Religious School - Measles Outbreak

[Cleopatra7]

While I wish all the anti-vaccine nonsense would go away (and, yes, it is nonsense) I sincerely hope we don't have to have an outbreak of measles or rubella or polio in order for it to happen. Unfortunately, even our best vaccines protect only about 95% of people who receive them. In recent measles outbreaks in Europe 15% of people who got measles had had the vaccine. This is why herd immunity is so important. It protects not only those who have not been vaccinated, but those whose vaccines haven't protected them. In other, totally selfish words, my completely vaccinated kids could get unlucky.

Sadly, I think this is the only thing that will help. Gen X and Yers have no first hand knowledge of many of these dieaseses and don't know how deadly they can be. The only references they see to measles, mumps, rubella, etc are in old children's books, which may give the impression that such illnesses were just a sort of rite of passage that was no more dangerous than getting a cold. If we had to attend funerals of children who died from measles or saw kids in braces and iron lungs, it would give us a completely different view of these illnesses. I think that public health officials need to launch graphic campaigns that bring home this reality.

[twin2]

And Kristin Cavallari ways in on vaccines :roll: :angry-banghead:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... p=features

(I just read Fox News for the lulz I swears!)

[Toothfairy]

And Kristin Cavallari ways in on vaccines :roll: :angry-banghead:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... p=features

(I just read Fox News for the lulz I swears!)

Now people are going to stop vaccinating their kids. I remember when Jenny McCarthy came out and said her son has autism because of getting vaccinated a ton of people stop vaccinating their kid :shock: I really don't understand why parents choose not to vaccinate having the measles or polio is very serious and painful. If the resources are there they should use them

[Arete]

My sisters and I had a mutual friend on Facebook with an autistic child in the family. Said friend was posting rank anti vaccine propaganda and urging others not to vaccinate. I put on my professional hat and started posting "just the facts, ma'am" rebuttals with citations. This friend took the trouble to call one of the sises and cry about what a MEAN bitch I was being for posting rebuttals. She CRIED. Sis took the trouble to call me to tell me I was being an ill mannered bitch by publically contradicting someone obviously upset about the autism diagnoses.

I defriended the anti vaccine hysteric and resisted the urge to take a plumbing line to my sister. I hate how some people feel obligated to entertain this bullshit and therefore spread this propaganda in the name of not hurting someone's feelings.

[GeoBQn]

Sadly, I think this is the only thing that will help. Gen X and Yers have no first hand knowledge of many of these dieaseses and don't know how deadly they can be. The only references they see to measles, mumps, rubella, etc are in old children's books, which may give the impression that such illnesses were just a sort of rite of passage that was no more dangerous than getting a cold. If we had to attend funerals of children who died from measles or saw kids in braces and iron lungs, it would give us a completely different view of these illnesses. I think that public health officials need to launch graphic campaigns that bring home this reality.

I don't think the lack of first-hand knowledge is an excuse. I'm Gen Y and I have never known anyone with measles, etc.--but I have read first-hand accounts of people who were affected by these diseases, and I've read articles about the difference vaccines have made to public health. Shouldn't functional adults be able to learn from the experiences of others?

[Alachantal]

That school in BC with the measles outbreak is actually quite close to where I live (ive hiked the mountain that it's named after) and a friend of mine sends some of his kids there, and they're all "it's gods will if our children becomes ill " like it really isn't a big deal. That area of the valley is extremely religious, so every year something like this happens, whether it's whooping cough or measles or something else.

My mother's aunt had polio as a child (she passed when I was 16 so I met her many many times) and she always viewed it as a "test from God", but the effects on my aunt where enough for my mother to getvmy brother and I vaccinated (despite never been vaccinated herself and the family being extremely devout catholics). Not to mention my mother's younger sister was left partially paralyzed after getting sick as a child and has spent the last 40 years of her life in a care home due to an easily preventable childhood disease.

[Joan of Snarc]

I don't think the lack of first-hand knowledge is an excuse. I'm Gen Y and I have never known anyone with measles, etc.--but I have read first-hand accounts of people who were affected by these diseases, and I've read articles about the difference vaccines have made to public health. Shouldn't functional adults be able to learn from the experiences of others?

Not only that, but have they never been miserably sick with the flu, or bronchitis, or pneumonia? Those are miserable enough, in my opinion, why would you roll the dice on your kids contracting something so much worse? I hate to watch my kids be sick with anything, even an ear infection or cold. And if I can take a shot or give my kids a shot to prevent ANY sickness, ima do it. Bring it on.

