Fox News: Acquaintance Rape="Mistake Sex"

[GeoBQn]

Susan Patton (AKA "Princeton Mom") was on Fox & Friends to give advice to young women on how to snag a husband and keep him happy. For some reason, she ventured into talking about rape, and said that feminists have made people too sensitive. When rape occurs between acquaintances, she thinks it should be called "mistake sex" in order to avoid diminishing "the true horror of rape." Host Steve Doocy agreed with her, calling everything she said "good advice."

http://thinkprogress.org/media/2014/07/ ... nds-happy/

[docmom]

And beating up your wife/girlfriend is "mistake assault" and killing your husband is "mistake shooting". Sure. As long as its in the family it's not illegal, it's just an honest mistake.

[church_of_dog]

And beating up your wife/girlfriend is "mistake assault boxing" and killing your husband is "mistake shooting target practice". Sure. As long as its in the family it's not illegal, it's just an honest mistake.

fixed those for you. :doh:

[GolightlyGrrl]

It looks like the Oompa-loompa haired Princeton Mom is trying to become another Phyllis Schlafly.

[Childless]

The "mistake sex" comment was rude, insensitive, and downright idiotic. The rest of her screed was no better. Hard to marry in your 30s? On what planet? My husband and I didn't meet until we were in our mid-thirties. Looks like we had no problem finding spouses. And if I hadn't been an ardent feminist who was looking for an equal partnership and was completely fine on my own, he never would have looked twice at me. His first wife was clingy and had no self-esteem. It's part of the reason why they ended up divorced. He got tired of being tied at the hip with no ability to enjoy some alone time or time with his friends. Being a feminist and an independent person is what landed me a husband. Hell, if I'd take this lady's advice, I'd still be single!

[Toothfairy]

Mistake sex would be having sex without a condom if you don't want to get pregnant and/or diseases. Rape is forced sexual assault. Fox get a life and go back to school.

[Chowder Head]

I do believe I just vomited in my mouth. WTH rape in any matter is not :mistake sex".

[doggie]

Misfox you make a mistake every-time you watch it.

[DGayle]

Mistake sex is when drunk-you and a drunk guy head to bed and both willingly participate, and you wake up the next morning with a pounding headache and realize you just had sex with your ex/buy next door/someone from the cast of Revenge of the Nerds, before you slink out hoping he doesn't remember either.

Mistake sex is NOT a sober person taking advantage of someone that person has any reason to believe wouldn't consent otherwise, or physically forcing or coercing someone.

“Good advice,†Doocy beamed at the end of the Fox segment.

I wonder what he's done that he is so quick to jump on board the SS Date Rape is Just Mistake-Sex boat.

[CelticGoddess]

SO, according to this twat, my brother raping me (I'm sorry, forcibly having sexual intercourse with me) was a "mistake". I was made to feel like that when I was 16, when I tried to tell people, because it was "just my brother(In other words, not a father, uncle or other adult).

If a person (I don't care how old, how young, what gender, etc) says "No" or is unable to give verbal consent, then it is rape, period, end of story.

I can't even begin to describe the rage I feel right now.

[fun2beme]

I know a lot of conservatives have been rightly slammed for this (and I find their comments to be disgusting, degrading, and offensive) but Whoopi Goldberg made a similar statement regarding Roman Polanski so liberals are guilty of this as well. I remember being so disappointed in her when she said this.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2009/se ... i-goldberg

Link not broken because it's a news site.

[Flossie]

My God, Whoopi Goldberg thinks that an adult male having sex with a young girl is not "rape-rape"? I guess 'rape-rape' is the guy who comes up behind a woman and pulls her into an ally, beats her to a pulp and than actually 'rape rapes' her.

I guess a powerful adult male who gets a young girl alone, gives her alcohol and possibly drugs, takes pictures of her in a bathtub, and then has sex with her is just doing an "Oops". I guess if he didn't beat her first it's OK.

Yet another reason not to watch "The View".

[DGayle]

I know a lot of conservatives have been rightly slammed for this (and I find their comments to be disgusting, degrading, and offensive) but Whoopi Goldberg made a similar statement regarding Roman Polanski so liberals are guilty of this as well. I remember being so disappointed in her when she said this.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2009/se ... i-goldberg

Link not broken because it's a news site.

That was one of those things where she really wasn't clear at first about what she meant. "Rape-rape" apparently meant the type of sex with someone who actively isn't consenting (it wasn't that long ago that the legal definition for rape was ONLY is someone was physically fighting it, meaning quadriplegics couldn't be raped!!), versus statutory rape, which is ANY sex with a minor, even if the kid says yes. I know people who say "rape-rape" and "statutory rape," and it's really not meant to say that rape doesn't exist.

[DGayle]

SO, according to this twat, my brother raping me (I'm sorry, forcibly having sexual intercourse with me) was a "mistake". I was made to feel like that when I was 16, when I tried to tell people, because it was "just my brother(In other words, not a father, uncle or other adult).

If a person (I don't care how old, how young, what gender, etc) says "No" or is unable to give verbal consent, then it is rape, period, end of story.

I can't even begin to describe the rage I feel right now.

No no, in the fundy world, that falls under "boys will be boys," and shame-shame on you for "defrauding" and "tempting" him by existing.

I wonder how those people would feel about it being chalked up to just a mistake if it happens to them.

[Mama Mia]

That was one of those things where she really wasn't clear at first about what she meant. "Rape-rape" apparently meant the type of sex with someone who actively isn't consenting (it wasn't that long ago that the legal definition for rape was ONLY is someone was physically fighting it, meaning quadriplegics couldn't be raped!!), versus statutory rape, which is ANY sex with a minor, even if the kid says yes. I know people who say "rape-rape" and "statutory rape," and it's really not meant to say that rape doesn't exist.

