Neil deGrasse Tyson pisses off conservative Christians

[16strong]

with this tweet:

On this day long ago, a child was born who, by age 30, would transform the world. Happy Birthday Isaac Newton b. Dec. 25, 1642.

And this one:

This year, what do all the world's Muslims and Jews call December 25th? Thursday.

:lol:

http://nypost.com/2014/12/26/astrophysi ... mas-tweet/

[halcionne]

<---- approves of this thread

[Georgiana]

To be honest, I find evangelical anti-theists as annoying as evangelical theists of any denomination.

It's cool to believe (or not believe) whatever you want. It's cool to engage in respectful discussions about what you do or do not believe.

But it's not ok to mock other people's beliefs/holidays. It's not ok to belligerently force your stances on other people.

I'm a fan of his and not particularly religious, but I felt this was rude. And if you're going to be like this, you need to make very sure you're an equal opportunity asshole and not single out one group. South Park takes PLENTY of worse shots at Christianity, but they do it to EVERYONE. Hannukah was last week, but there were no tweets about that.

What this does is just give more fuel to the conservative Christian "woe is us, we're so persecuted" garbage.

[halcionne]

Eh, I thought it was cute. Poking fun at Chanukah would be antisemitic. And as far as adding fuel to Christian extremists' persecution complex, they will claim persecution no matter what.

[DaffyDill]

I love Neil deGrasse Tyson :D

That is all.

[Coco]

The first one is brilliant. It pokes fun at Christmas without being overly nasty but really pays homage to someone everyone can appreciate regardless of their personal beliefs. Science - yay! :lol:

And it's hilarious that Jesus and Newton were both NOT born on the 25th.

eta: Well, Newton kind of was, but England's calendars were effed up back then and 10 days behind everyone else and i'm getting tired thinking about it, lol.

thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/25/neil-degrasse-tyson-trolls-christians-on-christmas.html

[Peas n carrots]

What is mocking Christianity in NDT's tweets? One says Sir Isaac Newton was born on December 25th and he changed the world. The second one states a fact. Neither are insulting...just facts.

[church_of_dog]

What is mocking Christianity in NDT's tweets? One says Sir Isaac Newton was born on December 25th and he changed the world. The second one states a fact. Neither are insulting...just facts.

I don't see the insult either. To me both phrases are about reminding people that their view is not the only view.

In fact the second line is nearly identical to one I see all the time re the USA:

"What does Australia, Bolivia, and China [or any random handful of country names] call July 4th?"

Answer: "Friday."

I don't see anything insulting to that either -- just a reminder that the USA isn't the whole world, just a subset. Why would a religion find it upsetting to be reminded they are only a subset of the world? I'm pretty sure they all already know that...

[JenniferJuniper]

But it's not ok to mock other people's beliefs/holidays. It's not ok to belligerently force your stances on other people.

I'm a fan of his and not particularly religious, but I felt this was rude. And if you're going to be like this, you need to make very sure you're an equal opportunity asshole and not single out one group.

Are you saying every little tweet that has a little fun with Christian beliefs must also simultaneously do the same with all other religious beliefs in order to be acceptable to you?

There was nothing forceful or belligerent about these tweets. They may not be particularly funny, but I don't see them as rude at all. Tyson was doing what he always does - pointing out that the "beliefs" held by hundreds of millions of people are not supported by scientific truths.

The Biblical stories of Jesus being born to a virgin (on December 25) and eventually rising from the dead cannot be true as such happenings would violate natural law. Same goes for any miracles ascribed to him. Natural law is what Tyson is all about and couple this with freedom of speech and there is nothing wrong with him poking a little fun at Christian beliefs.

I don't know why so many Christians in the US want to feel constantly persecuted. It's almost as if they get off on the idea of it. And I find that most offensive! :P

[Mecca]

But it's not ok to mock other people's beliefs/holidays. It's not ok to belligerently force your stances on other people.

I fail to see how making a funny little tweet equals belligerently forcing a stance on anyone or mocking beliefs. If Tyson made it personal and said that believers of Jesus were ignorant fools and Christmas sucks a bag full of goobs, maybe I could see the outrage, but stating a fact should not be seen as mocking. Sometimes a funny tweet is just a funny tweet.

[Georgiana]

Are you saying every little tweet that has a little fun with Christian beliefs must also simultaneously do the same with all other religious beliefs in order to be acceptable to you?

There was nothing forceful or belligerent about these tweets. They may not be particularly funny, but I don't see them as rude at all. Tyson was doing what he always does - pointing out that the "beliefs" held by hundreds of millions of people are not supported by scientific truths.

The Biblical stories of Jesus being born to a virgin (on December 25) and eventually rising from the dead cannot be true as such happenings would violate natural law. Same goes for any miracles ascribed to him. Natural law is what Tyson is all about and couple this with freedom of speech and there is nothing wrong with him poking a little fun at Christian beliefs.

