Religious School - Measles Outbreak

[ShesCrafty]

I wonder how many adults, also those who post here, are fully vaccinated? ;)

Btw, in Germany, there are no mandatory vaccinations, and apart from certain subgroups, which obviously exist also in countries with mandatory vaccinations, as seen in this thread, who are opposed to vaccines and will have "measles parties" and stuff, German children are well-vaccinated. I think a law mandating vaccines would only increase resistance in people who are on the fence or anti-vax.

Btw, if I had a child and someone would come to me with the "You need to protect people who can't get vaccinated!", that argument would do absolutely no good with me, I'd tell that person without batting an eye that I do not give a shit about other people, and it wouldn't be a lie. I would vaccinate if I saw a benefit for my child, and for no other earthly reason.

Christ on a cracker, is it a full moon or something? Congratulations on saying the second most horrible thing I've read on FJ in a long time. The only reason you didn't earn the number one spot was because Ken Alexander is on another thread telling women they are partly responsible for their own rape. No one can make you give a shit about other people but thankfully, most people aren't as selfish as you and we as a society (including you) benefit from it.

Oh, and P.S. I'm all caught up on my vaccinations ;). I guess I actually care about my health and the health of others, even if I didn't push them out of my vagina.

[Chowder Head]

I am fully vaccinated. With in the last three years I got re-vaccinated for MMR, pneumonia, whooping cough, and I routinely get my yearly flu shot. I do/did this to make sure my parents, niece, nephews and students I teach are safe. I got a pneumonia shot because i caught it from a student a few years ago and I swear to all that's holy I felt like I was DIEING. I never want to do that again or be a carry to someone that can catch it or anything else that can be prevented. I actual been thinking about talking to my doctor about getting a polio vaccine since I have not been vaccinated since I was 4.

[Sumeri]

So why do the non-religious and believe in science people not vaccinate? I mean the otherwise intelligent people? Upper income, good parents, etc. Why don't they vaccinate? They will say it is the "chemicals" in the vaccines, but let's be honest...the diseases their children could get are much worse than any "chemicals" they would get in a few shots. Can any previous anti vaccers explain it? I really want to understand and don't want to confront friends who believe this. (I am getting a titer test for measles, as I only had one MMR shot. I might need to get a booster on that, too. Thanks, anti vaxing moms.)

It was a whole lot of things for me.

First off, I had been vaccine damaged as a child. After my 6 month round of shots I regressed to the point where I couldn't walk until the age of two. Was unable to hold my head up unassisted for months. Again, though, the Pertussis part of the DTP has changed radically since then, but it's hard to get that out of your mind when you're holding your own 6 month baby. At that time (1995) my doctor flatly refused to selectively immunize, so it made a lot more sense to me to just find another doctor who agreed with me. Within my group this was very, very easy to do - and I'm not talking about some quack, either. We had a wonderful ped in Chicago who took my concerns seriously - and was more than willing to selectively vaccinate my son. As I mentioned before, I wasn't truly ANTI vaccination, I just selectively vaccinated. My son had all but the DPT and varicella, and I waited for the MMR (until I met aforementioned doctor from India).

I also had a friend in who was a malpractice attorney, and worked on many vaccine injury cases. The thing is, a lot of children ARE damaged by vaccines. I don't think that's a good enough reason not to vaccinate, especially now that they have become safer, but I was a hot mess of PPD and anxiety when my son was a baby. And truth is, some kids do die from their vaccinations. Not many, but there is always that chance, and when you're already worried about that and here comes the nurse with a packet of papers to sign saying yes, you're aware that this shot could kill your baby, it's not a great situation.

So, fear is my short answer, I guess. I can totally see where a lot of anti-vax parents are coming from - not so much the Jenny Mc Carthy era ones, as it's widely known that she's spouting a load of old bullshit.

[apple1]

I wonder how many adults, also those who post here, are fully vaccinated? ;)

Btw, in Germany, there are no mandatory vaccinations, and apart from certain subgroups, which obviously exist also in countries with mandatory vaccinations, as seen in this thread, who are opposed to vaccines and will have "measles parties" and stuff, German children are well-vaccinated. I think a law mandating vaccines would only increase resistance in people who are on the fence or anti-vax.

Btw, if I had a child and someone would come to me with the "You need to protect people who can't get vaccinated!", that argument would do absolutely no good with me, I'd tell that person without batting an eye that I do not give a shit about other people, and it wouldn't be a lie. I would vaccinate if I saw a benefit for my child, and for no other earthly reason.

I am fully vaccinated, including having my immunity confirmed by antibody titers, where appropriate. This - rightfully - is a condition of my employment at a pediatric hospital. Just sayin'.

