Phil Robertson, Delivers Speech About Atheist Family

[BrownieMomma]

Ok, Phil. I'll play along for a couple of minutes with your sick example. I just have a few questions for you.

1. So, what happens to the atheist family members who are killed - the ones who may have lived their lives as good people and were cruelly murdered. Do you believe that they automatically go to hell?

2. Imagine these criminal assholes going to jail, finding religion and "getting saved". The atheist family members are still dead or completely devastated, but now the criminals are saying that everyone is totally depraved and we are all sinners, that salvation not through works and only through faith, and that they are not under the Law anymore because Jesus. Since Jesus died for their sins - including murder, rape and torture - do they get a ticket to heaven as soon as they become believers?

3. What does being an atheist have to do with believing that right and wrong exist?

Answering for Phil although that White's Ferry is not a Baptist church, I forget what it is but similar...

1. Being a good person is not enough. You have to believe in Jesus and accept Him as your Savior.

2. Yes, they get a ticket to Heaven if they become believers. They do not get to forego their earthly punishment for their crimes.

3. Only Christians have morals, they come from the Bible.

[socalrules]

First of all, using rape, especially rape of children, is never a good way to prove a point period. Especially when you are using it as a reason to believe in whatever God you believe in.

Second, to me the story reads as the perpetrators being Christian because it's almost trying to prove to the husband/father that there is no vengeance or justice unless it comes from God. So I would see it as a way for a delusional Christian to think this is a good way to prove that it is best to believe in God or your family will be victimized and there will be no justice.

I would bet that a lot of people thought they were going to see the wacky Duck Dynasty guy, not the repugnant Duck Dynasty guy I would guess most people have no idea actually exists.

[mrspicolli]

I read this quote today on tumblr and it seems to answer Phil's analogy perfectly....

[Delilah]

I read this quote today on tumblr and it seems to answer Phil's analogy perfectly....

I love this! :D

[ariel9]

So at first I thought that they were talking about the crazy old man from the 700 club but alas it is a different crazy. I also conclude that he has no idea what an atheist is. Just because someone does not believe in the existence of God it does not mean that they do not believe in right or wrong. Second of all I would be quite concerned as a sane person being in the room because he went in depth about possibly the worst thing that you could think of and him along with his supporters believe that the only thing stopping them from doing this is eternal damnation. :serious:

[alwayscaffeinated]

He's just.... vile. That's all I can say. Disgusting and vile.

[KittenMitten]

Well, I've been thinking about this all day and totally agree with the other posters and would have said so, but the day was busy.

Anyway, after dinner. I waited until the meal was over, unlike Mr Robertson, to bring up this with my son and husband. It opened the door to a great conversation and good teachable moments for my son. We discussed how inaccurate the definition of Atheist. We discussed that our family is Atheist, and we believe in right and wrong and have empathy. My son then got angry at all Christians until he realized that most of his Christian family and friends are good people and it was wrong of him to make such unfair and inaccurate generalizations. It then moved to the discussion of the horror of rape and ended up discussing both sides of the death penelty. I guess it was a grim discussion, but also helped my son expand his thoughts/beliefs.

Quite ironic, Mr Robertson, that your hateful rant opened the door in this Atheist family for revisiting discussions of very important issues and my Atheist son grew further in his knowledge of right and wrong and an increased understanding of empathy. Thank you very much.

[Howl]

I can only imagine the people who invited a Christian celebrity to a prayer breakfast (and probably paid dearly for it) and were so excited to hear his uplifting Christian message and then he opened his mouth and this came out. Sort of a Borat moment.

I am sure there were people there who were just shocked and disgusted, which is why we know what was said. My likely scenario is that some disgruntled attendee left there and called the media. I could be wrong, though, and Phil's PR machine sent it out to share his wisdom with the world.

[ghost]

Well, I've been thinking about this all day and totally agree with the other posters and would have said so, but the day was busy.

Anyway, after dinner. I waited until the meal was over, unlike Mr Robertson, to bring up this with my son and husband. It opened the door to a great conversation and good teachable moments for my son. We discussed how inaccurate the definition of Atheist. We discussed that our family is Atheist, and we believe in right and wrong and have empathy. My son then got angry at all Christians until he realized that most of his Christian family and friends are good people and it was wrong of him to make such unfair and inaccurate generalizations. It then moved to the discussion of the horror of rape and ended up discussing both sides of the death penelty. I guess it was a grim discussion, but also helped my son expand his thoughts/beliefs.

Quite ironic, Mr Robertson, that your hateful rant opened the door in this Atheist family for revisiting discussions of very important issues and my Atheist son grew further in his knowledge of right and wrong and an increased understanding of empathy. Thank you very much.

