Willis Family including rape charges

[Jellybean]

I can't even imagine how it would feel to have built a life with one's high school sweetheart, including lots of fabulously accomplished children over the span of decades together, only to be hit with something like this.

Blindsided is a good place to start, I suppose. I've been in a relationship with the same human for years (no kids, one feline Head of Household), and I keep coming back to the thought of the years of lies, half-truths, falsehoods, secrets that would be necessary in a case like this, and what that would do to a relationship, without even considering any of the rest of it. I'm not surprised that statement from Brenda was somewhat terse!

As impossibly painful as this must be, I hope that the reaction is not to double down under their restrictive beliefs. I hope that they are all able to explore their feelings about this situation with appropriately qualified therapists and with each other, and that any resulting questions or doubts about their lifestyle and beliefs can be discussed without fear of judgement. I hope that they are able to be open to kindness and support from outsiders too, though probably not immediately, given the media circus and invasion of privacy they're already enduring. 

How can the general public not see that holding such restrictive views about purity and sexuality just ends up distorting all concept of normal desires and behaviour?

How can TLC not see that they're doing no favours by selling these families as wholesome and virtuous? I can't tell you how much I wish the network would show their remorse by producing a series of programmes about the wide range of human sexual desires and behaviour, with an emphasis on safety and consent. They could cover power imbalances, grooming, how to say no assertively for young people (and those who haven't had adequate sex education), how to recognise predatory behaviour, and what to do about it. Can you imagine how much more good that would do than promoting the Duggar/Willis brand/pretence of vanilla-purity?

[Eclipse]

On September 13, 2016 at 7:06 PM, mstee said:

I wonder if the victim's testimony would be enough to convict? Or maybe the victim disclosed what had happened to another person around that time and they are willing to testify too? I'd imagine that by now there would be no physical evidence left of that crime. Maybe they feel like testimony alone is enough to bring him to trial. 

It can be. I don't practice in Tennessee but in my experience it can be. If the judge finds the victim credible, the victim's testimony can be enough. There doesn't have to be collaborating evidence. I sat in one case where the only evidence was the victim's testimony. The victim was now an older teen but the rape had happened when the child was a preteen. Some of the reasons the judge cited for finding the defendant guilty was that the victim was clear on the facts that happened including on what dates. The victim was consistent in what he/she told the cops, the prosecutor, testimony before the court, and cross examination. The victim could not be flustered during the cross-examination at all and never wavered. The impact the allegations had on the family as the assailant was a family member of the victim. 

I am purposely being unclear about the child's gender because I don't want any risk that the child could be identified.

5 hours ago, Dandruff said:

Read both the newschannel5 article and the fox17 article and am confused.  If Toby was told, years ago, to not go around his wife and biological children then (1) why did he remain with his wife and children, including being on a TV show, and (2) why would his wife be shocked and devastated by the revelation of events leading to his arrest?  What am I missing here?

That's not unusual in situations like this. It is common when someone is charged for abuse of a child to not be permitted to be near their own children if there is any perceived risk to them at all. I've seen cases were the perceived risk was the child of the accused was of a similar age and gender of the victim. Sometimes too the spouse asks for the order and the prosecutor asks the judge for it. Also, it could mean that they might be witnesses in the case. They may not be witnesses to the actual abuse but they may be called to testify to collaborate the defendant's whereabout on certain dates or how the victim acted around him or something. 

edited for riffles

[Snarkle Motion]

2 hours ago, MyMilkshake said:

My guess is that Brenda was totally blindsided by this information. 

I'm thinking that this may explain the hitchhiking. It's possible that she found out about the allegations when the investigation started at the end of August? And maybe she did not allow him on the bus and he was hitchhiking but he wanted to be close to the family? I could definitely see his control issues making him feel he needed to see his kids perform even if he was forbidden by Brenda or even told not to leave the state - not sure how it works during an investigation? 

So far I'm really impressed with Brenda's handling of the situation. Clear support for the investigation, canceling future performances, asking for privacy, removing all social media. Way better than the Duggars during their scandals. This gives me hope for her and the children. 

[refugee]

Wait. The rape was "at least 12 years ago" but this news article someone already posted in this thread says the abuse started in 2002. Am I reading this right?

http://abc7chicago.com/news/toby-willis-father-of-willis-clan-allegedly-raped-a-relative-court-records-say/1511639/

[McDoodleDoodleDoo]

22 minutes ago, refugee said:

Wait. The rape was "at least 12 years ago" but this news article someone already posted in this thread says the abuse started in 2002. Am I reading this right?

http://abc7chicago.com/news/toby-willis-father-of-willis-clan-allegedly-raped-a-relative-court-records-say/1511639/

I think it means that his grooming and such started 14 years ago leading up to the rape 12 years ago. That is how I understood it at least. 

