Willis Family including rape charges

[imokit]

I'm agreeing with the others here who say that TLC shouldn't have been expected to know this.  This isn't Josh where the information was available.  Toby has historical allegations against him, the investigation wasn't started until August of this year.  There would have been no paper trail or evidence prior to that.

That said, maybe TLC should realise that they seem to have a dangerous type of people wanting to go on their shows. Josh, Toby, Mama June's bf etc.

[Tiny Bubbles]

Still so mystified by the hitchhiking.  

I mean, if I had to work/live together 100% in a small space with my beloved kids and husband it would get ugly pretty fast and there are only four of us, so I could totally understand some kind of heated words and the dad storming off saying I'll see you at the next venue, I need to cool off so I'll travel separately. 

But I guess I assumed they had a smaller vehicle with them for grocery runs, individual errands, whatever. Why on earth don't they??  Hitchhiking - really??

[livinginthelight]

Re: the hitchhiking. I think the charges must have been coming down the pike. I suspect Toby was interviewed earlier and told not to leave the state or be around his family and he probably essentially said "F*** that, I'm going" and told his family he'd meet them at the concert.

Pure speculation. But often they do interview a person before an arrest, and sometimes that person is told not to leave the area.

Second scenario, similar to the first: He was being interviewed by the police and decided to risk everything in an attempt to "get the story straight" with the family, in case any of them were asked to testify.

[Funwithfundies]

10 hours ago, Exjw2015deed said:

I really don't like the whole speculation of who started a fire, because frankly I find it irrelevant. I'm sure like all fires, it was heavily investigated by insurance companies and fire fighters alike, since arson is a serious crime. 

To my knowledge, their home was on 150 acres of land which contained a barn and stable for horses. The horses and barn were completely fine. They lost the main house. They still own the land and keep their horses on that land and last season were discussing splitting the land up in parcels for each child. They also were discussing whether or not to spend their money rebuilding or keep their focus on the music.

Toby didn't discuss the fire much, it was more so Brenda. Brenda basically compared their fire to the fire her mother-in-law endured and said she couldn't be sad because they all had their lives. She seemed pretty strong about it, and that interview was the reason I liked Brenda the most out of every fundie mother. She seems to be busy savvy, head strong, and has always been honest

For example, their daughter Jeanette was born and weighed almost 15 pounds and was sick and has paralysis on one of her wrists. Brenda took full responsibility saying she ate unwell and basically was ignorant to gestational diabetes. Same as their decision to tie her tubes. 

Sources discussing the fire:

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/4/kellner-reality-show-family-with-12-children-has-q/

http://willisclanfans.com/willis-family-coming-home-s2-e1/

Not being snarky, genuine question:. Brenda had her tubes tied, as in, they decided 12 was enough?

[faraway]

No, she her uterus ruptured during Jaeger's birth (at home). She was rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery and soon after got pregnant with Jada. I bet doctors loved her. Anyway since that was really risky Jada was an early C-section and she had her tubes tied. I think that was simply medical advice but at least they followed it. Still reckless all together.

[Snarkle Motion]

4 hours ago, Front Hugging Fiend said:

How are TLC supposed to discover these sorts of things before the police, though? Background checks only go so far. I get that TLC has shocking judge of character, but other than doing background checks and maybe hiring a private investigator, there's no way they could have truly known about any of this prior to either the victim making a statement or the police making it public.

I agree that TLC most likely could not have unearthed this with a background check but the fact that this is like their fourth instance of child sex abuse says something. Like maybe you shouldn't have kids on reality shows or you need extra protections/resources for these kids. And that anyone willing to exploit their children for fame and money likely already has some major problems. 

[Eve]

I agree that the hitchhiking was probably a result of being told not to leave the state or something of the sort. 

That said, deep down I hope Brenda found out the scope of the allegations and kicked him out (as much as you can kick someone out of a tour bus) which caused him to show up at the next place the band was scheduled to perform in some effort to change her mind,  Even though it's unlikely I hope she called the police (TBI) on him when he showed up. 

Fantasy aside I suspect the police knew he left TN, suspected he would show up in KY, and were waiting when he arrived at the venue.

[Front Hugging Fiend]

1 minute ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I agree that TLC most likely could not have unearthed this with a background check but the fact that this is like their fourth instance of child sex abuse says something. Like maybe you shouldn't have kids on reality shows or you need extra protections/resources for these kids. And that anyone willing to exploit their children for fame and money likely already has some major problems. 

Oh, I completely agree with you there. They've either been incredibly naive or just super ignorant up 'til this point.

(also I'm not pouncing on your reply, I was just already looking through my notifications when your reply popped up. Such a stalker, I am...)