As to my (now grown) kids, and grandkids, they are also fully vaccinated per recommended schedule for their ages.

My hospital has had multiple deaths (kids brought in, they didn't contract it at the hospital) from vaccine-preventable illnesses already in 2014.

[Trynn]

I'm fully vaccinated. Just got the tdap booster, in fact.

Except gardasil. The vaccine was still very new when I was 17/18ish, and my family has always been wary of new vaccines, and I was particularly wary I this one because they were pushing very hard very fast for it to be mandatory.

This is the same reason I got the chicken pox, my parents though he shot was too new. By he time my brother came alone 7 years later, they were more comfortable with it.

As an older adult I've considered getting gardasil, but I'm am asexual, so I would only ever need it if I was raped, which... Ehhh. It could happen, but it seems vey unlikely, especially since most rapes are date rapes, and I'm also aromantic and don't date. I know I could still be raped, but it just seems kinda pointless to try and prepare for a statistical anomaly.

I wasn't even aware you were supposed to get MMR boosters... My parents would've taken care of that growing up, i wouldn't have known what shots i was getting...and as an adult my doctor sends out notices of when I'm die for boosters like DTap, and I always get those. My doc never sent out a note saying I needed another booster...

I have a question: how could a non vaccinated kid pass on be disease to someone who is vaccinated? How would hat harm the vaccinated child?

It could harm those who Legitly CAN'T be vaxed, but how is this harming vaccinated children?

Not trying to argue with anyone, just honestly ignorant.

[salex]

I am fully vaccinated. With in the last three years I got re-vaccinated for MMR, pneumonia, whooping cough, and I routinely get my yearly flu shot. I do/did this to make sure my parents, niece, nephews and students I teach are safe. I got a pneumonia shot because i caught it from a student a few years ago and I swear to all that's holy I felt like I was DIEING. I never want to do that again or be a carry to someone that can catch it or anything else that can be prevented. I actual been thinking about talking to my doctor about getting a polio vaccine since I have not been vaccinated since I was 4.

Me too. I may check to see if I need a TB booster, as I travel a lot throughout the USA, possibly mainly to states that have higher rates of TB than the rest of the country. (A county I was visiting the week before last mentioned they were having an outbreak, so I wondered about the need for a booster--anyone know? )

[apple1]

I have a question: how could a non vaccinated kid pass on be disease to someone who is vaccinated? How would hat harm the vaccinated child?

It could harm those who Legitly CAN'T be vaxed, but how is this harming vaccinated children?

Not trying to argue with anyone, just honestly ignorant.

It can happen, because there are some vaccinated individuals who, for whatever reasons, are not able to develop a protective immune response. (This is a generally a very small percentage).

[amers]

I'm assuming all of the adults in here have had all of their booster shots for all vaccines in which they are required?

You can't blame out breaks solely on the unvaccinated community. Until all adults are up to date on their boosters, until all travelers into our country have up to date vaccinations and until all vaccines are 100% successful (MMR only has a 70-80% success rate. That means not everyone who gets it gets the immunity. Chicken pox is even less.), then you can't blame one part of our society. There are children and adults alike who have health ailments who can't get vaccinations. There are children who have HAD their vaccines who get measles and spread it, etc.

And lots of people automatically call out "Jenny McCarthy did this". She did not. It sounds uninformed. She was promoting cleaner vaccinations, NOT not vaccinating. I rarely hear a person claim to be anti-vaccine because of autism. It's not the only reason people choose not to do it. Rarely, do I hear that. This Kristen Cutler or whatever name is, she does sound uninformed. Autism isn't CAUSED by vaccines. But some individuals have conditions in which getting a vaccine can aggravate or (trigger) it. This is fact. There are law suits in which people are paid money for their vaccine injuries. Even the CDC website lists a possible side effect of MMR as febrile seizures and if you dig deeper, they admit that it can cause chronic long term seizures in people. We have had 2 different pediatricians tell us they have had children go into anaphylatic shock following a vaccine, and both doctors made their patients stay 20 minutes after a shot to be safe. Nothing is one size fits all, for everyone.

Both my kids are vaccinated. But I read a lot from parents whose children were hurt after having them, and who have very valid, very good reasons for why their children can't have them. I can't stand to hear, "It's all those crunchy/autism/religious peoples fault". Cause it's not. You could very easily be part of the problem.

[nelliebelle1197]

I have a two year old.

Breathe in. Breathe out.

It is okay.

Sigh.

Now your mommy anxiety panic attack may continue. I'll let you know if mine ever subsides.

