Do the Duggars' beliefs deflect the pressures of fame?

[apandaaries]

I do not think Jinger thinks she is worthless. I believe (thank you JTTH) that they are encouraged to be humble. But with the twisted belief system they have and the lack of parental leadership where it counts that Jinger (and in some areas you'll see Jana do something similar) do this because they think this is what being humble is about. (Humility/Humbleness being the apparent opposite of Pride which seems to be labeled a bad/sin in their world). So heaven forbid we take pride in what we do, we are supposed to be humble and it's coming off over the camera as I'm worthless.

This is so funny to me, mainly due to the number of hours spent grooming to perfection in that household. Such clear instructions: "Don't feel pride, but take a million selfies, wear lots of makeup, and ALWAYS do your hair." Makes sense.

I do think that something else is going on with Jinger, though. The episode at the rehearsal dinner was weird, but even stranger was that video of Jinger interviewed by Bin about how to best win souls via cheap pamphlets. She has been going on at length in a few places about how worthless she is without the blood and sacrifice of Jesus. It's disturbing. In some ways, I'm reminded of Cynthia Jeub. Or maybe it's just the upheaval of losing two sisters/partners in household work. Or the pressure of fame AND religion, internalized.

[clueliss]

Happily, I did not see that video. However what you have described is classic evangelical/fundie talk. All are unworthy without the blood of Christ. If you listen to it long enough it is downright disturbing and depressing.

[halcionne]

I saw the first bit of the video before I had to turn it off. I have a history of depression and got a strong dose of shame and SBC dogma in my childhood; I tend to lump the shame and the religion together, but I can see from other posters here that all baptists didn't get the shame issues I did. In any case, it's really easy for a person with self esteem problems to turn the gospel on its head and beat themselves up with it. FJers have noticed it with Jaynee Lockwood for years. I hope it's just sadness that her bestie is gone, and that she gets through it okay.

[fabkiwi06]

Realistically, the Duggar brand of "rebellion" is not going to register to the casual observer because it'll be adhering to normal societal behavior.

Look at the kids. Joseph is in college. JD might not be living at home. Joy wears a lot of leggings under her increasingly shorter skirts. Derek might be super religious but he believes in education and has been exposing Jill to "pop culture". There are cracks in the facade but instead of Lohan style meltdowns or whatever you want to call Mama June... these kids are just being normal.

[SassyPants]

IMO,it will be much harder for the adult Duggar kids to leave vs an average fundamentalist because the Duggars have money as well as family security at risk. The Duggar adult/kids/parents/parents- to- be might have just enough math skills to realize that toeing the line and mimicking known beliefs is easier than the unknown of finding a job and securing housing, and all that comes with physically and financially supporting an adult/family life, particularly when one has a severely limited education. Josh is probably seeing it crystal clear-

[Imrlgoddess]

There are moments where I feel bad for Josh and then moments I don't. He truly believed he would be able to follow his fathers footsteps and hit politics head on. It had to be disheartening to see how many around him had juris doctors, various bachelors and masters degrees, perhaps even in theology. He simply reached too high and I think he's realized it. His sisters won't have that same pressure, but the other young men will. The one saving grace in their world is the fact that they are still in the Southern Bible Belt. Even if the show goes off the air, they still have a norm that can be maintained. Fundies are everywhere, both more and less extreme than they are. I don't think they'd have to keep the kids that close to maintain a lot of the belief system, their natural surroundings will do that for them. I knew a family who sheltered their girls and were fairly devout SBC. When they moved from deep in the backwoods to the big city of Nashville, the girls did see some things mom and dad weren't ok with...but they have held to their family beliefs. There were very brief periods of exploration, but they ultimately returned right back to the way they were raised.

IMO the big difference that I saw in Cynthia Jeub vs the Duggar kids is that she was allowed an artistic license. She wrote. and wrote. and wrote. She was allowed to read just about anything. In allowing her those things, her father actually opened the door himself. He allowed her an imagination. The Duggar children might be exposed to social media, but to someone who is never allowed to read a fiction novel or allow their imagination to develop, it's all just a strange mess to them. I stopped off in Tennessee to visit my friend a few years back and we went to the mall. I mentioned that Hot Topic was one of my daughters favourite stores, she said she'd never thought to even go in there. If a subject is never introduced as either a taboo or a possibility, it's just...there. There's nothing to be curious about because there's no reason to be interested in it.

As many have mentioned, we'll see how it goes with the Lost Girls and the Howlers, they are the ones who have had the most lax training.

[doggie]

I think humility is one of the necessary things to counter fame. without it you start believing your fame is earned and true. there is not a humble bone in a dugger body.

[servants-heart]

This is so funny to me, mainly due to the number of hours spent grooming to perfection in that household. Such clear instructions: "Don't feel pride, but take a million selfies, wear lots of makeup, and ALWAYS do your hair." Makes sense.