Thank you for sharing this :u-rock:

[circularlogic]

What the what? Who in the world thinks up these things? This is a depraved mind at work. I couldn't have come up with this sick of a scenario if I tried...and I don't have any god on my side. Geez, I'm really starting to wonder about the general mental health of most Christians.

[feministxtian]

Geez, I'm really starting to wonder about the general mental health of most Christians.

I AM a Christian and I wonder...I really hate the thinking that non-Christians automatically live some sort of depraved, immoral life. Some of the most moral people I know are NOT Christians...

[apple1]

Answering for Phil although that White's Ferry is not a Baptist church, I forget what it is but similar...

I guess I missed something in this thread. Not sure where the mention of "Baptist" comes from, but -

White's Ferry (Robertson's home church) is Church of Christ, and Robertson has long been clear that he is Church of Christ.

[BrownieMomma]

I guess I missed something in this thread. Not sure where the mention of "Baptist" comes from, but -

White's Ferry (Robertson's home church) is Church of Christ, and Robertson has long been clear that he is Church of Christ.

Oh sorry, I should have been more clear.

I post a lot about my years as a Southern Baptist. I know it very well, I can practically spot a Southern Baptist just by looking at them.. Phil is not Baptist but from all I see of the Robertson's, their mindset is very similar.

[KittenMitten]

Thank you for sharing this :u-rock:

Well, you are welcome for sharing. My son it the one who rocks. He just wanted to understand and kept asking question until he understood.

[BrownieMomma]

Well, you are welcome for sharing. My son it the one who rocks. He just wanted to understand and kept asking question until he understood.

Curiosity is normal. Being able to ask your parents and get genuine answers is amazing. Doubt any of the Duggar kids enjoy that kind of relationship with the headship and his helpmeet.

[Maggie Mae]

Matt Walsh responded on FB. He's not very smart.

http://imgur.com/a/7ncKz

I'm sharing this because of the discussion about atheism, not because of Phil Robertson. Personally, I've never seen one single episode of Ducky Dynasty, don't care to, and though I respect his views on traditional marriage and abortion, I don't think conservatives should hoist him up as some kind of spokesman for the cause. He's a reality TV personality, which is fine, but he ain't exactly William F. Buckley.

In any case, now some atheists are upset because he illustrated the problem of atheistic moral relativism by imagining a scenario where an atheist's wife and daughters are raped and killed. The point -- though he didn't do a great job of explaining it -- is that anyone would innately recognize the evil of this act, yet nothing can be truly evil if there is no God, so this presents a problem for atheists.

He could have used a less graphic example, but he is correct nonetheless.

Atheists typically struggle to understand this argument. They think we're accusing them of being in favor of raping and killing. Obviously that isn't the case (though some famous atheists certainly were pro-murder and rape, particularly guys like Hitler and Pol Pot and many of the other 20th century mass killers).

The argument is that, in a world with no God -- a world where we are nothing but random mutations, born of chaos and nothingness, and destined to soon return to that eternal void -- concepts like "good" and "evil" are arbitrary and therefore meaningless.

Yes, an atheist can oppose murder because it's illegal, but is that what makes it wrong? I think most people would argue that murder is illegal (except for abortion, of course) because it is wrong, not that it's wrong because it's illegal.

So why else might an atheist be against it? Because it hurts another person? Fine, but what is a person, and why does it matter if you hurt it?

A person, for an atheist, is just a collection of skin and bones. A person is material. Take out the soul, the conscience, and the mind, and what, exactly, makes a person more significant than a tree or a banana or a bundle of sticks? Yes, we have complex brains and we can use the internet and talk about the weather, but how exactly does that grant us any kind of status above any other creature or object in the universe. The whole point of being a materialist is that all things are just material.

For billions of years, things existed without you, then you came along, and you exist for a span of time that, in the grand scheme, isn't much longer than a fruit fly, and once you die you will decay and be nothing. So why does it matter what you do or who you do it to? We are not significant, aside from whatever arbitrary significance we ascribe to ourselves.

The logical conclusion of materialism and atheism, then, is that all morality is random and rooted in nothing but our emotional convictions. Therefore, all morality is really nothing. And if morality is nothing, then, really, there is nothing actually "wrong" with rape and murder, aside from how it infringes on man made codes of conduct.

We know this is the conclusion of atheism, yet most atheists refuse to come to this conclusion, and that's a good thing. Now we can only hope that they'll stop and ask themselves why they're so afraid to take their views to their logical conclusions. Could it be because the conclusion isn't logical, and neither is atheism?

[formergothardite]

I think most people would argue that murder is illegal (except for abortion, of course) because it is wrong, not that it's wrong because it's illegal

That doesn't even make sense. I would guess most people would say murder is wrong and illegal because it hurts another person.

Is it logical to say that the only reason a person doesn't go around killing, raping and stealing is because of God? And that without God they would do those things? That sounds pretty illogical to me because I suspect that most people would not kill/rape/steal even if they didn't have God and that the people who are going to kill/rape/steal would do so even if they did have God.

