Dateable Girls Shut Up/Justin Lookadoo MERGE

[Chicken bones]

Apparently there is a group of students from a nearby church youth group that made a video rebuttal. Good for them!

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Youth-gr ... #teenvideo

I am not surprised at the kids' responses though. It's a large-ish high school (probably 2000 kids in three grades), with a diverse population. (Back when I was in school, we had large influxes of non-Christian immigrant communities - Kurds, Russian Jews, Cambodians, etc) into the school system. And to a PP, yes, there probably is that much spare money in the budget for crap like this. It's a relatively wealthy district.

[Pam]

Found this on wikipedia:

So his hunter-gatherer metaphor doesn't really work.

Like many other extreme patriarchalists that I have read, he views the hunter-gatherer as fitting into his strict gender roles and rules paradigm...the man alone is the hunter-gatherer, and the woman just sits quietly at home, looking pretty and girly, and, I dunno, practicing thinking about him, maybe...rather than actually educating himself about the real world gender roles in hunting and gathering societies.

[Anny Nym]

he views the hunter-gatherer as fitting into his strict gender roles and rules paradigm...the man alone is the hunter-gatherer, and the woman just sits quietly at home, looking pretty and girly,

Everytime someone mentions this illogical, anthropological/historical complete wrong and just plain fuckin´dumb bullshit, I ask them if they just went to school or were actually attending classes too (okay, this joke may work better in german, but you all get the picture ^^).

I call this "Flintstones- romanticism". Seriously, next step is actually believing, the early humans rode dinosaurs while their housewives used tiny pink mammoths as dishwashers... :angry-banghead:

[Pam]

I call this "Flintstones- romanticism". Seriously, next step is actually believing, the early humans rode dinosaurs while their housewives used tiny pink mammoths as dishwashers... :angry-banghead:

Funny you should say that, as earlier today I said in another thread here that there are some folks who seem to believe that The Flintstones was an animated docudrama.

[Mice]

I found the blog post of one of the students at the assembly. Interesting read on the presentation itself.

notblackandwhitethoughts.blogspot.com/2013/11/justin-lookadoo-and-maybe-lookadouche.html?m=1

I would like to think this guy will have a hard time finding work again, but I imagine he will just end up catering more to churches and Christian schools going forward, where his dickish message will be welcome.

That student's blog post was well done. She goes through great pains to say how her commentary is specific to the what Lookadoo said at the school rather than what his religiously affiliated website says. He actually comes off as more of a douche based on the presentation than from the views outlined on the website. It looks like he was basically an asshat to the kids who were questioning him - they weren't at all doing the shutting up that he just told them they should be doing!

[GeoBQn]

I recommend the book Paleofantasy by Marlene Zuk. It explains everything that is wrong with trying to base our lives on our (mis)conceptions of early homo sapien life.

[RosyDaisy]

Oh, so this is the dude my nieces were cackling about. I'm glad they saw through his bullshit.

[Soulhuntress]

All I can say to Lookadouche is what Dorothy would say:

http://youtu.be/drBze2m26qc

[Peas n carrots]

It's made international news. I'm glad folks all over the world now know what an asshole he is.

I liked this commentary in particular:

Although many people are posting humorous comments to his Facebook page there is something really quite sinister about this man. He is policing what women wear and suggesting that any unwanted physical attention they receive shall be their own entire fault. He is also a middle aged married man that is talking about teenage girls' ‘hot little bodies.’ He is professing to be a Christian and is using this to say and write the most inappropriate material to teenage children. There are so many things wrong with this picture that it’s incredible.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/10452669/Justin-Lookadoo-Lookadouche-How-the-hell-is-a-Christian-man-getting-away-with-calling-little-girls-bodies-hot.html

[alchemy]

From peeking at his Facebook page he's naming his kid Geronimo? Geronimo Lookadoo. Poor kid.

eta: poor kid not just because of the name, but for being raised by such a douche.

This guy is a Simpson's Poochie, trying sochard to be cool with the hair, "hip" website, and all the webspeak ( U R not datable. No, I R not :lol: ) Like Poochie the kids see through it all and probably wouldn't mind seeing this ass launched into space never to be seen again

[Pam]

And Shitstain Mary weighs in on the topic

sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/11/17/truthful-dating-and-relationship-advice-is-terribly-sexist-does-that-mean-reality-is-sexist-too/

To our eyes, that’s pretty basic stuff; he has simply figured out that almost everyone prefers natural sex roles and characteristics (it’s called sexual di-morphism for a reason) over today’s enforced androgyny, or even worse, reversed male/female roles.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Geronimo Lookadoo. OMG that name is child abuse. I hope they plan on homeschooling just for the safety of that poor child from bullies. That is the kind of name that gets you laughed at.