[mockingbird]

Sadly, I think this is the only thing that will help. Gen X and Yers have no first hand knowledge of many of these dieaseses and don't know how deadly they can be. The only references they see to measles, mumps, rubella, etc are in old children's books, which may give the impression that such illnesses were just a sort of rite of passage that was no more dangerous than getting a cold. If we had to attend funerals of children who died from measles or saw kids in braces and iron lungs, it would give us a completely different view of these illnesses. I think that public health officials need to launch graphic campaigns that bring home this reality.

This is a GREAT idea. We do that for things like smoking and meth abuse, why not vaccines? I think it could be really effective. Dang, if I had time, I'd totally recruit my designer friend and make a Kickstarter for that.

There's also been an outbreak of mumps at Ohio State (just in time for spring break so they can go home and spread it to everyone in their hometowns!!!!!): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/1 ... ef=college

I have to say being pro-vax is one of the few things I'm really hardcore/extremist about. Unless you have a LEGITIMATE medical contraindication to not getting a vaccine (like an allergy) I just don't think it's acceptable not to vaccinate and put your child and others at risk.

[Stephanie66]

So why do the non-religious and believe in science people not vaccinate? I mean the otherwise intelligent people? Upper income, good parents, etc. Why don't they vaccinate? They will say it is the "chemicals" in the vaccines, but let's be honest...the diseases their children could get are much worse than any "chemicals" they would get in a few shots. Can any previous anti vaccers explain it? I really want to understand and don't want to confront friends who believe this. (I am getting a titer test for measles, as I only had one MMR shot. I might need to get a booster on that, too. Thanks, anti vaxing moms.)

[Trynn]

Well, some of my friends who tend to believe every conspiracy they read about seem to believe that the government can put anything in vaccines: like cancer or something.

There was an x-files episode on it, actually; the government was putting cells from a dead alien fetus into the smallpox vaccines to see what would happen. Or something like that... It was the story arc where they shot deep throat.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

So why do the non-religious and believe in science people not vaccinate? I mean the otherwise intelligent people? Upper income, good parents, etc. Why don't they vaccinate? They will say it is the "chemicals" in the vaccines, but let's be honest...the diseases their children could get are much worse than any "chemicals" they would get in a few shots. Can any previous anti vaccers explain it? I really want to understand and don't want to confront friends who believe this. (I am getting a titer test for measles, as I only had one MMR shot. I might need to get a booster on that, too. Thanks, anti vaxing moms.)

The majority of my friends who do not vaccinate are atheist homeschoolers in an upper class area. They love science! They do not vaccinate because they try to do things naturally like eating organically, breastfeeding, avoiding chemical cleaners. Vaccines have all sorts of things in them that they are not comfortable with. The sites and books that tell them to eat quinoa also tell them vaccines are harmful. They also tend to have a skeptical view of government and media, believing that certain agendas (financial, etc) are pushed over a more neutral view. Its an overall belief that health in America is rapidly declining due to processed foods and overuse of chemicals in all of our products and overuse of medications, which includes vaccines.

[Sydney Fox]

I'm in B.C. and along with the measles outbreak here, the school board just called to warn us about two cases of whooping cough in my small community's schools. It makes me want to find a bunker and hide until this all blows over.

[Stephanie66]

The majority of my friends who do not vaccinate are atheist homeschoolers in an upper class area. They love science! They do not vaccinate because they try to do things naturally like eating organically, breastfeeding, avoiding chemical cleaners. Vaccines have all sorts of things in them that they are not comfortable with. The sites and books that tell them to eat quinoa also tell them vaccines are harmful. They also tend to have a skeptical view of government and media, believing that certain agendas (financial, etc) are pushed over a more neutral view. Its an overall belief that health in America is rapidly declining due to processed foods and overuse of chemicals in all of our products and overuse of medications, which includes vaccines.

But polio, whooping cough and measles were around before GMOs. Just saying.

[Terrie]

So why do the non-religious and believe in science people not vaccinate? I mean the otherwise intelligent people? Upper income, good parents, etc. Why don't they vaccinate? They will say it is the "chemicals" in the vaccines, but let's be honest...the diseases their children could get are much worse than any "chemicals" they would get in a few shots. Can any previous anti vaccers explain it? I really want to understand and don't want to confront friends who believe this. (I am getting a titer test for measles, as I only had one MMR shot. I might need to get a booster on that, too. Thanks, anti vaxing moms.)

Never an anti-vaxer, but I do have one possible reason. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

[Mama Mia]

Sadly, I think this is the only thing that will help. Gen X and Yers have no first hand knowledge of many of these dieaseses and don't know how deadly they can be. The only references they see to measles, mumps, rubella, etc are in old children's books, which may give the impression that such illnesses were just a sort of rite of passage that was no more dangerous than getting a cold. If we had to attend funerals of children who died from measles or saw kids in braces and iron lungs, it would give us a completely different view of these illnesses. I think that public health officials need to launch graphic campaigns that bring home this reality.

