VF'ers: Assisted suicide is exactly the same as abortion

[RachelB]

After watching the documentary How to Die in Oregon I'm a supporter of assisted suicide. I was raised to believe that it was just bad, but watching that made me realize that if I was in many of those situations I would want the option for assisted suicide.

I haven't seen How to Die in Oregon. But when I was 14, my grandmother was dying of congestive heart failure. In her more lucid moments she described it as the feeling of someone sitting on her chest and slowly crushing her. The rest of the time, she alternated between full-on panic and moaning I want to die. Seeing her suffer, while no one took seriously her requests to be let go, gutted me. She was terminally ill and she knew it. She was in a lot of pain. And she was terrified. What my extended family did to keep her alive, they did against her expressed wishes.

I think better palliative care is part of the answer. I think written directives are part of the answer-- it's clear to me that even if you're communicative, people will sometimes dismiss what you say as being a sign that you're not in your right mind. But I also think it's important for people who are suffering from something for which there is no treatment to have some say in the manner of their death if they want it, even if it means I will get to spend less time with some people I love very much.

[EmiGirl]

Personally I'm more in favor for assisted suicide than I am abortion for the simple fact that at least the person choosing it has a say in it and is mentally competent whereas the fetus/baby/whatever you want to call it really doesn't get or could even have an opinion about his or her death.

That being said, I realize that most people here don't feel like I do about abortion. I hate it and wish that it didn't exist (though I know there are circumstances when it's necessary for mental/physical health reasons). That being said, I'm not going to tell someone else what to do with her body just as I don't want anyone telling me what to do with mine.

[Vex]

How can you say you hate abortion and wish it doesn't exist but be okay with it being used for 'mental/physical health reasons'? I mean, that's a pretty broad scope. I don't understand the dichotomy. What makes it okay for someone to say 'I don't want this baby because it's incompatible with life' but not 'I don't want this baby because I am not at a point in my life where I can be an effective parent?'. Forced pregnancy seems so barbaric to me - and I'm an adoptee so I wouldn't exist if my biological mother had chosen abortion.

I am genuinely curious.

[formergothardite]

I thought she meant the mental or physical health of the mother.

I don't love abortion but it is one of those facts of life that making illegal won't do anything to stop.

[Vex]

Even so, I'm still wondering how that can be okay but other forms of abortion aren't. It seems contradictory to me and I don't really understand that point of view.

I am not a fan of abortion but I am absolutely a supporter of choice. An ideal world to me isn't one where abortion doesn't exist but rather a world where it isn't needed.

[JMarie]

Thanks for the link. Just read the story, I feel bad for the hospital staff that they had to deal w/ these loons!

Their baby was in NICU and/or a transitional nursery for over four months. That bill has to be at least a few million dollars. Did they expect the NICU staff to go without paychecks, just because they couldn't pay the bill while refusing government help for said bill? And I can't help but think that if she had been seeing an OB/GYN, and not a "midwife," the incompetent cervix could have been discovered earlier and managed properly. The mother later had two more kids, and there doesn't seem to be any issues with those pregnancies. If an incompetent cervix was present, would it affect every pregnancy?

[Stephanie66]

In retrospect, I think the hospital was trying to explain the law to them, that their (likely) buddy former Governor George W Bush put in place. If their baby had no chance of survival, and they had no way to pay for it, they HAD to terminate life support or refuse life support altogether. It was the freaking LAW in Texas.

[Full enough quiver]

Even so, I'm still wondering how that can be okay but other forms of abortion aren't. It seems contradictory to me and I don't really understand that point of view.

I am not a fan of abortion but I am absolutely a supporter of choice. An ideal world to me isn't one where abortion doesn't exist but rather a world where it isn't needed.

I feel exactly the same way. I wish we lived in a world where every pregnancy was wanted, and mothers and babies never had life threatening complications, and everyone died peacefully and painlessly in their sleep of old age. Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world. I don't get why some of the most "pro life" people are for guns and the death penalty. If all life is sacred, shouldn't ALL life be sacred?

