My parents believed in May's supposed Rapture

[antifundie]

Parents are supposed to make decisions...when their kids are small. Not when they are 25. They should have raised you to learn to make decisions for yourself. I'm sorry that they didn't, but you have the POWER and ABILITY to re-claim that life for yourself. Have you read "Quivering Daughters" (the book) by Hilary McFarland? I know my library has it--yours may as well if you can't buy it. It might help.

I realize that you're in a bad place, but you have to take a step. You've already done so well by going to school and seeing the doctor--can you take that one step further, and perhaps call that hotline, and explain your situation, or see if you can see a therapist through your doctor's office?

Is there a church (NORMAL church--like Episcopal or Methodist or Presbyterian or something) that you could start attending so that you have some social and spiritual support? Do you have a car?

You quit drinking, right? You started going to school, on your own, right? Look at what you've accomplished with NOTHING!!! That right there is remarkable--you are a strong woman, even if you don't feel like it. If you can go to school on your own, you can go to a new church on your own, right? Or call a counselor on your own?

Other practical matters: Do you have a copy of your birth certificate, Social Security card, and driver license/state ID card/Passport? Please get these documents (CERTIFIED birth certificate--not the fancy one from the hospital if you have that) and keep them in a safe and accessible place. Normally, they say not to keep these things in your purse, but I'd say that you should--along with your medications. You need to be able to grab those items at a moment's notice.

Excuses: :) Try, as much as possible, to focus on the present. Yes, you have disadvantages, yes, you have to work through your past, and that's important--but TODAY is also important, your future is also important. Can you take a tiny step today that will put you closer to being free? Can you make a list of 3 things you want out of life, and think about tiny ways to get there? What does freedom look like to you? Can you do something to cement that commitment to yourself? For example, when I decided on something once, I bought myself a cheap-o ring, so that I wouldn't forget what I had promised myself.

[VodouDoll]

Do you mean like when my mother and I are fighting and she says 'Oh Anno you're so unreasonable!' even though I can't say things like 'Oh mother, you're so emotionally crippled!'

What would happen if you said it? What is the absolute worst thing that could possibly happen? She'd cry? She'd yell at you? She'd have to face an unpleasant truth about herself? What?

What does this mean? I don't think so. I mean I think I'd stop seeing my friends if she said so. But I don't think she'd say so.

Why would you stop seeing your friends if she told you to? Why wouldn't you just tell her no, that request is unreasonable and unwelcome?

I thought that's what parents were supposed to do.

Not when you're an adult. When you're an adult you're supposed to make all of your decisions for yourself. All of them. You can and often should take others' feelings and advice into account, but the buck stops with you. You are the only one with a vote.

[AnnoDomini]

Parents are supposed to make decisions...when their kids are small. Not when they are 25. They should have raised you to learn to make decisions for yourself. I'm sorry that they didn't, but you have the POWER and ABILITY to re-claim that life for yourself. Have you read "Quivering Daughters" (the book) by Hilary McFarland? I know my library has it--yours may as well if you can't buy it. It might help.

I realize that you're in a bad place, but you have to take a step. You've already done so well by going to school and seeing the doctor--can you take that one step further, and perhaps call that hotline, and explain your situation, or see if you can see a therapist through your doctor's office?

Is there a church (NORMAL church--like Episcopal or Methodist or Presbyterian or something) that you could start attending so that you have some social and spiritual support? Do you have a car?

You quit drinking, right? You started going to school, on your own, right? Look at what you've accomplished with NOTHING!!! That right there is remarkable--you are a strong woman, even if you don't feel like it. If you can go to school on your own, you can go to a new church on your own, right? Or call a counselor on your own?

Other practical matters: Do you have a copy of your birth certificate, Social Security card, and driver license/state ID card/Passport? Please get these documents (CERTIFIED birth certificate--not the fancy one from the hospital if you have that) and keep them in a safe and accessible place. Normally, they say not to keep these things in your purse, but I'd say that you should--along with your medications. You need to be able to grab those items at a moment's notice.

Excuses: :) Try, as much as possible, to focus on the present. Yes, you have disadvantages, yes, you have to work through your past, and that's important--but TODAY is also important, your future is also important. Can you take a tiny step today that will put you closer to being free? Can you make a list of 3 things you want out of life, and think about tiny ways to get there? What does freedom look like to you? Can you do something to cement that commitment to yourself? For example, when I decided on something once, I bought myself a cheap-o ring, so that I wouldn't forget what I had promised myself.

Oh oh. Yes, they allow me to make my own decisions now. I haven't read Quivering Daughters but I have read most of the No Longer Quivering website.

Yes, I've stopped drinking. It's probable that at my worst period, I drank no more than 'normal' people do when they grab a few beers after work every day. But for me, it was a lot.

The present is all I've been living in the past seven years. Not believing in a future does that to you. :)

Yes, I have all three items mentioned, in easy accessibility. My doctor's office was thoroughly unhelpful in terms of finding therapists that won't charge. The community college counselor is certainly better than nothing.

