The Truth About Ruth - Part 3

[Jen0925]

Hi all, I'm Mary, a new member, mostly lurking. I came here after reading a lot about RR and feeling something was amiss. I think all of the information and posts have been very interesting and enlightening and I feel kinda sick to my stomach about someone taking advantage of generous people.

My doubts started based on two things:

1. Rachel's open adoption. Putting aside the lesbian couple aspect of it, I just found the amount of interaction that RR had with Ellie to be very hard to believe. Unless these two women were the most open people ever and really wanted to keep Ellie's birth family in the loop and active in her life, it just seems a bit far fetched. Especially when RR intimated that they would be coming through Chicago to see her.

2. I am an assistant dean at an academic library in California and do a huge amount of hiring for paraprofessional and professional positions. There is no way in Hell that we would ever hire someone based solely on a phone interview. Hell would have to freeze over before we hired based off of a phone interview AND someone from out of state. We generally get 50-60 apps for paraprofessional positions and we tend to look at the local candidates first. I find it impossible to believe that in Chicago, with UI-UC having a highly reputable library program, that any library would hire someone from out of state based on a phone interview.

Other than that, I am just following the story....I have mixed feelings of pity and and anger. I truly hope there is some closure so that folks can feel better and move on.

Nice meeting, y'all!

I also hope for some closure for myself and everyone else but I think it's unlikely that this person will come here or elsewhere and explain herself. I do truly hope the people who gave her money will get refunds at the very least.

[wild little fox]

Mary-

[Mecca]

Well here's the thing. You can out Ruth as much as possible, but Ruth will just move on to a new scam and there's really nothing that can be done to prevent it.

I've only been a member since Sept of 2012, so I really don't know what went on before that. I do know Ruth was supported by FJ as a whole, and I know people were piled on for questioning her during the Yuku days.

I am okay with others disagreeing and I am for everyone doing what they feel is right. I just don't want anyone inside and outside of the board to get hurt.

I understand your concern. I really do, but to advise the group that it is best to let it go is rather dismissive to the people that have been scammed in this situation. I do not think your intent was to be dismissive, but you cannot dicate to a group on how they should react. People are individuals, and I think it is up to the individual on whether they want to drop it or pursue it further.

I disagree there is nothing we can do. There is nothing bad in giving people information where they can make up their own minds up. That should not be discouraged. As long as it is done responsibly, why take issue? Investigating and questions are part of the process of getting real answers to help people become more aware of people like Ruth. Investigating takes time. There is a pattern to these scammers, and the more people are aware of the pattern, they will less likely fall prey to Internet scammers if confronted again. We may not be able to stop Ruth, but people will be aware of Ruth and people like Ruth. The more you know and all that jazz....

[flyawaystray]

No, I wasn't saying it in a dismissive manner. It's more like we can't prevent her from scamming again, we can't make her give refunds to everyone, etc. We can make people aware, yes, but I think by now, Ruth has moved on. It's likely she had multiple personas going at once.

I agree, it should be up to use as individuals to decide what they'd like to do.

[Rarity65]

Hi all, I'm Mary, a new member, mostly lurking. I came here after reading a lot about RR and feeling something was amiss. I think all of the information and posts have been very interesting and enlightening and I feel kinda sick to my stomach about someone taking advantage of generous people.

My doubts started based on two things:

1. Rachel's open adoption. Putting aside the lesbian couple aspect of it, I just found the amount of interaction that RR had with Ellie to be very hard to believe. Unless these two women were the most open people ever and really wanted to keep Ellie's birth family in the loop and active in her life, it just seems a bit far fetched. Especially when RR intimated that they would be coming through Chicago to see her.

2. I am an assistant dean at an academic library in California and do a huge amount of hiring for paraprofessional and professional positions. There is no way in Hell that we would ever hire someone based solely on a phone interview. Hell would have to freeze over before we hired based off of a phone interview AND someone from out of state. We generally get 50-60 apps for paraprofessional positions and we tend to look at the local candidates first. I find it impossible to believe that in Chicago, with UI-UC having a highly reputable library program, that any library would hire someone from out of state based on a phone interview.

Other than that, I am just following the story....I have mixed feelings of pity and and anger. I truly hope there is some closure so that folks can feel better and move on.

Nice meeting, y'all!

Hi Mary!

[mcc6676]

Thanks for the welcome, ladies. It's nice to read a forum where folks can disagree and work it out like mature adults....in libraryland that's a rare thing. :)

ETA: to thank others for being welcoming.

