Religious kids "more selfish" according to Chicago U study - Merge

[AmazonGrace]

JMHO I don't think the age of the kids is a flaw in the study as long as all the groups (religious kids vs non-religious kids, kids from different countries) that are being compared are of similar age.  They have controlled for the effects of age and  the religion was a separate predictor. Yes, there is a certain degree of selfishness that is expected of small children (and most adults, :P) but you can still compare group A and group B and possibly notice some differences

A better article: http://news.uchicago.edu/article/2015/11/05/religious-upbringing-associated-less-altruism-study-finds

The whole study costs $30+ on line and I don't want to spend that much but I'd be interested in the methodology.

I don't find the results that surprising. 

I found it free here; i'm on the  home computer so I don't think I saw it because of any institute subscription.

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(15)01167-7.pdf

[nokidsmom]

I think it makes sense. 

 

Many religions (not all) teach people that they're special for being religious -- they're God's favorites. Christian children (because this is my realm of experience) are often told they are separate from "the world," they are taught that they are different from the heathen (who are going to hell), etc. So why would they care about those heathens anyway? There's also an element of "Pray for stuff you want," again, in some types of Christianity. Why should Joey donate money to the homeless when the homeless could just pray for what they need? And if the homeless' people aren't getting homes and their basic needs met, well, then, it's just God's will. 

 

When it comes to certain sects of Christianity, selfishness is deeply ingrained in the very fabric of the religion. 

 

Disclaimer: I am a Christian -- I'm not making blind accusations, nor am I implying or saying that all brands of Christianity are selfish. I can't speak for other religions because my knowledge of them is more superficial and not lived/experienced.

 

To the bolded: agree with this.   IME, I have found that people who are in groups that subscribe to the prosperity gospel or who are taught that they are God's special snowflakes and see anyone on the the outside, including fellow Christians, as godless heathens are particularly prone.    I get that this doesn't reflect all Christianity nor all groups within a particular Christian groups.

[Palimpsest]

JMHO I don't think the age of the kids is a flaw in the study as long as all the groups (religious kids vs non-religious kids, kids from different countries) that are being compared are of similar age.  They have controlled for the effects of age and  the religion was a separate predictor. Yes, there is a certain degree of selfishness that is expected of small children (and most adults, :P) but you can still compare group A and group B and possibly notice some differences

I found it free here; i'm on the  home computer so I don't think I saw it because of any institute subscription.

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(15)01167-7.pdf

Yes, exactly.  Thanks for the link and it does work for me too, also on a home computer.  I think it's probably better to read the whole article before jumping to conclusions about whether the researchers knew their child development or not.  Headlines can be very misleading.   But then I'm a nerd who likes reading research articles.

I thought the methodology was sound and the results were clear.  In this study "religiousness was inversely predictive of altruism and positively correlated with punitive tendencies."  Basically, contrary to popular opinion, religiousness is not necessarily for children to develop a sense of morality and justice.  Kids brought up by atheists can develop that too, possibly even better.

Well, it definitely has implications for further research, as they say in the business.

[Ennui]

I am of the belief that people are people, and a belief system can magnify either the good qualities or the bad qualities in any individual. There are so many variables in the worldview of every human that it kind of ends up being a crap shoot in the end. Based on their individual personality and temperament they will either do negative things and use a particular belief system as a justification for their behavior, or they will do positive things and rely on the belief system as a reinforcer for their choices. I don't believe that religion necessarily causes specific behavior choices regarding selfishness versus generosity.

[Deist woman]

I found this article interesting:

 

Study: Religious Kids Are Jerks

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/06/study-religious-kids-are-jerks.html

 

I did not find it at all surprising, though.  I've noticed the same kind of behavior in regards to high profile public figures and charity.  The ones that are the most outwardly professing of religion, seem to be the least charitable.  In their worldview, the question is not "do people need help", it is "do people deserve help".

[Jeebusismycopilot]

My problem with this article is how slanted it is from the beginning. It is definitely written with a bias and that's fine however it doesn't help that there are virtually no particulars in this article at all. No sources have been cited whatsoever other than the brief mention in the subheading, there's no information. I'm a stickler for sources when people start going on about "studies". What study? Who performed it, what controls were used. How was it done? Were other variables taken into account. A sample of 1,100 is not really big enough to come up with any meaningful data when there are so many variables. 

I decided to dig further and look up this particular study and it's findings.  The study was poorly done. There were far too many variables that were not controlled. No conclusion can be drawn from this that states "Religious Children are jerks" (as the title of the article suggests) Cultural upbringing, birth order, gender, country of origin, socioeconomic status, racial background etc all need to be taken into account in order to achieve a truly clean and objective result. 

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(15)01167-7

 

 

[Whoosh]

Great googly moogly!  First, I should say that this study was discussed in another thread already.  Perhaps the two threads can be merged.  

That said, I did glance through the study when the other thread was going and my quick assessment is that while the study does have a lot of strengths, there are indeed considerable methodological issues that need to be addressed.  Nothing wrong with that - it is a good first step and clearly has what it takes to be published in a reputable peer reviewed journal.  

Based on my quick read, I might conclude something along the lines that while there is preliminary evidence to suggest that religiosity is inversely correlated with measures of altruism, further research is needed to control for a variety of potential interceding variables.  While I could go into much further detail (and Palimpsest and others have discussed many things in the other thread), I will just say that the title of the article from The Daily Beast - "Study: Religious Kids are Jerks" - seems to be entirely out of left field.  

Anyway, I think this is a fascinating area of research and hope to see many future studies on this issue.  I can't necessarily say I would rely on The Daily Beast to help me understand the findings after reading this, however.
 

ETA - prior thread

[Deist woman]

I did look to see if this article was already the subject of another thread.  I did not think to look for the study itself.  So, I regret cluttering the forum unnecessarily.  That is a peeve of mine, too.

[Whoosh]

I did look to see if this article was already the subject of another thread.  I did not think to look for the study itself.  So, I regret cluttering the forum unnecessarily.  That is a peeve of mine, too.

I can totally see how it would be easy to miss.  I just wanted people to know it has been discussed - not hand slapping or whatever.  As a non-theist, I am actually very excited to see this topic being investigated and talked about.  I agree with you that the results are not surprising at all.