[Dandruff]

41 minutes ago, Eve said:

I agree that the hitchhiking was probably a result of being told not to leave the state or something of the sort. 

That said, deep down I hope Brenda found out the scope of the allegations and kicked him out (as much as you can kick someone out of a tour bus) which caused him to show up at the next place the band was scheduled to perform in some effort to change her mind,  Even though it's unlikely I hope she called the police (TBI) on him when he showed up. 

Fantasy aside I suspect the police knew he left TN, suspected he would show up in KY, and were waiting when he arrived at the venue.

Makes sense to me.  I suspect Brenda and the kids did know about the allegations, which would explain why they went on with the show after Toby was arrested vs. flipping out and following him to the police station.  I also think Toby, as @livinginthelight said, may have wanted to try to "get the story straight" with the family while he thought he still had a chance.

[DaisyD]

You know, for a long time I suspected that the reason we always hear about the family values guys doing bad things was because everyone likes to see the high and mighty taken down a peg. I'm now fairly convinced that it's much more than that. I'm wondering if there's a psychological link between a person wanting to show the world what a good person they are and that person really being awful. Like they know they're a terrible person, but if they can convince others that they aren't, then they aren't. I just can't see any other reason for people with such skeletons in their closets to want so much attention. 

[Funwithfundies]

2 hours ago, faraway said:

No, she her uterus ruptured during Jaeger's birth (at home). She was rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery and soon after got pregnant with Jada. I bet doctors loved her. Anyway since that was really risky Jada was an early C-section and she had her tubes tied. I think that was simply medical advice but at least they followed it. Still reckless all together.

Thanks for the info - yikes.  My first was an emergency section - I tried a VBAC with my second, which also ended in an emergency C.  My very experienced OB was clearly a bit shaken after, as it turns out my first section scar was on the verge of rupturing during the second labor.  I was told no more VBACs (obviously), and to wait at least 18 months before trying to get pregnant again.  I ended up having one more baby (3 years after the second), this time by scheduled section.  Scary stuff...

[Bethella]

18 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

You know, for a long time I suspected that the reason we always hear about the family values guys doing bad things was because everyone likes to see the high and mighty taken down a peg. I'm now fairly convinced that it's much more than that. I'm wondering if there's a psychological link between a person wanting to show the world what a good person they are and that person really being awful. Like they know they're a terrible person, but if they can convince others that they aren't, then they aren't. I just can't see any other reason for people with such skeletons in their closets to want so much attention. 

I totally agree with this. You can see it on Facebook too- the couples that are constantly posting lovey-dovey type stuff seem to be the ones that crash and burn most spectacularly.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." William Shakespeare, Hamlet

[Snarkle Motion]

28 minutes ago, Bethella said:

I totally agree with this. You can see it on Facebook too- the couples that are constantly posting lovey-dovey type stuff seem to be the ones that crash and burn most spectacularly.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." William Shakespeare, Hamlet

I think there is actually research supporting the Facebook over posters and relationship posters. If you have to tell people how in love you are your probably not. 

I tend to also be suspicious of those that loudly protest lgbtq rights as it seems it's often a response to inner conflict about ones own sexuality. 

But in terms of those who proclaim to demonstrate family values I think there is more to it. I think there is an intersection of extreme control of one's children, believing women and children need to be submissive, and the superiority/entitlement of men. I see a lot of overlap in personality types that gravitate toward sex abuse and fundamentalism. Obviously not all fundamentalists but the control and power discrepancy I think makes it more pervasive. 

[Cleopatra7]

I think that "family values" types tend to think that threats to the nuclear family unit are the fault of "other people": LGBT people, single mothers (especially women of color), atheists, non-Christians, sex educators, etc. They don't take into account that the real threats to the family usually happen within the family unit, like abuse, incest, substance abuse, neglect. There is no "other" to blame in the Josh Duggar molestation case, for example. Josh spent his whole life in Gothardism and still molested his sister's and the other girl. So JB brushes it off and claims that a bunch of families he knows have the same problem. If many of the families the Duggars know have incest occurring and are turning a blind eye to it, they are not families that care about "family values." What they do care about is "family image." At least the Willises are getting out of the spotlight as they weather this crisis, although I wonder what they will do for income with so many kids.

[faraway]

@Cleopatra7 Couldn't agree more. I watched the Willis TV show after I saw them on AGT and was somehow intrigued. I thought they were talented but soon found their musical repertory a bit boring. Makes kind of sense since they didn't collaborate with other people and wrote, played and recorded everything by themselves in their hidden cabin. I soon found so many red flags and the more of the parents was shown, the less likable they appeared. The younger kids seemed sweet and quirky, the older kids started coming across as robots. Especially Jet & Jenny. Jair had his own struggles and Jessica appeared more real towards the end of the last season.