I don't know why so many Christians in the US want to feel constantly persecuted. It's almost as if they get off on the idea of it. And I find that most offensive! :P

Freedom of Speech means that the government does not have the right to suppress what you say. It does not mean you can say whatever you want without consequences or that people can't call you out for saying something. People can make homophobic or anti-(insert religion here) and not be arrested because of freedom of speech, but they can lose their jobs or face other social stigma for those remarks (see: PP's Fire alarm business). So, seeing as I am neither a government worker nor calling for Tyson's arrest, I don't think FoS even applies here.

And what I am saying is that I found the tweet in poor taste. If I (or Josh Duggar) had made similar tweets about Ramadan, I would accept some people would be offended. It's not the meanest thing ever. Its not terrible, but I think it is in poor taste. I don't think mocking other people's beliefs is good behavior. I think it's rude, and it doesn't matter whose beliefs you are mocking.

Not that I don't come close to it here, but I keep it here (a snark site), don't take it to my social media accounts, and I'm not a public figure.

[Mecca]

But how did NDT belligerently force his stance on other people? Because the way I am seeing it, most of the people that have been offended by this are the ones that are actually guilty of forcing their views belligerently on others through various methods. He tweeted a few humours facts. That is.

These same people have openly ridiculed him for being educated and bringing science to the masses. They do not like that, apparently. They dish it out to people daily that do not believe as they do, so they are going to have to expect it dished back every once in a while.

[dairyfreelife]

Freedom of Speech means that the government does not have the right to suppress what you say. It does not mean you can say whatever you want without consequences or that people can't call you out for saying something. People can make homophobic or anti-(insert religion here) and not be arrested because of freedom of speech, but they can lose their jobs or face other social stigma for those remarks (see: PP's Fire alarm business). So, seeing as I am neither a government worker nor calling for Tyson's arrest, I don't think FoS even applies here.

And what I am saying is that I found the tweet in poor taste. If I (or Josh Duggar) had made similar tweets about Ramadan, I would accept some people would be offended. It's not the meanest thing ever. Its not terrible, but I think it is in poor taste. I don't think mocking other people's beliefs is good behavior. I think it's rude, and it doesn't matter whose beliefs you are mocking.

Not that I don't come close to it here, but I keep it here (a snark site), don't take it to my social media accounts, and I'm not a public figure.

And what did you call October 23rd this year? Thursday.

What did Hindus call it? Diwali.

Nope...not seeing the offense even though it's my bf family's religion and I have become a part of the religion and culture as well. It can be said of any religion because not everyone celebrates the holiday you (general you) do. And I think it was a nice homage to Newton. He was born on December 25th and around the age of 30 was when he got a lot of fame. It's not like no one except the supposed Jesus was born on December 25th and honestly, based off the texts, he was not born on that day anyway. They gave that day to counter solstice holidays that occurred around the same time.

[JenniferJuniper]

It's amazing how so many cannot see the irony of Christian outrage.

Neil deGrasse Tyson clearly believes that Christianity is based upon stories written and myths created by men. Natural law dictates that Jesus could not have been a divine being. If historical Jesus existed, he was human through and through.

I'm sure like most atheists, he's been bombarded with all sorts of shit for not accepting the unbelievable as truth. People in his face insisting he must change his beliefs or face eternal torture. Atheists remain feared and shunned in much of the US. We're more likely to have an openly gay religious president before an open non-believer is ever elected.

A Congressman has called him "smug" and arrogant" for daring to poke a little fun at Christmas. Others are calling him "militantly anti-God" because of his little tweets. One poster here has called him "belligerent" and just as bad as proselytizers.

What right does anyone have to insist that Tyson respect their positions when they have zero respect for his (and no tolerance for him)?

[Rainytown]

It's amazing how so many cannot see the irony of Christian outrage.

snip

I'm sure like most atheists, he's been bombarded with all sorts of shit for not accepting the unbelievable as truth. People in his face insisting he must change his beliefs or face eternal torture. Atheists remain feared and shunned in much of the US. We're more likely to have an openly gay religious president before an open non-believer is ever elected.

We live in a small town in very liberal Western Washington. There are more than a few atheists here, but most do not discuss it openly. To say that the believers in our town are militant is an understatement. One of the "out" atheists tried to put together a Random Acts of Atheism group to do good works in the community and posted the information to join on the town's Facebook community board. Needless to say, the planning meetings are now held in an undisclosed location (I wish I were kidding) and participants are not publicly identified.

It is amazing to me that those who believe think it is their perfect right to harass and threaten those who don't. It's also amazing to me that they know so little about the founders of the USA and their religious beliefs (or lack of them).

[Grimalkin]

There is somthing to be said for people who have a sense of humor.

It's a good thing to be able to laugh at oneself. Instead of FABULOSLY offended.

What is wrong with acknowledging others have different beliefs than yourself, and it doesn't make them bad.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

In fact the second line is nearly identical to one I see all the time re the USA:

"What does Australia, Bolivia, and China [or any random handful of country names] call July 4th?"

Answer: "Friday."

This actually reminds me of a "oh hey..." moment I had as a kid - an American English-monolingual friend of mine asked me how to say "the Fourth of July" in Japanese. It was on the holiday itself. The obvious direct answer is of course 七月四日("shichigatsu yokka") but the moment I said it I realized that in context, that's actually not the best answer, because it's literally "July 4th" but of course that means nothing at all of significance, the better answer (in context, given that it was the holiday) is 独立記念日("dokuritsu kinenbi") which is "Independence Day."

