Debunking fundy reasons for pushing 'modesty'

[JaChelle Sugar]

Seems like the fundies never run out of reasons to try to control what women wear. Debunk one and they'll just trot out another tired chestnut. It's all bullshit really. Strangely there's not much actual 'lists' of why we're supposed to conform to each man's arbitrary standard's but here's what I've got so far:

you want to help the menz guard their eyes

menz will judge you if you don't dress to their standards of modesty (except there is no universal standard)

you ought to respect yourself (Oddly enough I do respect myself, and I don't need to cover what you think should be covered in order to do it.)

to be 'free' of the world's pressure to dress 'slutty'

to attract the right kind of man

to protect yourself from assault (No. No no no no no no no. Just no. How many times do we have to FUCKING go over this?)

God says so

to bless your future husband

to make a statement (and that statement is what? "I'm conforming to a man's standards which may not be another man's standards"?)

to not dress exactly like everyone else; to stand out and be unique (Duggars early years in the matching frumpers, anyone?)

to express the real you, to be treated as a person instead of objectified

to be a subject instead of an object

to show you're thinking for yourself

to not call attention to yourself (yeah, frumpers really blend in don't they, and talking about how modest you are definitely doesn't call attention to yourself)

to set yourself apart from the world

to show outwardly your inner heart

yes menz are responsible for their thoughts/actions but you have a responsibility to not tempt them. You wouldn't offer chocolate cake to a dieter or do drugs in front of a guy trying to stay sober, would you?

Also, for girls and women who feel ugly, the modesty culture is uniquely crushing. The mainstream media says 'cover that up, nobody wants to see that!' and modesty culture says 'cover that up, somebody might find it attractive!'

edited for formatting

[fun2beme]

The irony of drawing attention to one's self by dressing in a manner that makes you stand out in the name of modesty never fails to irk me.

[debrand]

to not dress exactly like everyone else; to stand out and be unique (Duggars early years in the matching frumpers, anyone?)

and

to not call attention to yourself (yeah, frumpers really blend in don't they, and talking about how modest you are definitely doesn't call attention to yourself)[/b

Don't these two reasons contradict one another. How do I not call attention to myself and stand out at the same time?

to show outwardly your inner heart

What is my inner heart? I would rather keep the insides of my heart safely in my chest. If they mean my personality, then it is up to me to decide what clothes best express who I am. Maybe a short skirt, high heels and a corset best describes who I am at the moment.

[FJismyheadship]

i like flashy bright clothes but i cover up. am i modest?

[defraudingjezebel]

The irony of drawing attention to one's self by dressing in a manner that makes you stand out in the name of modesty never fails to irk me.

I've said this in a thread about some fundy family (maybe the Rodrigues family?): the whole idea of dressing ultra-modestly often comes off as a special snowflake-y type of rule. I feel that if the rest of society conformed to their current standards of dress, they would up the ante and dress even more conservatively. They want to come off as some bastion of wholesomeness and tradition and they want to be able to hold themselves above the rest of us sex-crazed heathens.

[HereticHick]

In all honesty, my husband likes me best in clothes that I half-jokingly call "tight, bright & modern." Shouldn't I put his wishes first :D ?

On a more serious note-- I grew up in a small Appalachian town where the majority people were, and still are, Southern Baptist. I can only think of 1 or 2 girls who never wore pants, and they tended to belong to even more fundy denominations than SBC. Now I live in a big metro area. My question to those of you still living in rural areas with lots of fundies-- have the Southern Baptists got more into modest dress in the last 20 years? Is it the influence of ATI?

[nausicaa]

I've said this in a thread about some fundy family (maybe the Rodrigues family?): the whole idea of dressing ultra-modestly often comes off as a special snowflake-y type of rule. I feel that if the rest of society conformed to their current standards of dress, they would up the ante and dress even more conservatively. They want to come off as some bastion of wholesomeness and tradition and they want to be able to hold themselves above the rest of us sex-crazed heathens.

This.

I read a blog by two SAHDs in very rural SC who make their own pioneer style dresses and crocheted head coverings. The one sister had a post about modesty, and how dressing in a modern way, even if just as modest as she is (i.e., cowl neck sweater and chevron print maxi skirt) was not as God honoring. She seemed to conveniently forget that fashion is relative, and failed to realize pioneer calico dresses are her own personal fashion. Jesus and his peeps didn't wear chevrons or calico.

She did speak with pride about how often they get stopped and asked about their clothes and religion. People often ask to take her picture. Because...they're so modest.

[Hane]

Mormons seem to be making an even bigger shebang about modesty in recent years, focusing on young kids in ways they didn't in the past.