7 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I think that "family values" types tend to think that threats to the nuclear family unit are the fault of "other people": sex educators, etc.

This reminds me of a scene, where Toby takes the older kids to tour a college campus (See, we show our kids all the opportunities). Some students approach them with info because it's sex-ed week on campus and Toby later rambles how other people will definitely not teach his kids about that, they learn that at home. So ironic. 

[Exjw2015deed]

9 hours ago, Front Hugging Fiend said:

How are TLC supposed to discover these sorts of things before the police, though? Background checks only go so far. I get that TLC has shocking judge of character, but other than doing background checks and maybe hiring a private investigator, there's no way they could have truly known about any of this prior to either the victim making a statement or the police making it public.

Duh three words: Long Island Medium. They need to have her go inside homes and sage their houses and figure out what spirit is telling her. 

No, but it's kind of strange of the rotten luck these religious family shows have with scandal. Duck dynasty, Willis, duggars. I wonder what the Bates family will bring us. For the sake of the children involved I surely hope there is no more stories out there. But Jim Bob saying they knew a lot of families who went through similiar experiences still put chills down my spine. 

[MyMilkshake]

In addition to his other issues, Toby is probably a narcissist. Everything seems to be alll about him. His kids are very talented but instead of having that normal parental "Oh my God I am so proud of my kid!" moment that you get when you see your child  perform and they do awesome, I think Toby wants his children to excel so that he looks good to others. 

Brenda seems to have that genuine love and interest in her kids, even though I think she probably did defer to Toby over a lot of family decisions.

The whole thing is a mess and I feel bad for the kids. They really do have a lot of talent and I hope they do well in life.

[realist51]

5 hours ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I agree that TLC most likely could not have unearthed this with a background check but the fact that this is like their fourth instance of child sex abuse says something. Like maybe you shouldn't have kids on reality shows or you need extra protections/resources for these kids. And that anyone willing to exploit their children for fame and money likely already has some major problems. 

Exactly. TLC's model is to find parents who are willing to exploit their children for their own benefit--either ego gratification or money--and make a freak show out of them. Those beauty pageant moms are exploiting their kids, and they're doing it in a very disturbed way. The Duggars, the Bates parents, and the Willis parents are all exploiting their kids. It should come as no surprise, then, that the parents are willing to use their kids in other ways that are also destructive to the kids and serve only to gratify the parents. 

[Nikedagain?]

This might have been answered upthread and I am sorry if it has! I just saw this show maybe once and the dad triggered my skeeve radar. And at the time, my righteous indignation was better served on the Duggars. I mean, there's only so much to spare... (Can I get a witness?!!)

But I am unclear, when was the last fire that displaced this family? And the oldest daughter, she had stopped performing with the band, and was not living at home, correct? So she was not with the family at this last performance? 

Thanks! 

[Eve]

17 minutes ago, Nikedagain? said:

This might have been answered upthread and I am sorry if it has! I just saw this show maybe once and the dad triggered my skeeve radar. And at the time, my righteous indignation was better served on the Duggars. I mean, there's only so much to spare... (Can I get a witness?!!)

But I am unclear, when was the last fire that displaced this family? And the oldest daughter, she had stopped performing with the band, and was not living at home, correct? So she was not with the family at this last performance? 

Thanks! 

The fire that destroyed their home was way back in 2004.  They lived in rental homes until this summer when they announced they were going to live on their tour bus because of their busy performance schedule.  It's unclear where they are staying now. (Good for Brenda for removing their online/social media accounts and keeping her kids away from the spotlight right now.)

The oldest daughter hasn't been touring with them this summer and seemingly was not with them in KY.  She deleted all her social media as well.

[MorningMist]

39 minutes ago, Nikedagain? said:

This might have been answered upthread and I am sorry if it has! I just saw this show maybe once and the dad triggered my skeeve radar. And at the time, my righteous indignation was better served on the Duggars. I mean, there's only so much to spare... (Can I get a witness?!!)

But I am unclear, when was the last fire that displaced this family? And the oldest daughter, she had stopped performing with the band, and was not living at home, correct? So she was not with the family at this last performance? 

Thanks! 

Jess (the oldest) has taken time off from the band to concentrate on her songwriting and is trying to start up her own leather craft business on the side (the launch of that was supposed to be a few days ago but obviously she hasn't just yet). From the looks of it, it wasn't a free Jess situation where she up and left in the night but something she wanted to do for a while and had been talking to her family about it.

