Breaking courtship rules

[FloraKitty35]

Got that right!!

I doubt that the Maxwell sisters will ever be allowed to court. Stevehovah will probably never let them out of his control. So courtship violations only apply to those courting John or Jesse.

[DGayle]

Was the couple devastated? Did she go on to marry someone else? Tell me more!

I lost contact with the girl after high school. I knew her because a friend of mine who lived across the street, who went to high school with me, went to church with her. They were Wesleyan. I was a Christian at the time, so it was all good for her to hang out with us. We counted as chaperones. She was engaged at the ripe ol' age of 17, with her wedding in the works. I remember right after the hand-grab happened. She was in shock. In retrospect, I don't know if her being so shocked was because she realized that the no-hand-holding was that strict (and I don't know if she initiated the break-up, or her parents, all she'd say was "it had to happen because purity blah blah"), or because she was devastated over the break-up. Until we lost contact (I moved away, and we weren't really close), she didn't smile much anymore.

R (my friend) and B (the courter) did wear pants, but didn't believe in makeup, or even euphemisms. No darns or shoots for them, since it was the same as saying damn and shit. All music had to be oldies, which was weird for Jars of Clay-listening me. All books had to be Christian. R and her sister, E, both went to public school for all except science. B was homeschooled, like another Catholic fundementalist friend I had. Teletubbies was edgy TV to them, which creeped me out because that show is freaky anyway, and we were all in our late teens.

So until the Duggars' show, and Josh getting engaged, I didn't know any touching at all was allowed in courting.

[nolongerIFBx]

i'm just glad i got out of that whole world before i was asked by a fundie guy to court. It hurt at the time, but i'm so glad now that i escaped the bondage to have been in that kind of a social situation, where the most innocent thing can be a major lifelong disadvantage.

Ditto. I'm almost 38 and still single but I'm so glad that fundie Mr. Right never came along.

As to the OT, all of the IFB churches that I was involved with had a no touching until marriage rule. Holding hands or side-hugging were not allowed. Some churches didn't even allow handshaking between opposite sexes. My oldest sibling and spouse didn't touch intentionally until the wedding rehearsal. And then they felt guilty about it and didn't touch in their wedding photos taken before the ceremony. If the rules were broken, "punishment" might vary depending on age/position in the church. For example, teens might be suspended(maybe for hand holding) or expelled (kissing) from the church school. College students would get demerits or be expelled for the same. After college graduation, if they were employed by the church, the same consequences might apply. I doubt church membership would be pulled for hand holding and kissing, but I have seen it pulled for unmarried sex. If they get married, though, all is forgiven.

[jerkit]

Ditto. I'm almost 38 and still single but I'm so glad that fundie Mr. Right never came along.

As to the OT, all of the IFB churches that I was involved with had a no touching until marriage rule. Holding hands or side-hugging were not allowed. Some churches didn't even allow handshaking between opposite sexes. My oldest sibling and spouse didn't touch intentionally until the wedding rehearsal. And then they felt guilty about it and didn't touch in their wedding photos taken before the ceremony. If the rules were broken, "punishment" might vary depending on age/position in the church. For example, teens might be suspended(maybe for hand holding) or expelled (kissing) from the church school. College students would get demerits or be expelled for the same. After college graduation, if they were employed by the church, the same consequences might apply. I doubt church membership would be pulled for hand holding and kissing, but I have seen it pulled for unmarried sex. If they get married, though, all is forgiven.

What was the timeline for getting married and getting all forgiven? PeePee said in a sermon a few weeks ago that he allowed fornicators one week to get married and make it legit. LOfreakingL.

[nolongerIFBx]

What was the timeline for getting married and getting all forgiven? PeePee said in a sermon a few weeks ago that he allowed fornicators one week to get married and make it legit. LOfreakingL.

I'd think pretty close to immediate. You get caught; you get an emergency meeting with Preacher, and you're married in his office as soon as a license can be obtained. No wedding. You would probably get a shower afterwards since now all has been put to rights.

[GeoBQn]

Ditto. I'm almost 38 and still single but I'm so glad that fundie Mr. Right never came along.

As to the OT, all of the IFB churches that I was involved with had a no touching until marriage rule. Holding hands or side-hugging were not allowed. Some churches didn't even allow handshaking between opposite sexes. My oldest sibling and spouse didn't touch intentionally until the wedding rehearsal. And then they felt guilty about it and didn't touch in their wedding photos taken before the ceremony. If the rules were broken, "punishment" might vary depending on age/position in the church. For example, teens might be suspended(maybe for hand holding) or expelled (kissing) from the church school. College students would get demerits or be expelled for the same. After college graduation, if they were employed by the church, the same consequences might apply. I doubt church membership would be pulled for hand holding and kissing, but I have seen it pulled for unmarried sex. If they get married, though, all is forgiven.

My BIL's girlfriend went to an IFB elementary school. She told me about the year that her school instituted a strict "no touching between the opposite sexes" rule. Kids were getting suspended for things like a boy tapping a girl on shoulder, or a girl's fingers lightly grazing a boy's fingers as she passed him a pencil. Eventually, the parents complained so much that the school got rid of the rule.

[becky4201]

I would imagine some of the families call the "kidults" up in front of their home churches to publicly repent. They just seem that cruel to embarrass them like that.

I knew a girl in high school who got pregnant and her parents forced her & her boyfriend to stand up in front of their church & apologize. The absolute cruelty still astounds me.

[acireta]

A close friend growing up attended a very strict church school. She got expelled our freshman year for passing a note to a boy asking if he liked her.