I do think that something else is going on with Jinger, though. The episode at the rehearsal dinner was weird, but even stranger was that video of Jinger interviewed by Bin about how to best win souls via cheap pamphlets. She has been going on at length in a few places about how worthless she is without the blood and sacrifice of Jesus. It's disturbing. In some ways, I'm reminded of Cynthia Jeub. Or maybe it's just the upheaval of losing two sisters/partners in household work. Or the pressure of fame AND religion, internalized.

I totally agree. I found watching Jinger's speech at Jessa's wedding really disturbing. I understand she was upset about Jessa leaving the TTH, but her speech coupled with her interview with Ben... Something seems a bit off IMO :cry:

[Cleopatra7]

What happened to the Honey Boo Boo family and Jon & Kate won't happen to the Duggars simply because their family dynamics are so different. With Honey Boo Boo, Mama June let a man -- and a convicted sex offender who molested her eldest daughter at that -- come between her and everything else, including the show. The other men in June's life have also been losers, so I guess this shouldn't have come as such a surprise. In comparison, JB and Michelle seem obsessed with each other, which has its good and bad points. Given the strictures of Gothardism, I don't even think they would even be in a situation where they would be alone with a member of the opposite sex. However, like June, the Duggar parents have no problem with having their underage daughters associate with sex offenders (i.e, Gothard, possibly Doug Phillips is a Rapist), but didn't let the guy(s) in question move in with them.

From what I can tell, Jon and Kate Gosslein seem to have simply grown apart, and probably would have divorced, with or without cameras. They simply couldn't stand being around each other after a certain point. If anything, they probably would have divorced earlier from the stress of not having enough money from so many kids in a confined space without TLC money. Other than their multiples and their reality show, the Gossleins don't seem that different that millions of other couples who divorce. JB and Michelle are convinced that divorce is a sin, so I don't think they'd break up even if they did tire of each other. But unlike the Gossleins, the Duggars are essentially the same people they were when they first got married, because they haven't developed at all, whether intellectually or emotionally. It would be a problem if one of them wanted to lead a less legalistic life, but JB and Michelle probably think that Gothardism is what made them what they are today and have no reason to question anything.

The Duggar family's faith isn't keeping them grounded, it's keeping them emotionally stunted. They have a very limited view of the world and only interact with the media on their terms. You'll never see any of the Duggars get asked any serious questions about their beliefs or their political views, just cutesy puff pieces about babies and "seasons of life." The Duggars may not be racking up DUIs or making sex tapes, but there are other ways to act out than taking the Lindsey Lohan route. For all we know, there could be problems at the TTH that simply aren't aired because it doesn't fit in with the image the Duggars are trying to sell. Not all the kids are going to "keep sweet" and not all of their marriages, business endevours, etc. are going to pan out. JB and Michelle have been lucky so far that no one has publicly rebelled or gotten into trouble that can't be spun away, but their kids are all still young and you never know what life will throw at you.

[fabkiwi06]

We are so jaded as a society to expect our celebrities to have meltdowns and fall apart under the pressures of fame. It's really quite said...

I wait with the rest of you on which Duggar is gonna break first. Just as guilty here...

[servants-heart]

I'm just genuinely interested to know what goes on behind closed doors! I would be all over a tell-all, if it happens. As an atheist, I struggle to comprehend how people become so entrenched in such fundamentalism. I definitely think that the Duggar kids, after indoctrination their whole lives, will find it very difficult to break away and question the values and lifestyle they were raised with. I'm quite sympathetic towards them in that sense.

I just don't understand how someone like Josh, as a father, can look at Mack and readily limit her future simply because she's a girl. Same even goes for his sons! Don't parents only ever want the best for their kids? I get that they think the best for their kids is following Jesus (read: Gothard) and remaining true to what their parents taught them etc etc.. Still though, you'd think as they become parents themselves, the Duggar kids would really start to question how they should raise their own children? I think I'm tying myself in knots, but I just cannot understand!

Anyway, you would assume that because of their fame and exposure to the outside world now, at least a handful of the Duggar kids will break away eventually. I guess only time will tell.

[Cleopatra7]

I'm just genuinely interested to know what goes on behind closed doors! I would be all over a tell-all, if it happens. As an atheist, I struggle to comprehend how people become so entrenched in such fundamentalism. I definitely think that the Duggar kids, after indoctrination their whole lives, will find it very difficult to break away and question the values and lifestyle they were raised with. I'm quite sympathetic towards them in that sense.

I just don't understand how someone like Josh, as a father, can look at Mack and readily limit her future simply because she's a girl. Same even goes for his sons! Don't parents only ever want the best for their kids? I get that they think the best for their kids is following Jesus (read: Gothard) and remaining true to what their parents taught them etc etc.. Still though, you'd think as they become parents themselves, the Duggar kids would really start to question how they should raise their own children? I think I'm tying myself in knots, but I just cannot understand!