Adult Mormons tend to dress in ways that ensure their sacred undergarments are covered: nothing low-cut, sleeveless, form-fitting, or shorter than knee length. These rules, in years past, tended to apply mostly to adults who had "been through the temple," so were given the garments to wear.

Lately, I've seen a lot of stuff on Mormon mommy blogs about applying the same rules of dress even to very little children: making tots wear tee shirts under their sundresses, for example--basically making kids dress as if they wore garments and had to cover them up.

As is common among the super-religious in mainstream society, it's easier to pick out the women than the men. On an ex-Mormon blog, one guy wrote about seeing a group of Mormon girls on vacation in Hawaii. They were wearing brightly colored sundresses--with black leggings and black tee shirts under them. "They looked ridiculous," he opined. I wondered why they just didn't toss on a pretty shrug and call it a day.

[Swamptribe]

The more I study them, the more I realize that fundies are very shallow people. They preach judging others on appearance instead of substance; seeming to confuse the two. Fundie circles set ridiculous standards of behavior, perfection if you will, that are almost impossible to achieve. Then they dedicate themselves to looking down on those who don't meet these asinine standards.

Their theology is made up of legalistic rules, again with emphasis on appearance instead of substance They live in a cut and paste, black and white world. In the fundy verse, as long as you look and play the part. As long as you don't rock the boat. Just dress in the accepted uniform of the herd, use the right words, follow the rules with a huge fake smile plastered on your face, you're headed straight to heave. They seek godliness in conformity and appearance. In following along with the group.

[louisa05]

I think there has been a revival of the modesty in clothing obsession in recent years. It is probably related to changes in fashion. Those of you who lived through the 80s/early 90s can look back and see why--we wore baggy tops, high waisted pleated pants, longer skirts and shorts, and such. When clothes became more form fitting again and hem lines went up and skinny jeans and short shorts came back...the fundies got scared. Because they are very good at being scared.

[fun2beme]

A female in a full-fledged fundie outfit would draw my attention more than, say, an Amish or Mennonite. Not sure why - maybe it's because I think that the Amish, etc, are just going about their way, while the fundies are judging.

Not sure if anyone is familiar with the Amish-Mennonite cultures, but I work in D.C. and see these groups doing sight-seeing. Often, the men are holding maps and looking bewildered. I'm never sure if it's appropriate for me (a female) to approach them and ask if they need help. Is this considered too bold or unseemly? I don't think twice about asking others if I can assist, but always hesitate with Amish, etc., for fear of being inadvertantly offensive.

[defraudingjezebel]

A female in a full-fledged fundie outfit would draw my attention more than, say, an Amish or Mennonite. Not sure why - maybe it's because I think that the Amish, etc, are just going about their way, while the fundies are judging.

Not sure if anyone is familiar with the Amish-Mennonite cultures, but I work in D.C. and see these groups doing sight-seeing. Often, the men are holding maps and looking bewildered. I'm never sure if it's appropriate for me (a female) to approach them and ask if they need help. Is this considered too bold or unseemly? I don't think twice about asking others if I can assist, but always hesitate with Amish, etc., for fear of being inadvertantly offensive.

I agree w/ you re: conservative Amish and Mennonite clothing. I think its because firstly, most of us are more used to seeing their clothing because they're portrayed in movies, TV shows, etc. For me, Amish and Mennonite "plain dress" never ever struck me the same way fundies' clothing does because the Amish typically aren't heavy evangelizers. And I've only had limited experiences with some Mennonites, but they never, ever made me feel as if I were somehow less of a person because I was not wearing clothes to their standards.

Also, regarding you last question... again, I am by no means anything close to knowing anything about Anabaptists beliefs but I think it would be totally fine for you to offer help. If they're out in D.C. as tourists, I doubt they'd be offended by someone kindly offering help!

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think there has been a revival of the modesty in clothing obsession in recent years. It is probably related to changes in fashion. Those of you who lived through the 80s/early 90s can look back and see why--we wore baggy tops, high waisted pleated pants, longer skirts and shorts, and such. When clothes became more form fitting again and hem lines went up and skinny jeans and short shorts came back...the fundies got scared. Because they are very good at being scared.

You have a point.

Clothes that were part of my normal wardrobe back then look like fundie outfits now. I remember wearing a full, mid-calf denim skirt to school and thinking it was the coolest thing ever. My tops were all enormous. I often wore pantyhose with my skirts, even on really hot days, and wore closed shoes if I was going to a party or working.

I also remember things suddenly swinging more conservative in general society in the 1980s. AIDS terrified people, and there was this sudden push - even in godless hippie high schools like mine - toward monogamy and away from casual sex.

[Becoming_Me]

A female in a full-fledged fundie outfit would draw my attention more than, say, an Amish or Mennonite. Not sure why - maybe it's because I think that the Amish, etc, are just going about their way, while the fundies are judging.