[Blup]

The mystery of the hitchhiking is already asked. However the TBI claims "[they] arrested the 46-year-old in Greenville, Kentucky, where he travelled in an effort to avoid law enforcement". That is a serious accusation and some pointed out that this is prove he is guilty. Therefor I tried to create a timeline and hope that the missing gaps can be filled in.

The investigation starts on August 29 according to the TBI. A few days earlier the Willis Clan (excluding Jessica?) was in Ireland. They had a show in Dublin on August 25. There Facebook page is now private, but I have a back-up from September 1 and some memories of the post just before that. There was a post on the airport going home (date?). Then there was a post (date?) about literary crashing in with there cousins. The photo showed the bus which it side against a telephone pole and a huge tractor pulling it free. It is already discussed that there newest rental was sold and that they decided to live in the bus for a while. My back-up starts with a photo of Jaeger and three of his cousins (September 1, 10:21 AM). If they didn't move it is in Michigan or Illinois.

From the back-up and public records I've the following shows: Sept. 4, 7:00 PM at Canfield County Fair (Canfield, OH), Sept. 8, 6:30 PM at UACCB (Batesville, AR) and Sept. 9, 7:00 PM (?) at Felix E. Martin Jr. Hall (Greenville, KY). The arrest took place there at 15:50 according to the arrest papers. According to an anonymous source Toby wasn't in Batesville. I can't (yet) find confirmation if he was present in Canfield. The TBI claims Toby hitchhiked on Sept. 5 or 6 from Shepperdsville (KY) to Greensville in an effort to avoid law enforcement. That means that Toby had to be aware that an investigation was underway. Did they interview him? Did they say he should stay away from his family? That he wasn't supposed to be traveling? If so it is wrong to go to Greensville, but I wouldn't call it fleeing if that location is well publicized.

Another question is did his family know about the investigation? On Sept. 8  10:47 AM the published a -- at that time -- funy photo with Jack handcuffed in front of a police car withe the caption "What happens in Batesville, stays in Batesville! ". One of the things I like about them is that they don't take themselves to seriously. But a day later that photo was used in an article about the arrest (can't find it anymore).

The press should have a serious talk with the TBI about the hitchhiking to avoid law enforcement claim.

[Blup]

On 15-9-2016 at 0:23 AM, faraway said:

I found something but I'm not sure if it's ok to post. It's a news article that's been taken down and changed. Possibly because it contains false information but maybe to protect the victim. 

I've also a back-up of the first version of this article. It is as of now still in Google's cache. They don't claim to have the court papers and I believe they copy/pasted and introduced errors -- that is journalism these days -- from what seems to be the original source. They claim to have the Tennessee court paperwork. That restricts the victims age to 9-12 years old relative  and also that it started in 2002 (14 years ago) while the crime investigated is from 2004 (12 years ago).

My question -- I'm from Europe so your ways are sometimes confusing -- are those court papers publicly accessible?  They seem to have a lot of information. Or do they have it illegally? Either way if the paperwork is really in there possession they practically narrowed the victim to a few persons. I assume that relative is broader (cousins?) but includes family? English is not my native language and in cases like this you have to be careful at what they mean locally. It could also explain the error above.

[realist51]

20 hours ago, Bethella said:

I totally agree with this. You can see it on Facebook too- the couples that are constantly posting lovey-dovey type stuff seem to be the ones that crash and burn most spectacularly.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." William Shakespeare, Hamlet

Ha, ha, I have a rule of thumb about couples that I call, ironically, the BABE rule. It is that, when a couple starts calling each other BABE, the relationship will be over within the year. It has never failed.

[Blup]

3 hours ago, Blup said:

The mystery of the hitchhiking is already asked. However the TBI claims "[they] arrested the 46-year-old in Greenville, Kentucky, where he travelled in an effort to avoid law enforcement". That is a serious accusation and some pointed out that this is prove he is guilty. Therefor I tried to create a timeline and hope that the missing gaps can be filled in.

I can fill in some more dates. The show at Canfield Fair on September 4 was announced mid July. The did also a last minute show (announced August 31) at the same location on September 5 at 5:30 PM. Can someone verify if Toby was present at both shows?

According to Google Maps it takes a car 6 hours to travel from Canfield Fair to Shepherdsville (KY). A bus takes longer. It seems to be on the logical route to Batesville. In the Facebook back-up there is a photo of Jedi at a Cracker Barrel (posted September 6 at 3:43 PM). There is one in Louisville which is nearby Shepherdsville. The TBI says September 5 or 6 but this information suggest that they separated on the 6th?

They appeared very early (September 8, 6:06 and 6:13 AM) on the BIG HITS Breakfast Show, Batesville (AR) to promote there show in the evening.