[VelociRapture]

So at first I thought that they were talking about the crazy old man from the 700 club but alas it is a different crazy. I also conclude that he has no idea what an atheist is. Just because someone does not believe in the existence of God it does not mean that they do not believe in right or wrong. Second of all I would be quite concerned as a sane person being in the room because he went in depth about possibly the worst thing that you could think of and him along with his supporters believe that the only thing stopping them from doing this is eternal damnation. :serious:

The scary thing is that he does know what Atheists believe and he does believe that only God can teach morals. To him it's very much an all or nothing topic - believers are good people who will be saved and non-believers are bad people who will be tormented for eternity. In his mind, belief in God is the only reason why we all aren't running around constantly killing, raping, and stealing.

[VelociRapture]

That doesn't even make sense. I would guess most people would say murder is wrong and illegal because it hurts another person.

Is it logical to say that the only reason a person doesn't go around killing, raping and stealing is because of God? And that without God they would do those things? That sounds pretty illogical to me because I suspect that most people would not kill/rape/steal even if they didn't have God and that the people who are going to kill/rape/steal would do so even if they did have God.

The part you quoted makes sense to me (except the abortion part - different topic). The part right before that didn't - the part before implies that Atheists only oppose murder because it's illegal not because it's morally wrong. Was that the part that didn't make sense to you too or did I miss something?

[toejamflipflop]

This guy gets more bizarre every time he opens his mouth.

[formergothardite]

I accidently left off the first part of that quote. :embarrassed: But yes, he seems to think that atheist only oppose murder because it is illegal and if it suddenly wasn't illegal we would be running around screaming "Yeah murder!" Most people(religious and non-religious) think that murder is wrong and illegal because it is harming another person, they don't need God to realize tha and they would know it without any sort of a God.

[Paige1]

The majority of the US considers themselves religious (most are some branch of Christianity) and we sure have a lot of people murdering and raping people among other terrible crimes against children etc... Including beating children in the name of God. The majority of the prison population is religious. So Phil, tell us again how God makes people have morals and without him our country/world would be doing all these crazy immoral things. The proof is in the pudding :nenner:

Also, I agree it is scary that he basically implies that he and every Christian he knows only don't do terrible things because, ya know, Jesus... What a crazy bastard

[EmmieJ]

Phil Robertson is a sick creep. What sort of person thinks up this type of scenario, and thinks it is appropriate for a general audience? The guy has some serious mental issues. I hope the show gets cancelled soon. I hear the ratings have gone down quite a bit, and I'm not surprised. His kids are a bunch of phoneys too, but that's their business. If people want to buy the baloney they are selling, I can't really blame them for putting on a facade and milking their viewers for every penny they can.

[KittenMitten]

Curiosity is normal. Being able to ask your parents and get genuine answers is amazing. Doubt any of the Duggar kids enjoy that kind of relationship with the headship and his helpmeet.

The great thing is to watch my son develop critical thinking and just grow intellectually and emotionally. That conversation was a JOY (the real joy, not the Jesus one). It is so stimulating and refreshing. I can kinda understand where the Fundamentalists come from a bit, with letting kids develop their own thoughts and opinions. A few months ago we had a discussion about gun control. I'm pretty ok with the 2nd Amendment, although I am against assault rifles and pro background check, and other safety measures. Anyway, the kid stood up and went all NRA on us. Bit my lip, bit my tongue and tried to find duct tape to close my mouth. I kept telling my self that he has a right to his own opinion. I calmly asked where he got his ideas from. Apparently from Family Guy, which he did not realize satire. We calmly explained our point of view about assault rifles and background checks and that Family Guy was satire. I am so proud that I did not shout, "What, are you nuts", with an hour long lecture. It ended up being quite funny. Eventually.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Answering for Phil although that White's Ferry is not a Baptist church, I forget what it is but similar...

1. Being a good person is not enough. You have to believe in Jesus and accept Him as your Savior.

2. Yes, they get a ticket to Heaven if they become believers. They do not get to forego their earthly punishment for their crimes.

3. Only Christians have morals, they come from the Bible.

Thanks for playing along. I've got some more questions/comments:

If it is impossible for an atheist to have morals, why would he assume that an atheist would be horrified by the story?

Would rape, murder and torture be okay if you believed that God approved? Did their Christianity stop Crusuders from murdering, raping and pillaging?

If I believe that right and wrong objectively exist, and that things like rape and murder are wrong, why would I think that there is anything moral about a religious teaching that faith in Jesus is more important than actual moral conduct? Isn't there something totally fucked up about believing that the victims would go to hell and the murderers would go to heaven?

If earthly punishment is the only lasting consequence for a murderer who "finds Jesus", isn't that exactly the same thing that he thinks keeps atheists in line?