Anyway, you would assume that because of their fame and exposure to the outside world now, at least a handful of the Duggar kids will break away eventually. I guess only time will tell.

The very reason Gothard came to prominence back in the 1970s and 80s was because he promised parents that if they followed his rules, their children wouldn't rebel. By definition, if you follow Gothardism, you not only don't want your children to aspire to anything more than what you yourself have done, but you also don't want them to develop any interests that fall outside of the family/cult, because that would be "rebellion." It seems like many parents who adopt Gothardism, quiverfull, and Christian patriarchy think that they are doing better for their kids by protecting them from the evil secular world and its many vices and problems. They don't realize that they're not protecting them, but exposing them to an entirely different set of problems, and not giving them the tools to deal with the outside problems.

[Toothfairy]

Protecting them from what? I'd anything its harming them. You can't protect your child forever. Any parent that joins gothard probably needs mental help. The idea of control and promises plus making sure your children will be robots is disheartening for me. I think fundie parents probably have some sort of emotional trauma in their life to turn to a cult.

[SassyPants]

Protecting them from the secular world...while that might be appropriate for a 2 or 3 year old, ultimately, adults need to be able live in the real, secular world while navigating life and relationships. Another problem with the Duggar/Gothard approach is that it doesn't take into account the maturing brain and different developmental stages. While taking a 4 yo for a birthday kiddie train ride is delightful, probably the same would not be true for a 15 yo. Letting a 15 yo handle a jackknife is a bit different than the concenrs when handing a 6 and 7 yo knice- not in the Duggar house. Also, while the Duggars trusted their kids to care for and raise infants, handle weapons and operate power tools as youngsters, they never allowed them to develop appropriate relationships or handle tasks outside of their home. It appears JB and M were willing to let the kids do whatever task within the compound that made JB and M's lives easier, they never allowed any opportunity or chance for developing any independent interests outside the compound.

The hard part of parenting that involves changing the plan and goals as the child grows was totally missed/ignored by JB and M. The deficits could be hidden within the confines of the compound, but you really see the problems once the kids leave and are expected to make adult decisions without being told what to do.

[nolongerIFBx]

People have mentioned how many TV families -- most notably, the Gosselins and the Honey Boo Boo clan, though I'm sure there are others -- tend to implode spectacularly under the pressure of being in the spotlight. And this phenomenon isn't limited to reality TV families; child stars, in general, seem to have a tough time of it psychologically, and they tend to start showing signs of trouble even before they're out of their teens (see Judy Garland, Drew Barrymore, Lindsay Lohan, Mary-Kate Olsen, Macaulay Culkin).

But for the Duggars, things have been fairly placid, at least on the surface. None of the kids (and there are now eight who are 18 or older) have visibly rebelled against their parents in any significant way. And the show has been on the air almost seven years now. That's a long time for so many kids to be in the public eye without really departing from the fringy lifestyle they were raised in. It's remarkable, especially considering the low second-generation retention rates of cults in general.

I wonder sometimes if we can credit their religious beliefs for this apparent stability -- totally independent of the religion's truth value. Obviously, the kids are pretty protected from the temptations of alcohol and drugs that have led so many performers astray. But I think there's something more than that: maybe that this belief system's emphasis on abnegating the self ("yourself last," having a servant's heart, "I am nothing without Christ," etc.) in part offsets the intense self-focus that generally accompanies fame and courts depression? Or maybe just that the "hedge of protection" has created such mental barriers that the kids no longer have the independent agency they would need to make their own mistakes? Or that this lifestyle forces them to get really good at shoving their pain down instead of externalizing it? I'm curious to hear your thoughts as to why the kids' course has run so apparently smooth thus far. (Of course, huge caveat here--things could start to unravel in a very public way down the line.)

Do the Duggar children have the access to "their" money that the stars you listed above had? I think that can make a difference. I always think that child stars get into so much trouble because they literally have more money than they can spend. If JB holds the purse strings, he's keeping them from running out to buy a new car, the hottest clothes, and that along with chaperone rules keep them from blowing money on alcohol and drugs.

[RosyDaisy]

This is just my opinion. I believe JB has some kind of corporation, and all income from the show, book sales, speaking engagements, businesses, etc. for all of the Duggars goes into that account. If the adult Duggars received any money of their own, they would have the financial means to leave. This just my opinion though.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

This is just my opinion. I believe JB has some kind of corporation, and all income from the show, book sales, speaking engagements, businesses, etc. for all of the Duggars goes into that account. If the adult Duggars received any money of their own, they would have the financial means to leave. This just my opinion though.

It may be possible that the boys receive money, but he keeps the girls' money and only dispenses it in the form of a dowry?

[RosyDaisy]

I have a feeling that the corporation existed before TLC came a calling. Basically the family is a corporation and a corporation is easier to deal with than each individual.