[Cartmann99]

No, I wasn't saying it in a dismissive manner. It's more like we can't prevent her from scamming again, we can't make her give refunds to everyone, etc. We can make people aware, yes, but I think by now, Ruth has moved on. It's likely she had multiple personas going at once.

I agree, it should be up to use as individuals to decide what they'd like to do.

I also don't think we can stop her from attempting to scam kind-hearted individuals, but as you said, we can make people aware of her technique so that folks on the internet know to be on the look out for "Ruth" or other scammers in their online communities.

Some people are going to refuse to listen no matter how evidence is stacked up and you can't do anything about that. That said, if someone hears about "Ruth" and then sees that member X in their community is behaving like "Ruth", that person can alert a moderator or admin of their suspicions. Most admins really do care about their communities and will do what is in their power to protect the community from scammers and whatnot.

[LeatherCouch]

Hi all, I'm Mary, a new member, mostly lurking. I came here after reading a lot about RR and feeling something was amiss. I think all of the information and posts have been very interesting and enlightening and I feel kinda sick to my stomach about someone taking advantage of generous people.

My doubts started based on two things:

1. Rachel's open adoption. Putting aside the lesbian couple aspect of it, I just found the amount of interaction that RR had with Ellie to be very hard to believe. Unless these two women were the most open people ever and really wanted to keep Ellie's birth family in the loop and active in her life, it just seems a bit far fetched. Especially when RR intimated that they would be coming through Chicago to see her.

2. I am an assistant dean at an academic library in California and do a huge amount of hiring for paraprofessional and professional positions. There is no way in Hell that we would ever hire someone based solely on a phone interview. Hell would have to freeze over before we hired based off of a phone interview AND someone from out of state. We generally get 50-60 apps for paraprofessional positions and we tend to look at the local candidates first. I find it impossible to believe that in Chicago, with UI-UC having a highly reputable library program, that any library would hire someone from out of state based on a phone interview.

Other than that, I am just following the story....I have mixed feelings of pity and and anger. I truly hope there is some closure so that folks can feel better and move on.

Nice meeting, y'all!

Hello and welcome! I just wanted to let you know that adoptions that open are not at all uncommon. We have open adoptions with 2 of our kids and we have weekly (at least) contact with both families. It's funny that the things that raise flags for some people are totally normal for others.

[holierthanyou]

Plot twist: What if the RR persona is just AD's older sister?

[LynnGrey]

Hi all, I'm Mary, a new member, mostly lurking. I came here after reading a lot about RR and feeling something was amiss. I think all of the information and posts have been very interesting and enlightening and I feel kinda sick to my stomach about someone taking advantage of generous people.

My doubts started based on two things:

1. Rachel's open adoption. Putting aside the lesbian couple aspect of it, I just found the amount of interaction that RR had with Ellie to be very hard to believe. Unless these two women were the most open people ever and really wanted to keep Ellie's birth family in the loop and active in her life, it just seems a bit far fetched. Especially when RR intimated that they would be coming through Chicago to see her.

2. I am an assistant dean at an academic library in California and do a huge amount of hiring for paraprofessional and professional positions. There is no way in Hell that we would ever hire someone based solely on a phone interview. Hell would have to freeze over before we hired based off of a phone interview AND someone from out of state. We generally get 50-60 apps for paraprofessional positions and we tend to look at the local candidates first. I find it impossible to believe that in Chicago, with UI-UC having a highly reputable library program, that any library would hire someone from out of state based on a phone interview.

Other than that, I am just following the story....I have mixed feelings of pity and and anger. I truly hope there is some closure so that folks can feel better and move on.

Nice meeting, y'all!

Hi Mary!

I've been reading--practically in rapture--all this stuff about exposing Razing Ruth (but this is first time commenting on it), because I was totally taken in by her story and didn't truly question her until all this recent information came out. I'm glad I never gave any money to her, but in hindsight I'm surprised that all the red flags I saw never fully caused me to doubt.

Like you, I work in the LIS field and just finished my MLIS last year. I thought it really strange that Ruth was able to get a job in Chicago long distance, but so many parts of her story were that strange, that I just chalked it up to "Ruth has a strange life and always has. Maybe she had a personal connection at that workplace." (I didn't always read the details of her posts too closely.) I even considered contacting her and offering to meet up as she drove through Denver, where I live. I always gave her the benefit of the doubt because I know I certainly don't know everything about the world or what people's experiences can be like.