I can call the last place I applied to, when my brothers get back. My cell phone is lost, my landline no longer works and the people with cell phones are gone.

I'm not sure what freedom looks like. Maybe my own apartment with a real bedroom for me that I don't have to share, and maybe a second bedroom to act as a studio. Or maybe freedom looks like a truck converted into a living space, the open road, picking up jobs where I can.

Sometimes I've thought about just running away, taking one of the cars (I don't own a car outright, but there is one that I drive a lot) and my most important possessions and just leaving for a while. But I hate the lack of heating/air conditioning.

Remember, I'm just talking about the problems. My family is a blessing and I never want to lose them or hurt them. I don't think I could ask for better. It's just, you know, not perfect. It's hard to present a balanced view when all this that I've talked about is just bursting out because I've kept it hidden so long.

Sadly there's no church I can go to, at least not in a church capacity. I am a believer in the end of the church age. It's not a discussion I wish to get into, let's just leave it at I believe in it. So I can't attend church services. My father had a bi-weekly bible study for a few years, but it's been disbanded for over a year now. And it's not like I talked much at meetings anyway. I am however, considering attending non-Sunday bible study group with some young people from a local church. It's not a church capacity, and they're very liberal/arminian, but probably better than the total lack of fellowship with outside people I have now.

[AnnoDomini]

What would happen if you said it? What is the absolute worst thing that could possibly happen? She'd cry? She'd yell at you? She'd have to face an unpleasant truth about herself? What?

Why would you stop seeing your friends if she told you to? Why wouldn't you just tell her no, that request is unreasonable and unwelcome?

Not when you're an adult. When you're an adult you're supposed to make all of your decisions for yourself. All of them. You can and often should take others' feelings and advice into account, but the buck stops with you. You are the only one with a vote.

If I told her that, she'd be miserable, gray and depressed for days on end. And when she's like that, she can't keep it to herself by staying in her room all the time. She sits in the den, which is connected to the kitchen, the hub of the house, effectively making everyone miserable who sets foot downstairs (not on purpose though). Everyone would suffer, not just me. And she'd blame me for it. She's done it before. We've gone through years of this before she got on medication. We don't need any more.

I have to obey my parents, don't I? children, obey your parents, etc. I'd fight it of course, and she might not stick to her guns. But if she did, I'd probably have to obey.

[Saoirse]

Sounds horrifying. My best friend's dad was raised in a similar fashion. His family are a fundie offshoot of Seventh Day Adventists who, not once; not twice; but three times gave away everything they owned and waited for the rapture. He grew up, joined the Navy, and married an Episcopalian, separating himself from all that. He maintains a cordial relationship with family members who still live "on the compound" and it's sad to see them. Because they always thought the rapture would come they never saved any money, the church "owns" their land (they live in shacks on the land) and they're exempt from paying into Social Security for religious reasons, so all of these folks in their 70's and 80's struggling to survive and working at Wal-Mart. These sort of "religions" are like any other predators. Children and the elderly feel their effects most viciously.

[antifundie]

You do NOT have to obey your parents as an adult. Honor is different than obey--Do your parents obey your grandparents? I doubt it.

http://www.quiveringdaughters.com/2010/ ... child.html

http://www.quiveringdaughters.com/2011/ ... newal.html

http://www.quiveringdaughters.com/2010/ ... nting.html

[Witsec6]

:lol:

Oh man...I gotta tell you, Anno Domini, any Christian group that actually believes in the Rapture IS coo-coo for Cocoa Puffs! :roll:

This. Explore theology for yourself if you still believe in "the Rapture".

[dianapavelovna]

Hi Anno - you're getting great advice and support in this thread (and I'd expect nothing less from FJ!). I just want to pipe up and say - you are lovable. You are worthy and you deserve to be happy. It sounds cheesy and obvious, but it is so easy to lose sight of such simple things when you are dealing with depression and an unsupportive environment. You deserve a life you love. Don't doubt it, and don't stop fighting for it.

I encourage you to check out the websites of NAMI - the National Alliance on Mental Illness (http://www.nami.org/) - and DBSA - the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance (http://www.dbsalliance.org/). I know you mentioned you live kinda out in the middle of nowhere, but both these organizations provide support groups all over the country. If there's none near you, both groups also offer online support groups and discussion groups, which could be useful if you feel comfortable and have enough privacy when you access the internet. Social support is so important in coping with and recovering from depression, and making supportive connections can help you deal with the restrictions you feel within your family as well. One or both of these organizations may also be able to help you find a local therapist who will work with you pro bono or on a sliding scale.

Thanks for trusting FJ enough to tell us about your life and your struggles. Sending lots of virtual hugs your way. I've dealt with depression for years, as has my mother, and although, from what you've said, I grew up in a very different environment from you, it is always incredibly tough. You are responsible for your own life and your own happiness. No one else's. I don't know if you grew up with an idea like JOY (Jesus, Others, Yourself), but I wholeheartedly reject that. You should come first. Your value to this world is so much greater when you value yourself by making sure you're happy.