[Trynn]

Sexual di-morphism? What the hell is that?

[jaynie]

Sexual di-morphism? What the hell is that?

It just means that the males and females of the species differ in some way. Technically that can include behaviour, but it doesn't have to, and I have no idea how SSM thought she was proving her point with that. Humans aren't even that dimorphic compared to a lot of animals, even physically.

[artdecades]

From peeking at his Facebook page he's naming his kid Geronimo? Geronimo Lookadoo. Poor kid.

eta: poor kid not just because of the name, but for being raised by such a douche.

This guy is a Simpson's Poochie, trying sochard to be cool with the hair, "hip" website, and all the webspeak ( U R not datable. No, I R not :lol: ) Like Poochie the kids see through it all and probably wouldn't mind seeing this ass launched into space never to be seen again

He claims to be native american

[FloraKitty35]

Geronimo Lookadoo. OMG that name is child abuse. I hope they plan on homeschooling just for the safety of that poor child from bullies. That is the kind of name that gets you laughed at.[/quote

That sounds like a male strippers name. He could be character in a Magic Mike sequel. "Ladies Geronimo's got a hard arrow for you and he don't mind if you look a do all you want."

[Mudball]

When I was in HS we had a speaker who was on The Cosby Show (played one of Denise' s dates) come slut shame us for an hour. It was the 80s.

[slickcat79]

I went to a residential high school, and they once brought in a local police officer to talk to us about drugs. At one point she said something like, "If you're going to come back here high, you should just not come back." All the school admins were behind her freaking out, since they were in charge of our whereabouts and safety. We were never allowed to leave campus without people knowing what we were doing.

That was also the same assembly where one of the biggest druggies in school asked the officer what "doobie" meant :lol: She couldn't understand why everyone was cracking up laughing. That kid eventually got kicked out of school, and ended up in the honors program at our state university :?

[duplessis3]

Apparently just asking a guy out makes you undateable. Which I am because I, in a manner of speaking, asked my husband 22 years out.

[Savoring Samsara]

#lookadouche :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have hope for the future of America.

So I took the quiz...guess what? U R DATELESS!!!11!

Being one of those ketchup opening bottle loud mouth tarts didn't stop me from getting married!

Yikes, that screenshot. 1993 called and would like their graphic design back, please.

[discordia]

Lookadoo--The guy sounds like a Peter Pan style douchelord--it is hard to belive that a school would allow him to speak

It is pretty hilarious that shitstain Mary thinks his talk was successful when it wasn't....what is with patriarchs being soooo convinced that their shit works when everyone is miserable

[Talitha Cumi]

My high school brought in motivational speakers for mandatory assemblies once or twice a year. The worst one was a guy who brought on two people to speak about how they were addicted to crack, but they were proud that they had been clean for a whole 9 days. The whole thing seemed really inappropriate, and I think the principal got on the PA system to apologize for it the next day. They also brought in a famous soccer player who went to my school, and he was a terrible public speaker. One of the things he said was, and I quote verbatim, "Yeah . . . setting goals and stuff."

We had at least one assembly where the speaker talked about how she had been a Satanist and could see demons. Ohhhhh Adventism. :confusion-scratchheadyellow:

[doggie]

good article on how the screwed up ideas happen.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-l ... 93713.html

By now, Justin Lookadoo's dating advice to young women and men has been thoroughly exposed and rightly mocked. Where did he get these crazy ideas that women are best left covered up and quiet, while men are just naturally prone to follow their lusts?

Probably from the Bible. Oops.

And that is why in the long run it matters little how much backlash gets directed at this man and his books. As most of us know, he is hardly the only one teaching this stuff. Others will reassure him over the weekend that he is being persecuted for doing the Lord's work. Others will replace him if he opts out of the game.

So what does that mean for the rest of us who are trying to raise daughters and sons to understand their own worth, dignity, and potential? If we ignore Lookadoo's advice, and the teachings of others like him, does that mean we have to ignore the Bible?

No. But it does mean we have to read the Bible thoughtfully.