[JesusPony]

Watching the show, you can see that Brenda is close to the kids and actually raises them instead of pawning them off to an older sibling. She has more to say about them as individuals, rather than that "precious flowers" nonsense J'ichelle is always spouting. She showed leadership in managing the business side of the band and making household decisions (calling around for mold cleaners and storage units when they had to move quickly.)  I could see her absolutely believing her child at her word over Toby's. There's a backbone there. She could manage without Toby.

I wonder about the finances, though. Toby got the settlement money from his family. Were he and Brenda managing a joint bank account? Considering, the victim is family, if he has legal bills, where will they get paid from? The money the band made over the years and may continue to make through record sales: Who controlled that money? Do the adult kids have financial autonomy? Was there a trust set up for the younger ones who performed?

Regarding the age of the victim and timeline, keep in mind that with this type of abuse in a family, there may have been multiple incidents over the years. The authorities will try to pin down an incident on a specific date or dates that the victim can remember and is sure about (i.e. the day before Christmas, near someone's birthday.) That may be why the news articles are interpreting the dates in different ways.

Anyway, my heart goes out to the victim, Brenda and the rest of the family. None of them will be unaffected. Even the youngest will understand that daddy did something bad and is not coming back.

[Exjw2015deed]

This of getting more and more shocking! But my props to Brenda for not taking the help meet direction. I'm seeing a statement that she said to ask the district attorney office about any questions about "Toby Willis". I'm happy her children are her only priority.

[justwatching]

Good question about the money for legal fees.  In a case like this, where the family has money, can they refuse to allow any of it to go toward his defense costs?

[Four is Enough]

This brings up interesting questions about Fundy Money. Does the wife in general have open access to money? If all the accounts, the house, etc., are in the husband's name, and he goes to jail, how is the family maintained?

 More specifically, does Brenda have access to Toby's money? He's the one who got money when his siblings died. He's always talked a great game about how important family is. But did he prepare his finances so that Brenda could get to the money if something, and I'm even talking about a heart attack or car wreck, not jail, happened to him?

Inquiring minds want to know this. Not just about Willises, but S'Mortons, Duggars, etc.

 

[Bethella]

8 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

This brings up interesting questions about Fundy Money. Does the wife in general have open access to money? If all the accounts, the house, etc., are in the husband's name, and he goes to jail, how is the family maintained?

 More specifically, does Brenda have access to Toby's money? He's the one who got money when his siblings died. He's always talked a great game about how important family is. But did he prepare his finances so that Brenda could get to the money if something, and I'm even talking about a heart attack or car wreck, not jail, happened to him?

Inquiring minds want to know this. Not just about Willises, but S'Mortons, Duggars, etc.

 

It probably varies by family. It's hard to be sure about bank accounts but when it comes to houses and real estate, both JB and Michelle are listed as owners. I vaguely remember that at least one of the Maxwell daughters-in-law is listed as an owner of the house but at least one is not. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the S'morton women are not listed as owners of their homes and do not have access to the bank accounts.

[Snarkle Motion]

On September 10, 2016 at 9:54 PM, Buzzard said:

Does anyone know how this fits into their timeline?  I've loosely followed the family. Where in time is this incident related to the "fire" that brought them to the various rental homes.  I always thought that was an odd story.

Even before Toby's arrest the house fire raised a lot of red flags for me. I hope I'm not crossing any lines or breaking any rules but something seemed off about the story. Not trying to accuse him of anything and hope that it's okay to voice the things that just seemed strange to me?

Like what are the chances that a family is affected by 2 terrible fire tragedies within an 11 year span? And for someone's who had family members die in a fire he seemed pretty nonchalant when discussing it. But maybe it truly was that he was grateful no one was hurt. 

It was also weird that the entire family was out of the house at a movie late at night (after 11 pm) and arrived home right after the fire department. Not out of the realm of possibility but fortunate that they missed it and sort of late for young children to be out. Toby also kept talking about all the photos they lost (10,000 photos) when their fire proof safe melted (that's a really hot fire!) but who thinks to put photos in a fireproof safe? For someone who had siblings die in a fire, who had the foresight to buy and store photos in a fireproof safe, you'd think he'd have taken other steps/precautions to prevent such a devastating fire. Also their talk of wanting to build several different structures  on the property (seperate recording studio, "public house", house for each of the kids) makes me wonder.