I have a child born six weeks early and another born 14 weeks early. Both are healthy kids. I kind of feel slapped when someone whose child was born basically at maturity throws out a "born early" card. Sorry, but it is a huge trigger for me and I had to get it out there after I read this.

[amers]

I have a child born six weeks early and another born 14 weeks early. Both are healthy kids. I kind of feel slapped when someone whose child was born basically at maturity throws out a "born early" card. Sorry, but it is a huge trigger for me and I had to get it out there after I read this.

So because someone's child was born later than yours, they aren't allowed to say anything about it? There are lots of 37 weekers who end up in the NICU. Not for as long as more preterm, but still it happens and doesn't make it less scary.

[FakePigtails]

It can happen, because there are some vaccinated individuals who, for whatever reasons, are not able to develop a protective immune response. (This is a generally a very small percentage).

Or they can become immune-compromised and their vaccines are no longer the protection they once were. And of course, getting, say, measles or pertussis when you're already going through chemo for your cancer is not likely to end well.

And, count me in as a fully-vaccinated (including boosters) adult on the board. Including Gardasil, and I would have gotten the chicken pox vax had the titer shown that my mild case as a child hadn't given me immunity.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

A lot of people don't know that they should get boosters for the vaccines they got as children, and have no access to medical care to get them, so I'd assume a lot of "well obviously people should all vaccinate, yes" people are needing boosters.

I had all the usual shots available to me as a child (including smallpox!) and I actually caught the chicken pox.

But for years I never really thought about vaccines, I don't have kids and aren't around kids most of the time. Then I got in an accident that required stitches, and in the emergency room when they gave me the tetanus shot, they mentioned as a public health campaign, really adults should get boosters for this that and the other. I have since done it - but I do think for a lot of people (maybe older people, without kids in their lives at the moment) there's this idea of "well, I got my vaccines as a kid, I'm done."

People are realizing more the need for boosters now and it seems the medical community is trying to spread the word. This is a good thing.

[mockingbird]

You can't blame out breaks solely on the unvaccinated community. Until all adults are up to date on their boosters, until all travelers into our country have up to date vaccinations and until all vaccines are 100% successful (MMR only has a 70-80% success rate. That means not everyone who gets it gets the immunity. Chicken pox is even less.), then you can't blame one part of our society. There are children and adults alike who have health ailments who can't get vaccinations. There are children who have HAD their vaccines who get measles and spread it, etc.

For the most part, you can blame it on people who choose not to vaccinate (I'm including adults not up to date on boosters, like pertussis/whooping cough, in this group*). The number of people who can't get a vaccine is relatively small, let's say like 5% of the population. It is true that vaccines might not produce a strong enough immune response in in a minority of people, let's say another 5%. Herd immunity increases with the number of people who are vaccinated. If you only have that small 10% of the population, herd immunity should cover them. The people who could get the vaccine and had a good response to it are going to fight off the random lone measles cases brought in by travelers, and it's very unlikely that it will spread around. After all, MMR were all basically eradicated from the US until recently, due to this effect. Once you have more and more people choosing not to vaccinate, though, there's less of a reserve of people who can easily fight off the illness (let's say, now there's another 20% choosing not to vaccinate, so that brings us to a total of 30% of people who aren't covered, and 70% who are), and now you're going to see the population as a whole fight off that illness less quickly. So now there's a bigger population who are susceptible to the illness and are able to spread it to others who are susceptible.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining that well. But basically people who can't get a vaccine or won't get a response to it is low enough that herd immunity should protect them, if there were to be an exposure in the community. That's the whole point of herd immunity and why mass vaccination works. If everyone else vaccinated, those people would not carry an outbreak - they're outnumbered too much and a lone case would be "taken care of" by the larger, effectively-vaccinated community as a whole. It would die out before it had the chance to hit many more vulnerable people (90% vs. 10%). But herd immunity is strongest when more people have the vaccine, so it's the fact that we are losing numbers on people who get the vaccine, that is leaving those people more vulnerable/open to a larger outbreak now.

*And I agree people don't generally know about this. I mention whooping cough because of the ad campaign in recent years for moms to get the booster so they can't pass it on to their babies.

And lots of people automatically call out "Jenny McCarthy did this". She did not. It sounds uninformed. She was promoting cleaner vaccinations, NOT not vaccinating. I rarely hear a person claim to be anti-vaccine because of autism. It's not the only reason people choose not to do it. Rarely, do I hear that. This Kristen Cutler or whatever name is, she does sound uninformed. Autism isn't CAUSED by vaccines. But some individuals have conditions in which getting a vaccine can aggravate or (trigger) it. This is fact. There are law suits in which people are paid money for their vaccine injuries. Even the CDC website lists a possible side effect of MMR as febrile seizures and if you dig deeper, they admit that it can cause chronic long term seizures in people. We have had 2 different pediatricians tell us they have had children go into anaphylatic shock following a vaccine, and both doctors made their patients stay 20 minutes after a shot to be safe. Nothing is one size fits all, for everyone.