When I looked at *******'s facebook page, I just sort of stared at her picture for a while trying to soak in the fact that this was the woman behind all the writings. It felt like Ruth had died, honestly. Her story was so riveting to me and I had a lot of sympathy for her. It was sad to find out the truth.

As a relatively new follower of No Longer Quivering, I was also very shocked and disappointed to see Calulu's extreme and immature reaction towards this information. I would have expected more out of them.

Overall, this past week has been a learning experience for me in increasing my internet skepticism and decreasing my expectations of leaders of popular internet sites. I would love to get some closure, too, but I'm not going to hope for that.

[OkToBeTakei]

I understand your concern. I really do, but to advise the group that it is best to let it go is rather dismissive to the people that have been scammed in this situation. I do not think your intent was to be dismissive, but you cannot dicate to a group on how they should react. People are individuals, and I think it is up to the individual on whether they want to drop it or pursue it further.

I disagree there is nothing we can do. There is nothing bad in giving people information where they can make up their own minds up. That should not be discouraged. As long as it is done responsibly, why take issue? Investigating and questions are part of the process of getting real answers to help people become more aware of people like Ruth. Investigating takes time. There is a pattern to these scammers, and the more people are aware of the pattern, they will less likely fall prey to Internet scammers if confronted again. We may not be able to stop Ruth, but people will be aware of Ruth and people like Ruth. The more you know and all that jazz....

I realise I am not popular in this thread and I do apologise for losing the plot and forgetting my point when faced with the walls of text last night. I do have that problem where if I am responded to, I just can't not answer. It really is not always the best way to get a point across. I'm human and a bit of a twat when that happens.

I did take pause and re-read today and realised two things. I am uncomfortable with two things. Internet diagnosis of mental illness posted as fact and my perception that people will then take that as fact. I know most are just posting their hypothesis of the situation and I really do not take issue with the plethora of mind bouncing, it is what led to the reveal in the first place. I just worry that it becomes a concrete fact. It is amazing how in 2-3 pages an idea becomes an absolute. It is a trigger for me personally as I work in that field and it already has so many misconceptions.

The second is more personal and just my take. I adore this site. I get so much from it. It challenges my thoughts, my prejudice my me-ness. We all react to that. I do though often think of what some of your views are and it does change and make me look at things differently. Maybe not always favourably, sometimes totally, but it does make me think. So if by some reason by being a part of this forum and any of these claims, circumstantial evidence, caused in any way an innocent bystander or somebody just mentioned in passing as part of the intrigue, any hurt, damage at all then I would feel responsible. Especially minors. For even one person to say it will do no harm to contact the real life relatives of this person implicates me as a member of this forum. I do not post here for that. I post anonymously to a forum to snark and exchange and debate and for fun. I do not want to feel I can influence the life of another negatively, no matter how crap their actions are/were allegedly. Especially on this bizarre medium that is the internet. It has a way of influencing, that I an old fogey at times find frightening.

Re-reading I tried and failed to express to OddsE that I had no problem with her pursuit and was quite impressed with her investigation and deductions. I really just became uncomfortable when it moved from circumstantial to fact without any facts. I don't think I expressed that very well. I just felt that IF it happens to be wrong and it is on this forum then I will feel craptastic for those involved. It is totally her thing to have her own site to do that and good luck to her. Not my business then and I can go about my business here without feeling any responsibility if it goes tits up and there are repercussions either morally or legally. I also did not understand Odds way of answering.

I apologise totally for saying it multiple times instead of just letting it go. I realise I never do that, I am a dog with a bone which is fine if it is not annoying. I was out of order. I will probably not change but feel free to say DOGBONE in future, I might listen?

@Abigail. I had not had my reflection at that point :lol: Not a dig at you at all. Just felt very frustrated.

[mcc6676]

Hello and welcome! I just wanted to let you know that adoptions that open are not at all uncommon. We have open adoptions with 2 of our kids and we have weekly (at least) contact with both families. It's funny that the things that raise flags for some people are totally normal for others.

Learn something new every day! The limited experience I have with open adoption (two of my cousins) just had the birth mother meeting and interacting with my cousin until after delivery, then it died down. I think it is pretty amazing if folks continue to keep contact for long periods after that. Generous hearts!

[mcc6676]

Hi Mary!

I've been reading--practically in rapture--all this stuff about exposing Razing Ruth (but this is first time commenting on it), because I was totally taken in by her story and didn't truly question her until all this recent information came out. I'm glad I never gave any money to her, but in hindsight I'm surprised that all the red flags I saw never fully caused me to doubt.