This fire supposedly occurred in December of 2004. So that would be right around the time of the alleged rape - not sure if it's in anyway connected but it's weird. He was also trying to launch his Olympic style wrestling league at this time and was working out of his home. I don't know if that had anything to do with it either but the fire delayed the launch of the league. Conveniently his media studio was largely spared despite the complete devastation to the rest of the house.

I couldn't find much info about the fire but did find a couple articles. I'm reluctant to post the links because the articles contain the home address and I'm not sure if that is acceptable to post?

 

[bucherwurm]

Interesting thoughts, Snarkle. I can't remember if they ever released a cause of fire? I mean, some families just have bad crap happen to them. I know a woman who has lost 2 husbands to death (and a son along with the first husband) and I don't think she was even that much into her 50s when the second husband passed.

[Kylolo]

I don't know how much of $100 million he got, but he may not have much left.  The house that burned was formerly Randy Travis' home so we know it wasn't cheap.  And I found this Chicago Tribune article talking about a wrestling league he founded/invested in that obviously failed.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-03-27/sports/0503270264_1_wrestling-sport-baptist-minister/3

[Snarkle Motion]

52 minutes ago, Kylolo said:

I don't know how much of $100 million he got, but he may not have much left.  The house that burned was formerly Randy Travis' home so we know it wasn't cheap.  And I found this Chicago Tribune article talking about a wrestling league he founded/invested in that obviously failed.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-03-27/sports/0503270264_1_wrestling-sport-baptist-minister/3

Did he get $100 million or was it split between his parents and 2 siblings? I read that the fire caused 3.5 million in damages but don't know if this covered by insurance. But I agree that between buying property, funding the wrestling leauge, and supporting 12 children and all the band equipment I'm not sure how much he has left. 

[Reading Rambo]

I hope this isn't massively improper speculation, and IANAL, but, I've seen so many cases of sexual abuse where dude wasn't even charged that they have to have some pretty compelling evidence. Add in the fact that someone used the word "relationship"-- which, I agree is reprehensible in this case as it was not a relationship-- and I'm guessing that they have something like letters that Toby wrote to the victim or a diary, etc. 

I'm also inclined to believe this because the date and age range is both broad and specific, if that makes any sense. 

[Eve]

The 100 million was definitely split between his parents and the other two siblings.  The 100 million payout was the largest in IL history at the time so it was a pretty big story.  

I just read this Daily Beast article that has more information.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/14/the-willis-clan-no-more-a-christian-family-band-comes-apart-amid-child-rape-allegations.html

It makes the hitchhiking thing more confusing as it seem he was trying to get to the show the family had scheduled.  Strange.

 

 

[imokit]

Clicked on the daily beast article, the first video embedded in it is a Joshly interview - the media are re linking TLC to their child molesters.

[Rowan]

On 9/12/2016 at 5:13 PM, JesusPony said:

Was the band performing in Kentucky around September 5/6? It sounds like he hitchhiked away from the family. 

No - on Sunday the 4th they were an opening act at my hometown county fair in NE Ohio. Earlier that week, it was announced that the Monday night event had to be canceled (don't remember the reason) so the Willis Clan would be performing, no tickets required. There was never anything about them not performing the night of Monday the 5th, so they were a good 5-6 hours away that night, depending where in Kentucky. 

Interestingly, a certain Republican presidential candidate stopped at the Fair the same day. I was glad to be back at home in the other corner of the state!

http://www.canfieldfair.com/events

 

[Kylolo]

1 hour ago, Eve said:

It makes the hitchhiking thing more confusing as it seem he was trying to get to the show the family had scheduled.  Strange.

 

 

I always assumed he was hitching to their show. I've been to Greenville and there's no reason to go there otherwise, nor is it right on a major artery through the state. 

[Chickenbutt]

From the dailybeast article.....

Their show, The Willis Family, ran for two seasons on TLC but was canceled in May. TLC said in a statement that it had thoroughly checked all the Willis family members prior to signing them to the show and were “shocked” at the news of Toby’s arrest.

Bolding mine......seems like TLC needs to be a little more thorough doncha think?