[VodouDoll]

I have to obey my parents, don't I? children, obey your parents, etc. I'd fight it of course, and she might not stick to her guns. But if she did, I'd probably have to obey.

But you're not a child. You're a 25-year-old adult. You do not have to obey her. If you surrender your autonomy, it's not because you have to, but because you choose to. If she told you to give up your friends and you did, it would be because you, not she, decided to make that happen. You can weigh different factors - it's worth not having friends to avoid being guilt tripped by mom for a while; it's worth keeping my friends in my life by telling my mom that it's not her place to choose my friends and standing firmly by that boundary - but at the end, either way, the decision is 100% yours and you're the one responsible for it.

I know it's hard to see from where you're standing, but you have all the power here. You don't have to choose to do what they say if it's not what you want to do. You don't have to choose to live how they tell you if it's not how you want to live. You're an adult who wants to live her own life. They are keeping you from that because they are acting selfishly. You don't have to take it. You can make other choices.

[AnnoDomini]

Thanks. I looked up the one for depression/bipolar. And thankfully, the JOY teaching wasn't ingrained into us.

[jenny_islander]

But you're not a child. You're a 25-year-old adult. You do not have to obey her. If you surrender your autonomy, it's not because you have to, but because you choose to. If she told you to give up your friends and you did, it would be because you, not she, decided to make that happen. You can weigh different factors - it's worth not having friends to avoid being guilt tripped by mom for a while; it's worth keeping my friends in my life by telling my mom that it's not her place to choose my friends and standing firmly by that boundary - but at the end, either way, the decision is 100% yours and you're the one responsible for it.

I know it's hard to see from where you're standing, but you have all the power here. You don't have to choose to do what they say if it's not what you want to do. You don't have to choose to live how they tell you if it's not how you want to live. You're an adult who wants to live her own life. They are keeping you from that because they are acting selfishly. You don't have to take it. You can make other choices.

This. Out here in the real world, the only time somebody in authority calls a 25-year-old's parents instead of her is when she's unconscious in the hospital and they happen to be listed as her emergency contact people in her wallet. Do they claim the righ tto treat you like a child because you're still living in their house? NO. IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. You are an adult living in their house.

[AnnoDomini]

And honestly, I'm not 100% sure about this 'my house, my domain, you're just a GUEST here' attitude. It's not like we had any choice about being born.

[VodouDoll]

Even if you were a guest in their house, that doesn't mean that they have the right to send you to your room or make you dump your friends. If I came over for dinner and was a guest in their house, would they have the right to send me to a time out? Of course not. Just refuse to do it. Who cares if they pout or guilt you? They only do it because it works, and it only works because you let it.

[AnnoDomini]

That's a good point.

[thoughtful]

Even if you were a guest in their house, that doesn't mean that they have the right to send you to your room or make you dump your friends. If I came over for dinner and was a guest in their house, would they have the right to send me to a time out? Of course not. Just refuse to do it. Who cares if they pout or guilt you? They only do it because it works, and it only works because you let it.

This reminded me of a scene in Now, Voyager. For anyone who hasn't seen it, or read the book, it's a story of a woman who is kept in a state of misery by her mother, and how she breaks free.

Yes, it's a 1940s "soaper," but it actually does a good job of showing how therapy can help a depressed person emerge from under the thumb of someone else.

This first scene sets up the one I mentioned -- she has returned after therapy and time doing something normal and enjoyable have helped her become a happy, independent person, and her mother works hard to cut her down again:

Later, more confident due to a reminder of her new life, she handles her mother's "I'm in charge, you're just a guest here" crap by asking to be treated as a guest!

I couldn't find just that moment, and I can't link this to go right to it. But this is the whole film, and you can easily scoot to minute 58, which is the scene:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4265475151

Bette Davis and the wonderful Gladys Cooper, who could play a gentle woman as well as a harridan, so well!

FJers might want to watch the whole movie, since it touches on some of the things we discuss. The villian is a mother, not a patriarchal father, and, as I said, it's not a modern film in some ways. But it's interesting, and Claude Rains is delightful as the psychiatrist.

[Angri-la]

Now, Voyager! Excellent call.

Anno, I cheer you on, woman. Note, I said woman NOT girl. Far wiser here have said what I would have, and far more eloquently. My mom gave me some good advice: "in the end, the only people who will take care of you are YOU and God." Others can help and be integral, but in real life, the Princess has to save herself, and should want to!

I do have empathy for your situation, it sucks, and women like you are why I am here: we have to let people know about what this bastardized Christianity does to people, and to tell those trapped: there is hope. Imagine what life would be like without internet. I am certain FJ is on all the fundies netfilters. For all the fundies with blobs, how many live without electricity, let alone computers.

Someday, I hope to be able to offer a safehouse for SAHD s who have left. I fear it has come to that.

[AnnoDomini]

Heh heh, fundies with blobs.

[Angri-la]

My phone's autocorrect...i'm not going to edit it, it amuses me too! :)

*I do not think children are blobs. Even poor fundies ones, belonging to baby hoarders.

[thoughtful]

Now, Voyager! Excellent call.

Thanks.