AP Classes "Unpatriotic"

[Toothfairy]

This crap is happening in our school district, as well. A very conservative group of people were elected to our school board and came up with a brilliant plan ensure that AP History is taught only from a patriotic point of view. Both parents and teachers are outraged and have staged a few protests. I did read something else though that I thought was equally stupid. Apparently, our state universities have just adopted an approach on the opposite extreme. They want things like The Holocaust and other historical tragedies, to be taught, without mentioning who the countries are that participated, UNLESS it was The United States. Whatever happened to an an objective, truthful approach? That's what I got, at least by college. BTW, I read Howard Zinn, in college, too. Love that book!

Omg. Parents these days. What's the point if options or views if we can't see both sides. There's no argument with one sided views.

[freejingerbeth]

Omg. Parents these days. What's the point if options or views if we can't see both sides. There's no argument with one sided views.

Sorry. I'm confused by what you meant. The parents didn't come up with either plan. The universities and local school board did.

[Arete]

And this is where I get on my knees and thank God I was born, raised, and stayed in a blue state where we do not debate the utility OR patriotism of AP courses.

[flubber]

Just a quick question from a 'non American'.

How long has a non-biased history of Vietnam been taught in American schools? I learnt about it 19 odd years ago, in NZ. We were taught it was the only war (at the time) that the US had ever lost, but at that time I was learning about it the US still didn't acknowledge that it was a war they had lost. Is it still the same? I think it was a semantics thing i.e The US didn't actually acknowledge it was a way so therefore they couldn't lose it (from memory).

Sorry for the thread derail.

On topic - anyone who only wants to paint a rosy picture of a countries history has to have their head buried in the sand. But then these are the same people how think that we hung out with the dinosaurs

[jaelh]

Apparently, our state universities have just adopted an approach on the opposite extreme. They want things like The Holocaust and other historical tragedies, to be taught, without mentioning who the countries are that participated, UNLESS it was The United States.

Have you get any more information about this? Because you know. It sounds a lot like bullshit.

Wherever you read that from sounds like they got whatever they have their panties in a bunch about all wrong. Simply put: you can't teach 'history' without teaching context; without talking about participant motivations etc. Even if you're just doing 'checklist teaching', you need to provide who, when, what. Eg: You can't talk about the Rwandan genocide without mentioning Rwanda; you can't talk about the Holocaust without understanding the historical position of Jews in Europe, Germany and WWI and so on.. No educational institution is going to promulgate this rule - even ideologically driven ones wouldn't do it.

[Arete]

Over 20 years ago I learned we lost the Vietnam War in school. However, the US does not have a national ciriculum, so it can't be said everyone learns the same thing.

For the record, I also learned about Watergate, Segregation and Jim Crow, race riots, the US feminist movement, the Trail of Tears and the Japsnese American Interments in school. Good ol' public school in a middle class school district. Neither I nor any of my classmates denounce the US or carry out terrorist actions against it despite not having our US history sugar coated.

[PokaDot]

How long has a non-biased history of Vietnam been taught in American schools? I learnt about it 19 odd years ago, in NZ. We were taught it was the only war (at the time) that the US had ever lost, but at that time I was learning about it the US still didn't acknowledge that it was a war they had lost. Is it still the same? I think it was a semantics thing i.e The US didn't actually acknowledge it was a way so therefore they couldn't lose it (from memory).

To be honest, I don't think I was taught that we lost the Vietnam war. But I also don't really remember much from my US history class because I think we ran out of time and skipped a lot of recent US history. I didn't take it in college because I took the AP test, got a 3 and never looked back (personally not a history fan, math and science were/are my thing).

I do, however, remember some jokes about how we "declared victory and left", or something like that.

[jaelh]

Eh, history, I'm not sure learning that the American's lost that war is (necessarily) the lesson to be taken from that particular conflict. But anyway..

FWIW: I spent a number of years in VN. The "American War" there is taught as being the product US aggression. Conveniently, this meant there was no need to analyse the underlying civil conflict in any meaningful way.

Teaching a political narrative of history is pretty much universal.

[IronicallyMaeve]

On my university's calendar, it is Indigenous People's Day.

We have Indigenous Peoples' Week. We still have classes, but there are a lot of events that honor (mostly local) tribes. We also get Cesar Chavez day off.

[cindyluvs24]

Jesus H. Christ. How many of these right wing yahoos even took AP History in high school? Anyone? No? Than STFU and don't try to ruin it just because you couldn't hack analysis and critical thinking. We also learned to write scary term papers - one a month - to get us ready for college. It was hard and I hated the demands on my time and my 16-yr-old brain. The only thing I remember from the exam is writing an essay about John Brown's raid.

[Toothfairy]

You know what's next AP science classes. Let's ban them too.

[Toothfairy]

Sorry. I'm confused by what you meant. The parents didn't come up with either plan. The universities and local school board did.

Sorry I read it wrong. Either way it's still stupid

[crazyforkate]

Kinda curious, what were you guys taught about the war of 1812? Most Americans I meet seem convinced they won, most Canadians think we won or tied, and the historical consensus seems to be somewhere in the middle. Generally conversations about it never go anywhere and end in "Well we burned down (the White House/Toronto)", so...