It shouldn't have been too surprising, her brother had been expelled the year before for flipping off the soccer coach and her family was kind of ostracized after that.

This church was basically a cult, with a neighborhood being bought left and right by church members. There was always a feeling of not being good enough to fit in when I visited. Earlier this year, one of the former pastors was convicted of child molestation and the pastoral team came under fire for not reporting allegations for years. It happened years before we were there, but the place was creepily exclusionary when we were there.

[fun2beme]

I knew a girl in high school who got pregnant and her parents forced her & her boyfriend to stand up in front of their church & apologize. The absolute cruelty still astounds me.

OMG, that is horrible! I went to Catholic school and my sister graduated in 1990. The principal wouldn't let a girl in her class participate in the graduation ceremony because she was pregnant with her second child.

[Peas n carrots]

I knew a girl in high school who got pregnant and her parents forced her & her boyfriend to stand up in front of their church & apologize. The absolute cruelty still astounds me.

This is what I don't get - children are supposed to be blessings, but in all cases outside of marriage they are a punishment. Da Fuq?

[Olive Plant]

I think it depends if it's a female or a male.

I know a family that has a daughter currently courting a guy who had to go through a year of phone calls with her dad and then go across the country for in-person meetings before they were allowed to court. They talked about theology (and the guy had to read all these texts to convince him where he was wrong) and the guy's finances, and he had to get out of debt before he could court the girl. Prior to courting they could not touch at all.

This girl's brother married a girl after a totally normal dating relationship which included sex, and it was by no means his first sexual experience. The family "didn't know about" any of this, or pretended not to.

[LongDogMom]

The public shaming for breaking courtship rules is a real struggle...Anyway, couples like that lord it over other couples who don't have the same 'stick-up-their-asses' attitudes to keep things as pure. It's like the way Anna brags almost every time she and Josh talk about their wedding that they didn't kiss before the altar. Okay, we get it. These things become a show-off competition for holiness in some youth groups. It can go beyond parental enforcement. It becomes a 'we are perfect and you're not' race. And it can follow couples who slip up for the rest of their lives. Rumor mills in conservative circles are nasty business. This is the way fundie royalty earns and keeps their status. Some even do this without really understanding how nasty they're acting. It's because of holiness. If something is considered holy or godly, it's okay to be stuck up about it.

It just all sounds so immature and highschool. I mean, really? That's all you're about...striving to be more holy that everyone else so you can look down on them and feel better about yourself. Yuck! It all seems so hypocritical too, with them being Christians and all. I do get that sense from the Duggars though - that they think they are better than everyone else who doesn't follow all their stupid rules. What a shallow and sad life these people have if it's all about trying to outdo each other's holiness so they can feel better about themselves and look down on others. I think that makes it really hard to talk about problems when they come up and be honest and forthright with not only a spouse, but with family and even friends. How can you have genuine relationships with people when you have to worry about looking so perfect and holy all the time?! Trapped like that, with no one to talk to or open up to without feeling judged and shamed, is why people kill themselves imo. It's dangerous and sad that people choose to live this way. And frankly, it's the opposite of what Christ was all about imo.

The way I look at things...try to become a better person every day...a better you...not because some religion tells you to, but because it's right to want to become more knowledgeable and to be able to treat those in your life with kindness and understanding and empathy. Care less about what others have, or do, and ask yourself what is important to you and speaks to your heart.

I think about the Duggar kids and often wonder if they will ever really know who they are...their true selves, or if they will always just play the role that their parents forced on them, too scared to deviate in any way. I'm sure all their self esteem comes from following those rules as well, telling themselves (as I'm sure M and JB have told them) that they are better than those people who don't do those things.

Coco, I'm glad you got away as well! :dance:

[Toothfairy]

But mom and dad dated.... courtship is so ridiculous. Why date with a purpose why not just date. Gosh dating isn't sex

[Coco]

It just all sounds so immature and highschool. I mean, really? That's all you're about...striving to be more holy that everyone else so you can look down on them and feel better about yourself. Yuck! It all seems so hypocritical too, with them being Christians and all. I do get that sense from the Duggars though - that they think they are better than everyone else who doesn't follow all their stupid rules. What a shallow and sad life these people have if it's all about trying to outdo each other's holiness so they can feel better about themselves and look down on others. I think that makes it really hard to talk about problems when they come up and be honest and forthright with not only a spouse, but with family and even friends. How can you have genuine relationships with people when you have to worry about looking so perfect and holy all the time?! Trapped like that, with no one to talk to or open up to without feeling judged and shamed, is why people kill themselves imo. It's dangerous and sad that people choose to live this way. And frankly, it's the opposite of what Christ was all about imo.

The way I look at things...try to become a better person every day...a better you...not because some religion tells you to, but because it's right to want to become more knowledgeable and to be able to treat those in your life with kindness and understanding and empathy. Care less about what others have, or do, and ask yourself what is important to you and speaks to your heart.

I think about the Duggar kids and often wonder if they will ever really know who they are...their true selves, or if they will always just play the role that their parents forced on them, too scared to deviate in any way. I'm sure all their self esteem comes from following those rules as well, telling themselves (as I'm sure M and JB have told them) that they are better than those people who don't do those things.

Coco, I'm glad you got away as well! :dance:

i think a lot of the pettiness might be because these fundies aren't choosing to live an uber-religious life out of the convictions of their heart. It's forced on them by their parents and surroundings. (My experience was with conservative Mennonites, which goes back for many generations). A lot of them (not all) are just trying to get to the top of the pile, just like any other social group, only in this group the currency isn't fashion or cars or things - it's holiness and doing everything by the "standards".