Both my kids are vaccinated. But I read a lot from parents whose children were hurt after having them, and who have very valid, very good reasons for why their children can't have them. I can't stand to hear, "It's all those crunchy/autism/religious peoples fault". Cause it's not. You could very easily be part of the problem.

[nelliebelle1197]

So because someone's child was born later than yours, they aren't allowed to say anything about it? There are lots of 37 weekers who end up in the NICU. Not for as long as more preterm, but still it happens and doesn't make it less scary.

No, I said it was a trigger. I am not allowed those?

[Mama Mia]

No, I said it was a trigger. I am not allowed those?

Not trying to start a war here, but I was always told that 36 weeks was the cut-off date for being considered pre-mature. I don't think they've changed the standards recently as that's the cut-off date for delivery at our local awesome birth center instead of the hospital across the way. And in their sign up materials they state only full-term births are eligible. And they do vbac a and perform c-sections, so it's not like they only take super low risk births.

[Coconut Flan]

I've heard 37 weeks for years. Most 36 weekers don't require NICU services though and if the center is doing C-sections, they surely have facilities for caring for infants that may need some initial assistance.

[Terrie]

I'm up to date. In fact, I just got my pertussis booster last year, because my SiL had a baby, and there was no way I was going to risk exposing my nephew to whooping cough.

[BravaAmica]

I am now up to date. In 2012, I contracted pertussis. I didn't know that the tetnus booster I received while living abroad didn't include pertussis, only tetnus and diptheria. So I got a TDaP as soon as I could.

[Phoebe]

I'm up to date due to working as a nurse with a pediatric population (job #1) and with a geriatric population (job #2). I don't think I could work as a nurse in good conscience if I wasn't completely up to date on my vaccinations. The only vaccines I haven't had are the varicella and Gardasil. I'd had chickenpox by the time the varicella vaccine came out and I am too old to qualify for Gardasil. Otherwise, I would go for both of them.

[Mama Mia]

I've heard 37 weeks for years. Most 36 weekers don't require NICU services though and if the center is doing C-sections, they surely have facilities for caring for infants that may need some initial assistance.

Must be one of those things that vary by region/ physician like when in pregnancy to see an o.b./ midwife and how many ultrasounds are routinely given. Just know that 36 weeks was the full term milestone my daughters and other relatives were told. I'm so old we talked more in months than weeks :lol:

[mockingbird]

I'm up to date. I'm a medical student and we needed titers (levels of antibodies in your blood) for about half of the vaccines and didn't have a high enough level for chicken pox, even though I had chicken pox as a kid. So I had to get that one. I think I had chicken pox like a year before the vaccine came out, ugh... at least I had a mild case!

[nelliebelle1197]

I've heard 37 weeks for years. Most 36 weekers don't require NICU services though and if the center is doing C-sections, they surely have facilities for caring for infants that may need some initial assistance.

37 weeks is not considered premature. 36 weeks or earlier is. My 34 weeker required no special measures. Again, I was just noting a trigger, because I needed to not starting something

[CelticGoddess]

Must be one of those things that vary by region/ physician like when in pregnancy to see an o.b./ midwife and how many ultrasounds are routinely given. Just know that 36 weeks was the full term milestone my daughters and other relatives were told. I'm so old we talked more in months than weeks :lol:

Actually, it was the ACOG who determine what constituted term. They have now redefined term.

https://www.acog.org/About_ACOG/News_Ro ... _Pregnancy

And FTR: I am up to date with my vaccines or have had my titres checked. I'm good, until next year when I get the flu shot again and in 7 years (or get bit by a patient again) I'll get the TDaP again.

[Mama Mia]

Actually, it was the ACOG who determine what constituted term. They have now redefined term.

https://www.acog.org/About_ACOG/News_Ro ... _Pregnancy

And FTR: I am up to date with my vaccines or have had my titres checked. I'm good, until next year when I get the flu shot again and in 7 years (or get bit by a patient again) I'll get the TDaP again.

Good Lord give them another 10 years and everyone will be walking around saying how many days pregnant they are.

Although I guess the reasoning is sound if they are trying to prevent inductions before 39 weeks. Or they could just not do them.

[Chowder Head]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/08/health/wa ... ?hpt=he_c2

woman with measles goes to concert and exposes hundreds.