Also, is it just me, or is it MORE patriotic to talk about the negative aspects of your country? At least then you have the chance to change things. As far as I can tell, people who sit back and go "Bla bla my land is great" aren't doing anything for their country at all. Go have your circle jerk, we'll be over here exercising greatness.

[morri]

What does AP stand for?

As a German it is obviously impossible to teach positive history. unless you are a big Nazi People who a big patriots are usually whitist too.

[Toothfairy]

What does AP stand for?

As a German it is obviously impossible to teach positive history. unless you are a big Nazi People who a big patriots are usually whitist too.

Advanced Placement

[Arete]

Kinda curious, what were you guys taught about the war of 1812? Most Americans I meet seem convinced they won, most Canadians think we won or tied, and the historical consensus seems to be somewhere in the middle. Generally conversations about it never go anywhere and end in "Well we burned down (the White House/Toronto)", so...

Also, is it just me, or is it MORE patriotic to talk about the negative aspects of your country? At least then you have the chance to change things. As far as I can tell, people who sit back and go "Bla bla my land is great" aren't doing anything for their country at all. Go have your circle jerk, we'll be over here exercising greatness.

In my school district growing up the war of 1812 was taught as a "draw".

[SnazzyNazzy]

I wonder what their stance is on world history. I mean there was The Crusades, The Thirty Years war, The French Wars of Religion. They were all religious wars featuring Christians (including Protestants and Roman Catholics). Do they agree with them? Do they go "oops our bad"?

[Arete]

I wonder what their stance is on world history. I mean there was The Crusades, The Thirty Years war, The French Wars of Religion. They were all religious wars featuring Christians (including Protestants and Roman Catholics). Do they agree with them? Do they go "oops our bad"?

I suspect that all those would be the exclusive fault of the Catholics, who we all know are not REAL Christians, amirite?

[Becket70]

Just a quick question from a 'non American'.

How long has a non-biased history of Vietnam been taught in American schools? I learnt about it 19 odd years ago, in NZ. We were taught it was the only war (at the time) that the US had ever lost, but at that time I was learning about it the US still didn't acknowledge that it was a war they had lost. Is it still the same? I think it was a semantics thing i.e The US didn't actually acknowledge it was a way so therefore they couldn't lose it (from memory).

Sorry for the thread derail.

On topic - anyone who only wants to paint a rosy picture of a countries history has to have their head buried in the sand. But then these are the same people how think that we hung out with the dinosaurs

I am no expert but I believe the ultra-conservative view of Vietnam is that we would have won if we had not pulled out. Since we already had lost over 55,000 soldiers, one wonders how many more would have died if we had stayed another 5-10 years. It's the same view as staying in Iraq and Afghanistan....we would have won if only we had stayed. I find that particularly ridiculous regarding Afghanistan. Eisenhower warned us about the Military-Industrial Complex and I think he was right on the money. (pun intended)

[Cheetah]

What does AP stand for?

As a German it is obviously impossible to teach positive history. unless you are a big Nazi People who a big patriots are usually whitist too.

AP is Advanced Placement. They are high school courses that are taught at a 1st year university level. At the end of the year (May) the kids take the nationally-given AP tests and depending on their score and on what university they go to, they can receive college credit or at least place out of the 1st year courses. These classes are more rigorous than the general high school curriculum and students who take them are seen as more academic (it gives you an 'up' in selective college admissions). Not every high school offers them, though.

[Lady Grass Lake]

Saw a news piece on a "Die In" at Michigan State. Saw Dead Students checking their cell phones. Guess text messages and tweets are more importantthan the statement you are trying to make.

[GeoBQn]

The one time I remember my history class devoting a lot of time to the Vietnam War was in 3rd grade when we did a unit on the 1960's. My principal was a Vietnam vet, and he came in to talk about his experience. (I remember he hid behind a blackboard in his fatigues as we came in from another class. We didn't know he was there until he tossed a pencil out into the crowd and shouted BOOM!) His stance was, "We didn't lose. We left."

Otherwise, we didn't devote a lot of time on it, but not because of ideological reasons. Anything post-WWII got the short shrift at the end of the year as the teacher suddenly realized we were falling behind.

[lawlifelgbt]

I actually remember spending a ton of time on distinct time periods, depending on the year of high school:

Freshman year was the Civil War era, IIRC.

Sophomore year was the 1920s/Great Depression.

Junior year was the 1960s especially (the teachers knew a lot of our parents were baby boomers, so we did a lot of fun projects, like bringing in their favorite songs from when they were our age).

Senior year wasn't really history, but poli sci/civics (focused more on how and why the government is structured, checks and balances- any history related, like studying the context the Constitution was written in, and looking at the historical context of major Supreme Court decisions).

[Becket70]

It is a shame if Vietnam is given short shrift. I was old enough to participate in the various "Moratoriums" against the war. It was a brilliant example of the people making their voice heard. These protests went on week after week and involved millions of people all over the nation. I don't think we will see anything like it again, now that there is social media. Yes, there were some trouble-makers in the crowds but basically they were young people who, facing a draft, did not want US involvement in something that did not involve an attack on our country. (they did not buy the Domino Theory that supposedly justified the war) Maybe if the draft existed today we would see more protests against "boots on the ground".

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Anything post-WWII got the short shrift at the end of the year as the teacher suddenly realized we were falling behind.

That's how it always was at my school in the 90s. You'd think the teachers could have communicated a little so we could have progressed past the 1940s at some point.