Like you, I work in the LIS field and just finished my MLIS last year. I thought it really strange that Ruth was able to get a job in Chicago long distance, but so many parts of her story were that strange, that I just chalked it up to "Ruth has a strange life and always has. Maybe she had a personal connection at that workplace." (I didn't always read the details of her posts too closely.) I even considered contacting her and offering to meet up as she drove through Denver, where I live. I always gave her the benefit of the doubt because I know I certainly don't know everything about the world or what people's experiences can be like.

When I looked at *******'s facebook page, I just sort of stared at her picture for a while trying to soak in the fact that this was the woman behind all the writings. It felt like Ruth had died, honestly. Her story was so riveting to me and I had a lot of sympathy for her. It was sad to find out the truth.

As a relatively new follower of No Longer Quivering, I was also very shocked and disappointed to see Calulu's extreme and immature reaction towards this information. I would have expected more out of them.

Overall, this past week has been a learning experience for me in increasing my internet skepticism and decreasing my expectations of leaders of popular internet sites. I would love to get some closure, too, but I'm not going to hope for that.

Hi Lynn,

I totally get where you're coming from. I tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt and look for the positive side first. I'm a member of another online community that is very tight knit and we help one another out all the time. Everyone is very generous.

I think more than anything else, the library job really tipped it for me. The field is so glutted right now it just seems highly unlikely that a place would have a difficult time finding someone, and would have to hire out of state. Like I said, there are a lot of librarians and LIS-students walking around Chicago. I don't think it would be too difficult to get an excellent local candidate.

Having been through some bad hires, you just can't go on phone interviews any more, you really have to meet someone face to face...particularly if they will be working with patrons.

I think there are multiple lessons to be learned from this experience and I hope that no one's spirit of kindness and generosity gets broken.

[Marilla-Cuthbert2013]

Wow. Thanks, Oddeverything, for the site. I was pretty confused but it lays all the pertinent details out clearly.

^^^ Ditto! You did an amazing job! Thank you! :clap:

[Coconut Flan]

OTBT, thank you. Normally I can roll my eyes and let the repetitive go by. I think I felt it was becoming too personal perhaps last night. I'm glad everyone is on a better page today. I know I am.

[OkToBeTakei]

OTBT, thank you. Normally I can roll my eyes and let the repetitive go by. I think I felt it was becoming too personal perhaps last night. I'm glad everyone is on a better page today. I know I am.

I honestly did not get the Op's long posts. I just kept answering and turned my legitimate concerns into complete twat country. Lesson learned. Your point this morning time wise, this morning for me..was totally bang on.

[ILpecanthief]

:shock: :o :roll: So she's actually claiming that all this is true? Of her? Of one person? Oh good grief. Was this all in one post or was it spread out? I was thinking if it was spread out maybe she forgot some of her previous claims, but if it was in one post did she really think anyone would believe all that?

Yes she's claiming it's all true in a thread about "claims to fame". It was all in one post.

[Burris]

I can understand being ashamed of and covering up one’s past transgressions over a period of years. The mentality of an able-bodied individual, and educated, who would rather malinger and scam others of money than work for her own survival, however – that I don’t understand.

I don’t understand why anyone would wish illness on themselves or even pretend to it in their families. The compensations in government monies and help are petty compared to the losses – of stability, productivity, normalcy. Major illness is frightening, painful, costly, demanding. It’s worse, at its worst, than I ever guessed it could be. There are a few things that top major and chronic sickness it in the galaxy of human suffering – but only a few. And now I’m not even sure which thing is worse: Being ill, which I’m not, or watching it in a loved one, which I am.

And while I can understand all manner of darkness in the human spirit, I don’t get what kind of utter emptiness would compel someone like Ruth or her type to chose this kind of limping half-life – one where they’re always running – to what they could achieve if they put even half that effort into earning money by the work of their own hands.

This woman isn’t going to refund your money, though; she likely doesn’t even have it anymore. She probably won’t even come back here under her initial pseudonym, assuming she comes back at all rather than simply moving on to one half-dozen other schemes she’s probably been playing this entire time.

If she does come back here, however, I hope she pays attention:

I don’t know that she has actually done anything so horrible there’s no coming back from it. She stole thousands of dollars, but money can be replaced. Maybe she could be something else one day; something more than she is. And if there’s any kind of closure possible in a situation such as this, it’s in the singular hope that one day she does get the help she needs. Being haunted by and hunted for acts of your own stupidity isn’t any kind of life. If you still have a choice in the matter, do something else. Try something else. Be something else.