...because yeah all countries have a July 4th, but...

Anyway. I like the Newton tweet for the same reason I like the cards that have a red and green planet Earth leaning at the proper 23 degrees that say "Axial Tilt is the Reason for the Season."

The humor lies in the fact that it's a tweak - due to context everyone assumes the content will be one thing, but it's another. You thought the card would be about the "Xmas season" but actually it's winter. You think the person born on Dec 25 must be Jesus, but it's Newton. Ha. Neither of those makes fun of Christianity, just uses it as a decoy, of a sort.

And Christianity can be used as a decoy this way (in the US/UK) precisely because it's the majority religion that even non-Christians know something about and are surrounded by, so they're lulled into the assumption that that's where the joke is going.

[DaffyDill]

Conservative Christians seem generally pissed off about anything they perceive to be dismissive of their beliefs, no matter the actual intent of what was said or done. If they choose to believe it to be so, then it is so in their eyes.

It suits them to feel persecuted - we see that attitude all the time in the fundies we snark on here every day. If they are persecuted, then they feel as though they are like Christ himself and his disciples, followers etc. against the Romans. It makes them feel justified in their beliefs and even more self righteous for feeling as they believe he did.

"Persecution. If you're not feeling it you're not doing Christianity right". <---- new bumper sticker for them.

I didn't find Tyson's tweets to be offensive at all, just a bit of a joke. One thing conservative Christians don't seem to have is anything resembling a sense of humour. Everything is an affront. Obviously there are probably some exceptions, but a a whole, what a dire bunch.

The tweet that I feel as though Tyson really had a dig in read:

"Merry Christmas to all. A Pagan holiday (BC) becomes a Religious holiday (AD). Which then becomes a Shopping holiday (USA)."

Naturally, you could swap the letters USA for AU(Australia), UK, CAN, or any other country in which commercialisation of Christmas, or any other holiday, even Mother's Day is rampant. And this wasn't so much of a dig, as a gentle prod.

Don't stop being you good self Neil. You totally rock.

Edit: spelling, grammar, spacing. General written stupidity.

[Burris]

To be honest, I find evangelical anti-theists as annoying as evangelical theists of any denomination.

It's cool to believe (or not believe) whatever you want. It's cool to engage in respectful discussions about what you do or do not believe.

[snipped]But it's not ok to mock other people's beliefs/holidays. It's not ok to belligerently force your stances on other people.What this does is just give more fuel to the conservative Christian "woe is us, we're so persecuted" garbage.

I find anti-theism really obnoxious, but those "jokes" for lack of a better word - they're merely witty observations, actually - are not offensive. They weren't false statements, libelous, or mean-spirited.

I don't see anything wrong even with most crude jokes, however, nor with people unafraid to point out when jokes are offensive and potentially hurtful - especially if the targets are disadvantaged, voiceless, or genuinely persecuted.

Those two things - speaking and being held accountable for one's words - are markers of free expression.

Certain Christians - those who complain about the potential for persecution in those statements made by Neil deGrasse Tyson, or who send death threats to PZ Myers for his assault on and desecration of a cracker - make it so much harder to warn the public of genuine threats to the liberties of minority groups; of real persecution both local and international.

People should not have to censor innocent jokes - ones that would be appropriate among pre-schoolers if not for the religious content - merely for fear of offending professional victims such as the Christian groups who are always on the watch for things about which to complain.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I had to finally put up "no soliticing" signs that specified no religious folks as well to keep them away. Wanna know how many of these people constantly banging on my door were any religion but Christian? I'll give you 3 guesses though you should only need 1! The constant need to soul save and insist they're the only correct religion is why Christians get targeted so heavily. The attitude and superiority complex is likely why NDT didn't make a similar joke about other religious holidays. Muslims, Jews, etc in the US seem to get that they aren't the center of the fucking universe and tend to save cries of persecution for real persecution, which they -especially Muslims- are far more likely to experience.

[Rachel333]

That is absurd that those tweets could be considered evangelical anti-theism. I agree that those people are annoying, but it seems like someone even just mentioning the fact that they're atheist is enough to get labeled as a pushy atheist. (Kind of like veganism, really.)

Obligatory xkcd:

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Q: Why do computer programmers confuse Halloween and Xmas?

A: Because Oct 31 = Dec 25.

:dance:

[GiGi_41]

Q: This year what do traditional Quakers call December 25th?

A: 5th day.

(The date would be the 25th day of the twelfth month, but it falls on the 5th day)

[Terrie]

The worst that you can accuse him of is not actually being very funny. As far as jokes go, they don't deserve much more than a mild "heh."

[nelliebelle1197]

Eh, I thought it was cute. Poking fun at Chanukah would be antisemitic. And as far as adding fuel to Christian extremists' persecution complex, they will claim persecution no matter what.

Am I missing some sarcasm? Poking fun at Chanukah is antisemitic but it is good fun to pick on Christians? I am hoping you are joking cause if not...