[Alisamer]

I had somehow managed not to hear about this family until this came up, wow! The little I've seen on Youtube added to the mom's official statement and the fact he apparently hitchhiked to their show makes me hopeful that maybe controlling dad is officially out of the picture regardless of what the end result of any trial will be. Maybe the family will pull together but not in a fundie way, and go on to live happy lives. I hope so.

Also, their music is totally not my style but I find I really like it. I hope the kids end up successful and independent, doing whatever they really enjoy.

[Exjw2015deed]

7 hours ago, Snarkle Motion said:

Even before Toby's arrest the house fire raised a lot of red flags for me. I hope I'm not crossing any lines or breaking any rules but something seemed off about the story. Not trying to accuse him of anything and hope that it's okay to voice the things that just seemed strange to me?

Like what are the chances that a family is affected by 2 terrible fire tragedies within an 11 year span? And for someone's who had family members die in a fire he seemed pretty nonchalant when discussing it. But maybe it truly was that he was grateful no one was hurt. 

It was also weird that the entire family was out of the house at a movie late at night (after 11 pm) and arrived home right after the fire department. Not out of the realm of possibility but fortunate that they missed it and sort of late for young children to be out. Toby also kept talking about all the photos they lost (10,000 photos) when their fire proof safe melted (that's a really hot fire!) but who thinks to put photos in a fireproof safe? For someone who had siblings die in a fire, who had the foresight to buy and store photos in a fireproof safe, you'd think he'd have taken other steps/precautions to prevent such a devastating fire. Also their talk of wanting to build several different structures  on the property (seperate recording studio, "public house", house for each of the kids) makes me wonder.

This fire supposedly occurred in December of 2004. So that would be right around the time of the alleged rape - not sure if it's in anyway connected but it's weird. He was also trying to launch his Olympic style wrestling league at this time and was working out of his home. I don't know if that had anything to do with it either but the fire delayed the launch of the league. Conveniently his media studio was largely spared despite the complete devastation to the rest of the house

 

I really don't like the whole speculation of who started a fire, because frankly I find it irrelevant. I'm sure like all fires, it was heavily investigated by insurance companies and fire fighters alike, since arson is a serious crime. 

To my knowledge, their home was on 150 acres of land which contained a barn and stable for horses. The horses and barn were completely fine. They lost the main house. They still own the land and keep their horses on that land and last season were discussing splitting the land up in parcels for each child. They also were discussing whether or not to spend their money rebuilding or keep their focus on the music.

Toby didn't discuss the fire much, it was more so Brenda. Brenda basically compared their fire to the fire her mother-in-law endured and said she couldn't be sad because they all had their lives. She seemed pretty strong about it, and that interview was the reason I liked Brenda the most out of every fundie mother. She seems to be busy savvy, head strong, and has always been honest

For example, their daughter Jeanette was born and weighed almost 15 pounds and was sick and has paralysis on one of her wrists. Brenda took full responsibility saying she ate unwell and basically was ignorant to gestational diabetes. Same as their decision to tie her tubes. 

Sources discussing the fire:

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/4/kellner-reality-show-family-with-12-children-has-q/

http://willisclanfans.com/willis-family-coming-home-s2-e1/

[faraway]

I didn't like Brenda much TBH, the way she pushed patriarchy in the show put me off. They repeated so many times, how it's difficult for the girls to plan ahead because their future husbands will make all the decisions (where to live, what to do). She has 9 daughters and she believed that was in their best interest? I think she also operated more under Toby's orders than what we saw...

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

9 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

From the dailybeast article.....

Their show, The Willis Family, ran for two seasons on TLC but was canceled in May. TLC said in a statement that it had thoroughly checked all the Willis family members prior to signing them to the show and were “shocked” at the news of Toby’s arrest.

Bolding mine......seems like TLC needs to be a little more thorough doncha think?

Heaven help me for defending TLC, but how on earth were they supposed to know that?

[Front Hugging Fiend]

9 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

From the dailybeast article.....

Their show, The Willis Family, ran for two seasons on TLC but was canceled in May. TLC said in a statement that it had thoroughly checked all the Willis family members prior to signing them to the show and were “shocked” at the news of Toby’s arrest.

Bolding mine......seems like TLC needs to be a little more thorough doncha think?

How are TLC supposed to discover these sorts of things before the police, though? Background checks only go so far. I get that TLC has shocking judge of character, but other than doing background checks and maybe hiring a private investigator, there's no way they could have truly known about any of this prior to either the victim making a statement or the police making it public.