Not sure if anyone is familiar with the Amish-Mennonite cultures, but I work in D.C. and see these groups doing sight-seeing. Often, the men are holding maps and looking bewildered. I'm never sure if it's appropriate for me (a female) to approach them and ask if they need help. Is this considered too bold or unseemly? I don't think twice about asking others if I can assist, but always hesitate with Amish, etc., for fear of being inadvertantly offensive.

Amish around here are always smile and wave from their buggies. They seem quite friendly and some of them will chat but a lot of Amish around here don't know English well. The Amish guys don't seem scared to talk to English women. So I don't think it would be offensive to offer help.

[JaChelle Sugar]

Fundie outfits (bonus points if it involves a too-large tee with 'I love homeschooling' in terrible fabric paint glue stuff written across the front and back) make me feel much more uncomfortable than the ladies in hijab (hijabi?).

[EmiGirl]

In all honesty, my husband likes me best in clothes that I half-jokingly call "tight, bright & modern." Shouldn't I put his wishes first :D ?

On a more serious note-- I grew up in a small Appalachian town where the majority people were, and still are, Southern Baptist. I can only think of 1 or 2 girls who never wore pants, and they tended to belong to even more fundy denominations than SBC. Now I live in a big metro area. My question to those of you still living in rural areas with lots of fundies-- have the Southern Baptists got more into modest dress in the last 20 years? Is it the influence of ATI?

I'm a southern baptist and I wear jeans to church even. In fact I don't know any SBC girls who only wear skirts/dresses.

[CynicMom]

Modesty standards cause the problem they are designed to prevent.

[doggie]

Modesty standards cause the problem they are designed to prevent.

I agree. burka's are the worst they open up the imagination and sexual thoughts like nothing else. Fundies just can't comprehend how hidden bodies is far more enticing then constant exposed parts.

[FloraKitty35]

The irony of drawing attention to one's self by dressing in a manner that makes you stand out in the name of modesty never fails to irk me.

It's says the same thing that dressing provocatively does; "LOOK AT ME, I KNOW I AM HOT SHIT!"

[August]

You have a point.

Clothes that were part of my normal wardrobe back then look like fundie outfits now. I remember wearing a full, mid-calf denim skirt to school and thinking it was the coolest thing ever. My tops were all enormous. I often wore pantyhose with my skirts, even on really hot days, and wore closed shoes if I was going to a party or working.

I also remember things suddenly swinging more conservative in general society in the 1980s. AIDS terrified people, and there was this sudden push - even in godless hippie high schools like mine - toward monogamy and away from casual sex.

I disagree. Yes our shirts bloused, but what about the mesh shirt over a tank? I had a neon pink mini skirt, and several denim ones. And a tartan one too (dear god). I did have a buffalo girl skirt as well, but fashion ran the gamut, at least where I lived. And the cut of a swimsuit!

http://exshoesme.com/2012/06/18/buffalo-gals/

[miffy]

Most of the Mormon fashion bloggers do modesty well IMO. If you saw one of them out you would only notice the glamour, not that they are being obviously modest.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I disagree. Yes our shirts bloused, but what about the mesh shirt over a tank? I had a neon pink mini skirt, and several denim ones. And a tartan one too (dear god). I did have a buffalo girl skirt as well, but fashion ran the gamut, at least where I lived. And the cut of a swimsuit!

http://exshoesme.com/2012/06/18/buffalo-gals/

Found a good collection of 1980s fashion pics:

http://just80sfashion.tumblr.com/

I tended to avoid tank tops because they lacked shoulder pads, lol. My mesh top had an inside-out t-shirt under it. I also remember that it was possible for a number of sitcom actresses to continue filming throughout their pregnancies, and have their bumps hidden by the clothes. I hated the fact that my kids came along right as the fashion trend changed to tiny tops and low-rise pants - did that look ever look good any anyone over 18?

[docmom]

Found a good collection of 1980s fashion pics:

http://just80sfashion.tumblr.com/

I tended to avoid tank tops because they lacked shoulder pads, lol. My mesh top had an inside-out t-shirt under it. I also remember that it was possible for a number of sitcom actresses to continue filming throughout their pregnancies, and have their bumps hidden by the clothes. I hated the fact that my kids came along right as the fashion trend changed to tiny tops and low-rise pants - did that look ever look good any anyone over 18?

I had the long denim prairie style skirt with long cotton white slip under it (ruffles showing under the hem of the skirt)- worn with ankle sock and Tretorns! I had a nice figure in the 80s and completely hid it. Now that my body has been disfigured by 3 kids (and age, and eating) I wish the 80s were back!!! (but only for the fashion!) The amazing thing is that I was covering up in the 80s my mother was buying me tight designer jeans and mini-skirts which I refused to wear!