[Arete]

I honestly did not get the Op's long posts. I just kept answering and turned my legitimate concerns into complete twat country. Lesson learned. Your point this morning time wise, this morning for me..was totally bang on.

Well, apparently what I feel are my legitimate concerns are only an indication that I am incapable of critical thinking or only capable of binary thinking.

When people are reacting to legitimate criticism with personal insults, it tells me they aren't even trying to understand the other side. I think what Odds has put together is incredible and has a lot of value, but that doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with everything.

[theologygeek]

Could someone give me the condensed version? I haven't been around that much for a while because of being busy with work. Ruth was a sham, wasn't she? I never believed a word she said. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt a couple of times, but I really didn't believe her.

[OkToBeTakei]

Well, apparently what I feel are my legitimate concerns are only an indication that I am incapable of critical thinking or only capable of binary thinking.

When people are reacting to legitimate criticism with personal insults, it tells me they aren't even trying to understand the other side. I think what Odds has put together is incredible and has a lot of value, but that doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with everything.

Precisely. But if my concerns differ to yours why does that indicate a lack of critical thinking? That is just so much intellectual bullshit.

Level of comfort is personal. It does not indicate intelligence. It is what it is.

Not right. Not wrong.

What is wrong is dictating if expressing it no matter how unpopular or misguided it may be is in some way wrong. I mean this for myself or the OP. I'm ok with where I'm at. I just did not accept that the OP is ok with where she is at also.

Mea culpa. I tried to impose my views on another.

[Boogalou]

Could someone give me the condensed version? I haven't been around that much for a while because of being busy with work. Ruth was a sham, wasn't she? I never believed a word she said. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt a couple of times, but I really didn't believe her.

In a (very small) nut shell yes, Ruth was a sham. Turns out she is the same person as posummamma and several other identities. She has been running various scams, under several identities, and faking many illnesses on the internet for years and years. If you read the chatter thread I think you can get a bit more in depth view of what's going on in slightly fewer pages... but it's still 35 pages. Good luck!

[theologygeek]

In a (very small) nut shell yes, Ruth was a sham. Turns out she is the same person as posummamma and several other identities. She has been running various scams, under several identities, and faking many illnesses on the internet for years and years. If you read the chatter thread I think you can get a bit more in depth view of what's going on in slightly fewer pages... but it's still 35 pages. Good luck!

Thank you for telling me. I feel bad for everyone who gave her money. Bitch deserves to be slapped.

[Vex]

Well here's the thing. You can out Ruth as much as possible, but Ruth will just move on to a new scam and there's really nothing that can be done to prevent it.

I've only been a member since Sept of 2012, so I really don't know what went on before that. I do know Ruth was supported by FJ as a whole, and I know people were piled on for questioning her during the Yuku days.

Ruth was never supported by 'FJ as a whole'. As you mentioned, some members were attacked for doubting her (back in the Yuku days) but there were always doubters, right from the earliest threads.

By definition Free Jinger cannot support anyone or anything as a whole because we are a large group of individuals. Even a moderator saying they believe such-and-such is real doesn't make that the official position of the site.

I am speaking up because I'm king of tired of hearing how 'FJ believed her and that's why I believed her', because it (even unintentionally) insinuates that a) the entire group advocated for Ruth, b) there was an 'official position' FJ held on Ruth, and c) that because of that FJ shoulders part of the blame.

Free Jinger never vetted her, not even Alecto did. She just said that Vyckie had and some people mistakenly believed that because Alecto said Vyckie had vetted her to Vyckie's satisfaction that meant the site endorsed her. I hate defending Alecto, but she never said she had proof Ruth was real.

Just to reiterate, FJ as a group doesn't have the power to endorse an individual because the group cannot speak for everyone.

I also want to say I hope you don't leave the discussion, Mustang Sally, because I have really enjoyed your contributions. I don't feel like anyone here is going off on a witch hunt. Perhaps if people had been through this experience before they would understand just how civil and non-alarmist the threads on Ruth have been.

[Nothing2CHere]

Just to reiterate, FJ as a group doesn't have the power to endorse an individual because the group cannot speak for everyone.

I also want to say I hope you don't leave the discussion, Mustang Sally, because I have really enjoyed your contributions. I don't feel like anyone here is going off on a witch hunt. Perhaps if people had been through this experience before they would understand just how civil and non-alarmist the threads on Ruth have been.

Just wanted to say, QFT, both parts of this.