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GeoBQn

According to Abigail:

1. She has had secondary infertility.

2. Getting married and having a child at 28 is "late."

3. The existence of birth control anywhere in the world means that anybody who wants to have a child is weird.

abigails-alcove.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-invisibility-of-secondary.html

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uber frau

:angry-banghead: :cray-cray: :pull-hair: :wtf:

That pretty much covers it really.

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Cran

Do ALL fundies have a persecution complex? Like Zsu, the PP's wife, who complained about people giving her a hard time for having so many kids since she's birthed her second or third child?

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Coconut Flan

She's back to whining about that again?

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docmom
Do ALL fundies have a persecution complex? Like Zsu, the PP's wife, who complained about people giving her a hard time for having so many kids since she's birthed her second or third child?

I am sick and tired of fundies claiming that random people remarking that they have their hands full with a bunch of kids are in any way shape or form persecuting them, passing judgment or suggesting that they limit their family size. People say "you have you hands full" as a statement of fact with a good measure of empathy thrown in! Hell, people said it to me when I had only one kid (and they were right).

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SunnyAndrsn

Isn't she currently pregnant again? How does that add up to secondary infertility?

What happened to God opening and closing the womb?

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argypargy

I am sick and tired of fundies claiming that random people remarking that they have their hands full with a bunch of kids are in any way shape or form persecuting them, passing judgment or suggesting that they limit their family size. People say "you have you hands full" as a statement of fact with a good measure of empathy thrown in! Hell, people said it to me when I had only one kid (and they were right).

People say it to me when I'm running with my 3yo in the stroller and two dogs trotting along beside me. I never take offense.

While 2.5 years between pregnancies is a long time, she still managed to get pregnant naturally each time. She's just got to latch onto whatever label suits her persecution complex of the day (infertility, poverty, etc.).

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tkr322

Her post is SO offensive to people who actually experience infertility. Shame on her.

I'm pretty sure someone who has a herd of kids and can't get pregnant for 2.5 years has nothing to complain or mourn about. Maybe it's God trying to tell you it's time to stop having kids? Did she ever think of that one?

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Howl

Maybe she's dropping eggs like the Easter Bunny, but hubby is shooting blanks. Also, with all of the emphasis on natural medicine, aren't these women breast feeding for a few years, which can certainly delay pregnancy.

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slickcat79
Maybe she's dropping eggs like the Easter Bunny, but hubby is shooting blanks. Also, with all of the emphasis on natural medicine, aren't these women breast feeding for a few years, which can certainly delay pregnancy.

There were ~30 months between the birth of Abigail's third and getting pregnant with #4. If those pregnancies were like others, she spent 9-12 of those months BFing, which cuts down the time actively trying to get pregnant with no hormonal interference to <2 years. We also know she has had at least 2 miscarriages at other times, so she may have had early ones during that period without realizing.

I think the hardest thing for me was having the loneliness. There was nobody to talk about my feelings with beside my husband. To the secular world we looked 'done'. To the Catholic world, it seemed normal to want to have a break after 3 kids under age 5. Even the good friends who know that I was so hopeful each month that "this would be it"--there was this distance. First they had one kid, while I was waiting. Then two. After a while, I felt like I ran out of words to bridge the gap between our lives.

YOU ALREADY HAD THREE KIDS. How do you have nothing to talk about with other women who share your faith and also have young children? And loneliness, really? With parents, siblings, a husband, children, friends, church family and faith, you're lonely? JFC. I think what she really means is that no one will give her the proper level of sympathy when she talks about her infertility while having 3 children under age 5 :roll:

I understand that secondary infertility is real, and painful. Above all, it must be so frustrating to think that you got pregnant before without problems and not understanding why it won't happen again. But it will never be the same experience as people who cannot and will not ever have kids without spending thousands of dollars (or more) on fertility treatments or adoptions that might not even pan out. Most people who want to have kids would consider 3 in 4 years to be an abundance of blessings, but Abigail is so special, she always deserves MORE.

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Ave Maria

There were ~30 months between the birth of Abigail's third and getting pregnant with #4. If those pregnancies were like others, she spent 9-12 of those months BFing, which cuts down the time actively trying to get pregnant with no hormonal interference to <2 years. We also know she has had at least 2 miscarriages at other times, so she may have had early ones during that period without realizing.

YOU ALREADY HAD THREE KIDS. How do you have nothing to talk about with other women who share your faith and also have young children? And loneliness, really? With parents, siblings, a husband, children, friends, church family and faith, you're lonely? JFC. I think what she really means is that no one will give her the proper level of sympathy when she talks about her infertility while having 3 children under age 5 :roll:

I understand that secondary infertility is real, and painful. Above all, it must be so frustrating to think that you got pregnant before without problems and not understanding why it won't happen again. But it will never be the same experience as people who cannot and will not ever have kids without spending thousands of dollars (or more) on fertility treatments or adoptions that might not even pan out. Most people who want to have kids would consider 3 in 4 years to be an abundance of blessings, but Abigail is so special, she always deserves MORE.