[salex]

I feel exactly the same way. I wish we lived in a world where every pregnancy was wanted, and mothers and babies never had life threatening complications, and everyone died peacefully and painlessly in their sleep of old age. Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world. I don't get why some of the most "pro life" people are for guns and the death penalty. If all life is sacred, shouldn't ALL life be sacred?[/quote]

Wait, you are forgetting the way they interpret the Bible--the death penalty is in the Bible for murderers (and others). And, women can't have abortions because, per genesis having babies is God's punishment on women for Eve's actions. You can't let murderers and women go around unpunished, after all.

"Taking one's punishment" is so key in many forms of Christianity.

Remember, the story is that lightening rods were considered evil because the protected people from the punishment of God.... .evolvefish.com/freewrite/franklgt.htm. Today, more and more I hear radio ministers rant on about how cancer is likely God trying to make you stop some secret sin.

It is all about punishment.

[Terrie]

In retrospect, I think the hospital was trying to explain the law to them, that their (likely) buddy former Governor George W Bush put in place. If their baby had no chance of survival, and they had no way to pay for it, they HAD to terminate life support or refuse life support altogether. It was the freaking LAW in Texas.

Personally, I just don't believe their report on how the hospital/doctors handled their case. You can practically feel the smarmy "We're better than those worldly medical personnel" oozing off the screen. In particular, I think the claim they were privately praised for being determined to pay the bills themselves (or at least to foist the bills off on other Christians) is horseshit. I'm betting the hospital was pushing for Medicare and such because they were seriously concerned that the family would not get him the type of follow up care he needed once out of the hospital's sight. Sure, the family insists on heroic measures to save an infant's life, but important routine medical care always seems to fall by the wayside with these types.

[2xx1xy1JD]

How can you say you hate abortion and wish it doesn't exist but be okay with it being used for 'mental/physical health reasons'? I mean, that's a pretty broad scope. I don't understand the dichotomy. What makes it okay for someone to say 'I don't want this baby because it's incompatible with life' but not 'I don't want this baby because I am not at a point in my life where I can be an effective parent?'. Forced pregnancy seems so barbaric to me - and I'm an adoptee so I wouldn't exist if my biological mother had chosen abortion.

I am genuinely curious.

It's possible to dislike a choice that someone makes, while at the same time realizing that the choice is theirs to make.

[artdecades]

I almost can understand the comparison, but not for the reasons these assholes state. Both assisted suicide and abortion are about body autonomy and rights for a living human being with his or her mental facilities. Just as a woman should be able to decide to not be pregnant, a dying person should decide that they want to end their life on their terms. That's not what these loons are saying though. They are so focused on giving voices to the unborn that they are not listening to what people who are living and breathing want.

[EmiGirl]

I feel exactly the same way. I wish we lived in a world where every pregnancy was wanted, and mothers and babies never had life threatening complications, and everyone died peacefully and painlessly in their sleep of old age. Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world. I don't get why some of the most "pro life" people are for guns and the death penalty. If all life is sacred, shouldn't ALL life be sacred?

THat's pretty much what I meant. The life/mental health of the mother. Though I guess I could understand if the baby is going to be severely disabled or constantly in pain how someone would want to, I could never do it myself. But like I said, I'm not going to tell someone else what to do.

I do consider myself to be pro-life and pro-choice. Despite what people in my church say, I don't think that the death penalty is right at all. I don't like guns, but I respect people's right to own and carry them if that's what the want.

[JesusFightClub]

A friend of mine was on chemo for a cancer which was moving rapaciously through her body. She refused the chemo at first, because it wasn't possible to save her, just allow her to live a little longer. They talked her into it, but now after surgery and chemo she's towards the end and they've stopped chemo altogether. Life and death are complex things.

In the case of my friend, she is alive and able to say "You know what, you're right. This is my curtain call and after that, that's me gone. " This sums it up amazingly:

Both assisted suicide and abortion are about body autonomy and rights for a living human being with his or her mental facilities. Just as a woman should be able to decide to not be pregnant, a dying person should decide that they want to end their life on their terms.