I agree. I think the difference between statutory rape and any other rape is really important. Society can make laws that say sex is illegal between a minor and an adult, but saying that a teen girl ( or boy) who willingly engages in sex with someone older is the exact same thing as someone who has sex by force or threat or while unconscious is not only wrong, but dangerous, IMO. To me, it really minimizes the impact of non-consensual sex.

We have all sorts of laws that prohibit minors from engaging in activities that adults engage in legally, because society feels they aren't yet capable of handling the consequences and they can get in over their heads, but we don't go ahead and say that those activities are bad in and of themselves ( alcohol, porn, signing contracts ).Sex in and of itself isn't a bad thing, non-consensual sex is bad- always.

[DGayle]

Agreed, Mama Mia. There aren't enough terms for the different kinds of rape, leading people to have to try figuring out how to say what they mean in a short time. There's rape, and statutory rape. One applies to all minors regardless of consent, and one applies to all adults who don't consent.

I think teens get a mixed message about how they can consent sometimes, but not others. The consequences of sex with a fellow teen are the same, if not worse, than the consequences of an adult. Babies still get made, but the teen isn't as capable of supporting his baby. But I think this is getting into a different topic of conversation.

[fun2beme]

{quote}That was one of those things where she really wasn't clear at first about what she meant. "Rape-rape" apparently meant the type of sex with someone who actively isn't consenting (it wasn't that long ago that the legal definition for rape was ONLY is someone was physically fighting it, meaning quadriplegics couldn't be raped!!), versus statutory rape, which is ANY sex with a minor, even if the kid says yes. I know people who say "rape-rape" and "statutory rape," and it's really not meant to say that rape doesn't exist.

[Firiel]

In my mind, rape is rape. Yes, there may be some blurred lines when there are two consenting minors involved but the Roman Polanski case was about at 43-44 year old man having sex with a 14 year old. If a fundie pastor did that, we'd be all over him (rightfully so, IMO), and I'm pretty sure Whoopi wouldn't make excuses for him. In terms of not expressing yourself best under pressure, I agree that for 99.99% of us, that's the case. But Whoopi made her career as a stand-up comedian and talk show host, where a big part of the job is thinking on your feet. And it's common practice for celebrities to say their remarks were misinterpreted or not phrased in the best way when the backlash hits.

Todd Akin was slammed for his comment about "legitimate rape" (I know there was the corresponding stupidity of his claim about victims not getting pregnant). I'm not sure what posters here thought of that, but isn't it the same thing if we differentiate degrees/types of rape?

Note - I'm really not a Whoopi hater but when a woman minimalizes the rape of another woman (or minor), it makes my blood boil.

YES. I totally agree with this. Though I would even go so far as to say there are blurred lines even if one partner is over 18 and one partner is under 18. My ex-brother-in-law and his ex-girlfriend were three years apart in age, which means that for a large portion of their relationship, he was an adult and she was a minor (15/18, 16/19, etc.), though they started dating when they were both in high school. Legally, once they became sexually active, that was statutory rape. I have no reason to believe, though, that his girlfriend was in a position where informed consent was any less possible for her than for him. Though he could have been prosecuted for statutory rape, I don't think that this legal rape amounted to any "lack of/inability to consent" rape.

However, take a very similar age gap (17/21) but make one of the parties a teacher or boss to the other. It is much less likely that informed consent is possible for the 17 year old in this picture because of the authority that the teacher/boss has over the younger person. This is definitely different than the above situation, but even though it is still abhorrent (IMO), it probably still isn't as bad as Roman Polanski.

Roman Polanski was a middle-aged man who had sex with a 13-year-old. He was her photographer (photographers tell models what to do) and a celebrity, and she was a child. The power differential is enormous there. Absolutely no meaningful consent is possible there. Even if she didn't say "no"-- hell, even if she was a "willing participant"-- this IS rape-rape. A 13-year-old is a CHILD. Not a teen, not even a physical adult (although the puberty process has certainly started). She could not be a willing participant in sexual activities with a middle-aged man. The only way this could be considered "not rape-rape" is if you instead consider it "child abuse-hebephilia-rape-rape."

[DGayle]

fun2beme, NO ONE AT ALL is saying what Roman did is okay. What we're talking about is Whoopi's statement, and how it was taken wrong. There's an extra gut-kick when you've got a teen saying no, and someone forces it, but that doesn't make participation by the teen any less wrong at the end of the day. A lot of the time, participation is because the adult promises something, or the teen is scared to say no, and no matter what, the adult has the obligation to say HELL NO, even if a teen initiates. So no matter what, Roman is wrong, very wrong, and no one is arguing that he did something excusable.

[fun2beme]

fun2beme, NO ONE AT ALL is saying what Roman did is okay. What we're talking about is Whoopi's statement, and how it was taken wrong. There's an extra gut-kick when you've got a teen saying no, and someone forces it, but that doesn't make participation by the teen any less wrong at the end of the day. A lot of the time, participation is because the adult promises something, or the teen is scared to say no, and no matter what, the adult has the obligation to say HELL NO, even if a teen initiates. So no matter what, Roman is wrong, very wrong, and no one is arguing that he did something excusable.

I'm genuinely curious (not trying to :stir-pot: ) as to how her quote was misinterpreted:

“I know it wasn’t rape-rape. It was something else but I don’t believe it was rape-rape."

She stated later that he wasn't charged with rape but with unlawful sexual intercourse; I'm not arguing that. But she never addressed how rape differs from "rape-rape" which she doens't seem to think is that bad. And I'm pretty sure that if 44 year-old Paul Ryan has "unlawful sexual intercourse" with a 14 year-old model (who stated under oath that she was given drugs and alcohol), she wouldn't be so blase about it not being rape.