I agree that she is very blessed -- but I could also see where the miscarriages, etc, would cause pain, even for someone who does already have children. Recurrent miscarriage also gets lumped in with infertility, though in truth failing to get pregnant and failing to stay pregnant are two different issues.

Technically, trying for 12 months (6 past a certain age) and not getting pregnant = infertility. If you've already had at least one baby, it's secondary infertility. So she does meet the definition. Personally, I'd be happy with the amount of kids she has -- but even so, miscarriages are a rough thing, especially ones that happen so late, when most women can safely feel safe that their child will be okay.

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GeoBQn

Now they are moving.

abigails-alcove.blogspot.com/2014/04/pulling-up-our-roots.html

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Coconut Flan

Is their current area that high crime that it isn't safe to go to church on a weekday? I'm astounded.

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slickcat79
We're moving. We picked out a new church in a new city twenty minutes north of us. There are so many pluses for moving. There is this amazing City Park with Trumpet Swans and a free Art Museum. Housing prices are similar to our current house. There are more educational and sport programs for my kids. My husband loses 30 minutes on his super long commute. It's a housing upgrade in every category.

How is this possible? How do you move from a "high crime" area to a place that's safer, more convenient to the city, with more local amenities AND a house that's bigger and nicer than the one you own for a comparable price? :?

I get the feeling that this move will not be happening anytime soon. It's all well and good to find yourself a new church and a park and museums, but you still have to sell your house to be able to move. People in poverty certainly couldn't afford to carry 2 mortgages, right? Plus isn't she in the middle of a precarious pregnancy? Of course, this is the Abigail family we're talking about. If there is a more inconvenient, illogical and expensive way to do something, she will find that and do it. :roll:

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yetanothermeg
Is their current area that high crime that it isn't safe to go to church on a weekday? I'm astounded.

Maybe it is just particular neighbors? Like a couple of drug dealers of meth heads.

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GeoBQn

Ugh, my friend who is currently 8 months pregnant desperately wants to move. Her neighbor on one side is a convicted pedophile. Her neighbors on the other side were drug dealers. If their garage was half-open, that was a sign they were open for business. She would see parents go in with children waiting in the car, and it deeply upset her. Luckily, the dealers got evicted. With her only finding part-time work, they can't afford to move to any neighborhood they would want to live.

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Coconut Flan

Abigail's town is pretty small and I fell into the trap of thinking small towns are usually safer. It has a very high crime index and low safety index. It's listed as safer than something like 6% of towns in the US. She may have a point. Although it seems the crime is centered in one small part of town. They may live in that small part. I'm guessing though that most of the crime isn't directed toward women going to weekday mass.

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dianapavelovna

How is this possible? How do you move from a "high crime" area to a place that's safer, more convenient to the city, with more local amenities AND a house that's bigger and nicer than the one you own for a comparable price? :?

Right? And if that were the case, why didn't they live there in the first place?

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nausicaa

Right? And if that were the case, why didn't they live there in the first place?

That was my first thought. However, everything in Abigail's life seems very reactive rather than proactive. I always got the feeling they waited till the last minute to decide where they were moving during their last move, and without any research (which helps to explain the ridiculous commute of her husband). There's no excuse for it because they knew the occupancy rules of the last

apartment building and that having their next child would violate that and they would be kicked out. They had plenty of time to make a better informed decision.

I think Abigail and her husband also only see the face price of things, without taking other things into consideration. I.e., they simply bought the cheapest house they could find, rather than factoring in the neighborhood, cost of the commute, price of gas/food in the area.

Good to know that fridge purchase was a good investment :roll:

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nausicaa

Nitpicky, but this statement kind of annoyed me:

"I hate the stress of all the finances going in flux because you don't know how much the heat will be in winter and everything needs to be repaired at the same time."

Can't you ask for copies of the previous tenant's utility bills for this very reason? Therefore you cann figure out if you can afford the house (not just the mortgage but the taxes and utility payments). And a lot of people save for the winter heat bills year round so they're not scrambling in December to come up with it.

Why is Abigail so helpless in the face of all of life's problems?

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August

There were ~30 months between the birth of Abigail's third and getting pregnant with #4. If those pregnancies were like others, she spent 9-12 of those months BFing, which cuts down the time actively trying to get pregnant with no hormonal interference to <2 years. We also know she has had at least 2 miscarriages at other times, so she may have had early ones during that period without realizing.

YOU ALREADY HAD THREE KIDS. How do you have nothing to talk about with other women who share your faith and also have young children? And loneliness, really? With parents, siblings, a husband, children, friends, church family and faith, you're lonely? JFC. I think what she really means is that no one will give her the proper level of sympathy when she talks about her infertility while having 3 children under age 5 :roll:

I understand that secondary infertility is real, and painful. Above all, it must be so frustrating to think that you got pregnant before without problems and not understanding why it won't happen again. But it will never be the same experience as people who cannot and will not ever have kids without spending thousands of dollars (or more) on fertility treatments or adoptions that might not even pan out. Most people who want to have kids would consider 3 in 4 years to be an abundance of blessings, but Abigail is so special, she always deserves MORE.