Along those lines, I wonder if a lot of these parents are older? Meaning they grew up post polio /small pox/ deptheria vaccines but prior to measles / mumps vaccines.

In my age group the big killers / cripplers were already taken care of, so kids got their shots and didn't worry about it. However measles and mumps were still common in childhood and the vaccine for them only came around when I was in Jr. High. Everyone I knew who had the measles or mumps was fine, and I never even knew until I was an adult that measles or mumps could cause serious complications ( except for older boys who got mumps ).

If the parents of these unvaccinated kids are older, or they are listening to the grandparents who are in my age group, they might not even realize that mumps and measles can be disabling or fatal.

Maybe some kind of educational campaign might be helpful. Wouldn't apply to the people who are anti- bad in general, of course, but I do wonder if there are others out there who just think of measles and mumps as a minor illness?

[Rebelwife]

So why do the non-religious and believe in science people not vaccinate? I mean the otherwise intelligent people? Upper income, good parents, etc. Why don't they vaccinate? They will say it is the "chemicals" in the vaccines, but let's be honest...the diseases their children could get are much worse than any "chemicals" they would get in a few shots. Can any previous anti vaccers explain it? I really want to understand and don't want to confront friends who believe this. (I am getting a titer test for measles, as I only had one MMR shot. I might need to get a booster on that, too. Thanks, anti vaxing moms.)

I'm not anti-vax but I did spread out my kids' shots when they were younger. The immunization schedule is to some degree designed to "catch 'em while you got 'em" - the kids are in the office today so lets get as many in them as we can so we don't have to worry that the parents wont keep coming back and therefore miss some shots. Since I knew (and my doctor knew) that I was very good about coming in for all the well checks, I did generally try not to have too many shots at any one appointment. My main reason for that was that if there was a reaction to something, it would be harder to isolate which shot caused the problem.

The one shot I did delay as long as possible was the chicken pox vaccine. I was a stay at home mom with healthy children with strong immune systems and my preference was totally for them to catch "wild" chicken pox. My reasoning was that the vax was new enough that no one was sure how long the immunity would actually last and getting chicken pox as an adult is MUCH worse than getting it as a child. I would have rather known they had general immunity from catching it so I wouldn't have to worry about them getting boosters when they were older - when I wasn't the one in charge of getting them to the doctor.

That scenario happened when I was in college - that was right about the time that it was discovered that the measles vaccine didn't last forever and there was a huge outbreak of measles among college age kids who had been vaccinated as babies. I actually had to leave school for 2 weeks because you couldn't be on campus without a booster and I couldn't get the Rubella shot so it took that long to track down a straight measles shot because all anyone had was the MMR booster.

My doctor (a FP, not a pediatrician) was fine with waiting on the chicken pox and even kept a list in his office of people who wanted their kids to get CP so if a wild case came in the parents could arrange a play date. :lol: Unfortunately, no one came in when my kids were little and they did end up getting the vaccines so they could start kindergarten. In that case it wasn't so much that I thought the shot was bad, just that I thought the old-fashioned way was better. Ironically enough, the CP vaccine was the only one where we ever saw a reaction. Each time my oldest daughter got it she ran a really high fever for about 36 hours.

[Alachantal]

I'm in B.C. and along with the measles outbreak here, the school board just called to warn us about two cases of whooping cough in my small community's schools. It makes me want to find a bunker and hide until this all blows over.

I'm with you on this. Prepare for the oncoming panic :sick:

[BravaAmica]

I'm all for the right not to vaccinate. I'm not for the right to spread a potentially fatal or life altering disease among the unsuspecting public because YOU believe something. Herd protection only goes so far.

I disagree. Unless there's a documented, medical contraindication that prohibits vaccinating, everyone must ensure they and their dependents are vaccinated, full stop. Do an alternative schedule, get individual shots rather than the combination shots, get them all at once, but get them.

I disagree with "religious exemptions" for vaccinations. Because the right for "religious freedom" stops with my right not to get pertussis because someone didn't vaccinate because Jesus. Religious freedom doesn't mean the right to deny children life saving medical care or the right to start an epidemic of a preventable disease that impacts people who do not follow that particular branch of crazy.

And if only the anti-vaxers where impacted by their choice not to get the jabs, I wouldn't care. Their selfishness wouldn't potentially harm my family. So, if we're talking about a hypothetical polio epidemic, I say, sure, bring it, as long at it's only the anti-vaxers who get polio. But no, it'd be other people, like my family, who'd get sick.