The Bible and Gender Roles

It would take many articles to get into all the relevant biblical texts. Instead, let's consider just one passage, a rather notorious one: 1 Timothy 2:8-14 (quoted here from the NRSV):

I desire, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument; also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

There it is: Dress modestly. Keep quiet. Don't blame the guy; he's just doing what you tell him to do.

Why is this in the Bible?

Here's the short story: The language and teachings of this letter (First Timothy) suggest it comes from the early second century, sometime after the year 100. Its instructions tell its readers to live according to established social conventions. It tells Christians to fit into established cultural notions of good behavior, so they won't provoke hostility or get labeled as troublemakers. Guess what those cultural notions included? That's right: modestly dressed women, silent wives, and men need to look out lest they get caught by -- you know -- those wily ways of women.

Consider this snippet from the wider culture, which appears in an ethical treatise written around the same time as 1 Timothy:

Women who eat and drink all sorts of extravagant dishes and dress themselves sumptuously, wearing things that women are given to wearing, are decked out for seduction into all manner of vice, not only the bed but also the commission of other wrongful deeds.

Yep, those women who aren't humble or dressed right are probably out to seduce. We've heard this excuse before. And still do. Too often.

And this advice, from the Greek author Plutarch, written a little later than 1 Timothy:

Not only the arm of the virtuous woman, but her speech as well, ought to be not for the public, and she ought to be modest and guarded about saying anything in the hearing of outsiders, since it is an exposure of herself; for in her talk can be seen her feelings, character, and disposition. . . . A woman ought to do her talking either to her husband or through her husband, and she should not be aggrieved if, like the flute-player, she makes a more impressive sound through a tongue not her own.

Plutarch explains the belief that women who show too much arm are revealing too much of who they really are. Plutarch's head would explode if he walked into a mall today. Another worry for Plutarch: women who talk too much are likewise exposing themselves. If she has something to say, surely her man can say it for her.

And from the philosopher-theologian Philo, writing a few decades earlier than 1 Timothy:

Woman is more accustomed to be deceived than man. For his judgment, like his body, is masculine and is capable of dissolving or destroying the designs of deception; but the judgment of woman is more feminine, and because of softness she easily gives way and is taken in by plausible falsehoods which resemble the truth.

Men strong; women gullible. Men hard; women soft. *Grunt*

Make fun of Plutarch, Philo, and their philosophical contemporaries all you want, but they were doing the best they could (maybe), based on ancient understandings of what we would today call anatomy, biology, and social well-being.

But we know now that they are wrong.

Very wrong.

Reading the Bible Thoughtfully

What should we do with 1 Timothy 2:8-14, then? What does it mean to read this passage intelligently?

First, it means to recognize that the Bible also contains many counter-examples. I wish there were more, but still there are many biblical passages that present us with speaking women; women who lead in public, influential ways; women who wisely secure God's blessings for themselves and their neighbors; women who out-do the men around them in faithfulness and insight; strong women, even warrior-types who might laugh at this whole conversation. These additional passage should make us regard the premises of 1 Timothy 2:8-14 with a boatload of skepticism.

Second, it means we have to acknowledge that the passage is indebted to -- it is trapped within -- ancient assumptions about what it meant to be male and female. The passage is borrowing from relatively widely accepted (accepted among many ancient men, at least) understandings. The passage says, essentially, "Hey, people, just act like how you know good, upstanding folk are supposed to act."

That might be a dangerous form of theological reasoning to use in any cultural setting. At least, I think so.

But much more dangerous is the belief that 1 Timothy 2:8-14 is not beholden to a particular ancient setting, that the passage somehow offers universal laws and truths that cover all people of all times in all places and cultures. If you go that route as a biblical interpreter -- as Justin Lookadoo might be doing in his books and Web-based videos -- then those newfangled things like science, sociology, and feminism don't get a voice today in rightly defining what it means to be human, what it means to be male and female, what it means to live in relationship.

What's more arbitrary? To believe -- as I do -- that the instructions of 1 Timothy 2:8-14 lose credibility because of their dependence on outdated, misguided social conventions, and because of other biblical affirmations? Or to believe -- as some persist in doing -- that God doesn't care about all the good stuff we've learned in the last few millennia through scientific discovery, deep listening to our neighbors, and our trial-and-error efforts to understand what human dignity is all about?

For Further Reading