Apparently I'm only allowed to like a post once. This deficit needs fixing, because this post needs a million likes.

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Ave Maria

How is this possible? How do you move from a "high crime" area to a place that's safer, more convenient to the city, with more local amenities AND a house that's bigger and nicer than the one you own for a comparable price? :?

I get the feeling that this move will not be happening anytime soon. It's all well and good to find yourself a new church and a park and museums, but you still have to sell your house to be able to move. People in poverty certainly couldn't afford to carry 2 mortgages, right? Plus isn't she in the middle of a precarious pregnancy? Of course, this is the Abigail family we're talking about. If there is a more inconvenient, illogical and expensive way to do something, she will find that and do it. :roll:

Buy a "fixer."

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Ave Maria

YOU ALREADY HAD THREE KIDS. How do you have nothing to talk about with other women who share your faith and also have young children? And loneliness, really? With parents, siblings, a husband, children, friends, church family and faith, you're lonely? JFC. I think what she really means is that no one will give her the proper level of sympathy when she talks about her infertility while having 3 children under age 5 :roll:

I understand that secondary infertility is real, and painful. Above all, it must be so frustrating to think that you got pregnant before without problems and not understanding why it won't happen again. But it will never be the same experience as people who cannot and will not ever have kids without spending thousands of dollars (or more) on fertility treatments or adoptions that might not even pan out. Most people who want to have kids would consider 3 in 4 years to be an abundance of blessings, but Abigail is so special, she always deserves MORE.

I've given it more thought... and here goes another reply, more pointed this time. 8-)

I'm one of those people who will never have biological kids. It is what it is, and I accept it. And guess what, I think this girl has it worse than we do if she has miscarried. That was always the one thing I've always been thankful for -- I really do believe that never getting pregnant is easier than the false hope and palatable grief of getting pregnant and losing the baby.

That's just my opinion, though, and maybe I'm wrong. And I do think it's unfair to try to compare amounts of grief (even if I just did that very thing above). I would never say, "Oh, how awful, she lost her son in a car crash, good thing she has three more sons." Maybe it would be worse if that boy were the woman's only child, because then she would have not only lost her son but also lost her only chance at having grandkids, etc. The problem is, though, that it lessens the validity of one person's grief. Yes, it is more tragic (and more seemingly unfair) to become a widow when your 30-year-old husband suddenly dies than when your 80-year-old husband dies -- but I would never want to lessen an older widow's right to grieve, you know?

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slickcat79

I've given it more thought... and here goes another reply, more pointed this time. 8-)

I'm one of those people who will never have biological kids. It is what it is, and I accept it. And guess what, I think this girl has it worse than we do if she has miscarried. That was always the one thing I've always been thankful for -- I really do believe that never getting pregnant is easier than the false hope and palatable grief of getting pregnant and losing the baby.

That's just my opinion, though, and maybe I'm wrong. And I do think it's unfair to try to compare amounts of grief (even if I just did that very thing above). I would never say, "Oh, how awful, she lost her son in a car crash, good thing she has three more sons." Maybe it would be worse if that boy were the woman's only child, because then she would have not only lost her son but also lost her only chance at having grandkids, etc. The problem is, though, that it lessens the validity of one person's grief. Yes, it is more tragic (and more seemingly unfair) to become a widow when your 30-year-old husband suddenly dies than when your 80-year-old husband dies -- but I would never want to lessen an older widow's right to grieve, you know?

But this isn't about her miscarriages, it's about her secondary infertility. And the fact that she's STILL grifting for sympathy 4 years later, despite having 2 more kids since then and now being pregnant with a third. A pregnant mother of 5 has no business lumping herself in with infertile women, on a week designated to draw attention to people dealing with infertility. I mean, if you were coming off a second failed adoption (like friends of mine in KY) and an acquaintance with 5 kids wanted you to feel bad about her infertility, would you be sympathetic or angry?

This is the same woman who has claimed that she is just like a Romanian orphan because her mother used to put her in day care. Or you can look at her myriad claims of living in poverty, despite the fact that she has extra money laying around for cello rental+lessons (for herself), new kitchen appliances, food from restaurants and concession stands, and random broken crap from Hobby Lobby because she wants to support the "healthcare martyrs" :roll:

I also don't see what's so bad about thinking that people who go through the horror of losing a child are in a better place when they have other children than those who don't. Of course it's not the same because children are not interchangeable, and nothing compares to the pain of losing your child, but I would hope that the knowledge that you have other children to love and care for and bring joy to your life would ultimately be a source of comfort. And of course, all this is kind of moot when talking about Abigail because she hasn't lost a child, she's had miscarriages. While I don't doubt her grief over that, again, it's not the same experience as losing your living, breathing child, as anyone who has experienced both miscarriage and the child loss could attest.

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anjulibai

From what I understand, secondary infertility isn't something that just goes away. You just can't get pregnant again without some sort of intervention.

As far as we know, Abigail hasn't had any interventions. So that period she didn't conceive isn't because she couldn't, it's because she just didn't. Call it bad luck or the Lord closing her womb or whatever, she just didn't and then she started again.

That's not secondary infertility.

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