[ShesCrafty]

My doctor (a FP, not a pediatrician) was fine with waiting on the chicken pox and even kept a list in his office of people who wanted their kids to get CP so if a wild case came in the parents could arrange a play date. :lol: Unfortunately, no one came in when my kids were little and they did end up getting the vaccines so they could start kindergarten. In that case it wasn't so much that I thought the shot was bad, just that I thought the old-fashioned way was better. Ironically enough, the CP vaccine was the only one where we ever saw a reaction. Each time my oldest daughter got it she ran a really high fever for about 36 hours.

It sounds like this occurred some years ago and I hope your doctor is not continuing to promote chicken pox parties. Most doctors are against this practice and there are even places that are prosecuting parents who have these parties.

[Sydney Fox]

And Kristin Cavallari ways in on vaccines :roll: :angry-banghead:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... p=features

(I just read Fox News for the lulz I swears!)

This woman is an idiot. The reason there are so many more kids with autism is not because of vaccines. More autism spectrum children are simply being diagnosed these days than in the past. I had this conversation with the psychologist last year after she had just finished diagnosing my younger daughter as being autistic. I, my older daughter, my siblings, my mother and her father have not been officially diagnosed, but I am certain we are all on the autism spectrum. We are all a little "different" in my family, but it wasn't common to diagnose children in the past unless the autism was severe. There is no increase in the number of people having autism, only an increase in the number being officially diagnosed.

[Hane]

Wish I could dig it up, but recently an English woman posted an article online about her anti-vax mother, one of the crunchiest pro-organic, pro-healthy-diet hippie moms ever. The writer still contracted a host of childhood diseases, suffering so much that she's rabidly pro-vax today.

I was born in 1952, during the great polio epidemic. When I was very little, friends whose moms were nurses weren't allowed to go to the beach or swim in other people's pools, for fear they'd be infected. The daughter of a family friend contracted a vicious form of polio and died within 24 hours. In the 1910s, my grandmother's baby sister died of diphtheria.

Once I started school, it seemed we were getting polio injections (later the Sabin oral vaccines) every year or so. Not to have gotten vaxed was unheard of.

The MMR and DPT shots (measles/mumps/rubella and diphtheria/pertussis/tetanus) are, in my opinion, the best things that could happen to kids. Mumps are agonizing (and can cause sterility in post-pubescent males), and measles can cause blindness. I remember my mom keeping our bedroom dark when my sister and I had the measles.

The past--LEARN FROM IT. Since when are the medical profession, WHO, and CDC less trustworthy than some third-tier basic-cable blonde-of-the-week?

[Arete]

My grandparents could not even say the word "polio" out loud, it was considered that terrifying a disease. It had a euphemism- "the child thief". The only other disease they would refer to with a euphemism was cancer "the evil disease".

My mother almost died in a diphtheria epidemic that killed 9 other children in the village. When you are going to funerals for days, you lose your faith in your natural diet. Seriously, women's sufferage and vaccines were considered MIRACLES by the women who came of age without either.

[Rebelwife]

It sounds like this occurred some years ago and I hope your doctor is not continuing to promote chicken pox parties. Most doctors are against this practice and there are even places that are prosecuting parents who have these parties.

Well, my kids are in MS and HS now so I couldn't say, but I wouldn't be shocked one way or the other. He's not a particularly "my way or else" kind of doctor.

[Mama Mia]

I vaccinated my kids, but did a delayed schedule recommended by their pediatrician. The Chicken pox vaccine and a few others weren't available at the time.

I understand that vaccines are incredibly important, but also understand why someone would be hesitant if they know someone who has hD a adverse reaction. While serious adverse reactions aren't common, they do happen, and acting like vaccines are 100% safe just isn't realistic.

Two of our younger daughters had the guardisil vaccine, one chose not to. I do get concerned with brand new vaccines, testing for immediate reactions and side effects doesn't tell you if there will be a huge increase in infertility or cancer or who knows what else a couple of decades later. With the Guardasil they were all in their mid to late teens and we explained it, and said we thought it would be a good idea, but didn't push it.

Since I was seriously harmed by a medical procedure that is constantly described as safe I a much more skeptical of blanket assurances given by Doctors.

[Cran]

I wonder how many adults, also those who post here, are fully vaccinated? ;)

Btw, in Germany, there are no mandatory vaccinations, and apart from certain subgroups, which obviously exist also in countries with mandatory vaccinations, as seen in this thread, who are opposed to vaccines and will have "measles parties" and stuff, German children are well-vaccinated. I think a law mandating vaccines would only increase resistance in people who are on the fence or anti-vax.

Btw, if I had a child and someone would come to me with the "You need to protect people who can't get vaccinated!", that argument would do absolutely no good with me, I'd tell that person without batting an eye that I do not give a shit about other people, and it wouldn't be a lie. I would vaccinate if I saw a benefit for my child, and for no other earthly reason.