American Right Wing Christianity

[SpeakNow]

Sure! We could do the whole South. Lord knows each state has it's own brand of religious crazy. :lol:

What is 180? I've seen those bumper stickers around here.

180 is that wonderful "documentary" Ray Comfort released that compares abortion to the holocaust.

[debrand]

Thoughtful, thank you so much for that book recommendation.

I think that the crazy emphasis on the rapture wasn't present when I was a kid. Maybe my grandmother was just a super nice person but she mainly talked about being kind to others and not judging. It wasn't until my twenties that I became aware of a more radical Christians who seem to have spread their influence. (or at least, they are very loud)

I really, really want to attend a snake handling meeting.

[formergothardite]

Thoughtful, thank you so much for that book recommendation.

I think that the crazy emphasis on the rapture wasn't present when I was a kid. Maybe my grandmother was just a super nice person but she mainly talked about being kind to others and not judging. It wasn't until my twenties that I became aware of a more radical Christians who seem to have spread their influence. (or at least, they are very loud)

I really, really want to attend a snake handling meeting.

So do I. It seems way more interesting than your typical fundie church. :lol:

[thoughtful]

Thoughtful, thank you so much for that book recommendation.

You're welcome!

The book looks at the history of oil, religion and debt, and compares the current (well, 2005, when it was written) US situation to several civilizations/nations in the past, that fell apart due to some combination of basing their economy on something that was surpassed by new technology, too much debt, and fundamentalist religious fervor.

It may also make you want to go read the many other books he recommends or cites as he goes along!

[formergothardite]

Thoughtful, that looks like a good book and, squee!!!, my library has it!

[LeatherCouch]

180 is that wonderful "documentary" Ray Comfort released that compares abortion to the holocaust.

It's also a "youth movement" in many churches that predates Ray's "documentary". Google "180 youth".

[MrsYoungie]

The guy in that video looks like such a low life thug. How could anyone think he is a minister of any kind. He looks like someone who would pass me on the street and I would clutch my handbag closer to my side. Yuck!

[formergothardite]

The guy in that video looks like such a low life thug. How could anyone think he is a minister of any kind. He looks like someone who would pass me on the street and I would clutch my handbag closer to my side. Yuck!

He has eight locations(all but the main one have screens that show him preaching) and over 15,000 members. How, I really don't know. Just looking at him screams "This guy will scam you out of money" to me.

According to Wikapedia he has two extensions in Canada. :shock: I'm so sorry Canada that we sent our crazy up there to you. We try to keep them contained to one area.

This church also kicked a child with cerebral palsy out of the main service because they said that they like to provide a distraction free service to their guest. :roll:

[JesusFightClub]

Seconding (thirding?) OKToBe and Irishy. I am Scottish and was brought up with my main tradition (such as it was) being Irish Protestant. I went to a "Christian school with a Christian ethos" for part of my childhood.

Gathering together my scattered recollections:

We didn't talk about the Rapture, ever, and we didn't study Revelation. That was considered like University level material, and we were in (Biblical) primary school by comparison.

Jesus was very, very keen on us being kind to the elderly and to poor people. That wasn't tied to any political agenda, we just had to do it.

Most of the Bible happened just as it said it did, but sometimes God had to use simple language because otherwise we just wouldn't get it (like Genesis). So evolution may have happened but really, it wasn't worth worrying about as we just had to get on with life and not bother our pretty little heads.

Related to that - if a theological question was too tough for us, God knew the answer so don't fret about it. You'll find out when you die.

Catholics had seriously managed to mess up the whole Jesus thing and were (possibly) going to the bad place. CF: The IRA, who all Catholics supported and were just like that.

There were a lot of false religions around, like Muslims, who were DEFINITELY going to the bad place and Jews, who theoretically should be going to the good place but were too proud to fess up that Jesus was God.

Politics weren't really a theme that I can think of. Of course, Northern Ireland loomed a bit large, but aside from that we would have been too young to hear about it. We certainly weren't told which party was in the right about anything or about modern political issues (aside, again, from NI).

[Minerva]

He has eight locations(all but the main one have screens that show him preaching) and over 15,000 members. How, I really don't know. Just looking at him screams "This guy will scam you out of money" to me.

According to Wikapedia he has two extensions in Canada. :shock: I'm so sorry Canada that we sent our crazy up there to you. We try to keep them contained to one area.

This church also kicked a child with cerebral palsy out of the main service because they said that they like to provide a distraction free service to their guest. :roll:

Well you're not doing a very good job. :lol: Alberta's situation might be hopeless at this point, but do you think America would be willing to take back the fundy culture that's penetrated the other provinces? We could do without the Evangelical rock concerts (seriously, those happen in Canada now - Facebook was advertising one to me last summer). And my parents would like to be able to send my siblings to summer camps without having to find out halfway through registration that the camp is religious and luring non-Evangelicals in with secular advertisements.

[Irishy]

Seconding (thirding?) OKToBe and Irishy. I am Scottish and was brought up with my main tradition (such as it was) being Irish Protestant. I went to a "Christian school with a Christian ethos" for part of my childhood.

Gathering together my scattered recollections:

We didn't talk about the Rapture, ever, and we didn't study Revelation. That was considered like University level material, and we were in (Biblical) primary school by comparison.

Jesus was very, very keen on us being kind to the elderly and to poor people. That wasn't tied to any political agenda, we just had to do it.

Most of the Bible happened just as it said it did, but sometimes God had to use simple language because otherwise we just wouldn't get it (like Genesis). So evolution may have happened but really, it wasn't worth worrying about as we just had to get on with life and not bother our pretty little heads.

Related to that - if a theological question was too tough for us, God knew the answer so don't fret about it. You'll find out when you die.

Catholics had seriously managed to mess up the whole Jesus thing and were (possibly) going to the bad place. CF: The IRA, who all Catholics supported and were just like that.

There were a lot of false religions around, like Muslims, who were DEFINITELY going to the bad place and Jews, who theoretically should be going to the good place but were too proud to fess up that Jesus was God.

Politics weren't really a theme that I can think of. Of course, Northern Ireland loomed a bit large, but aside from that we would have been too young to hear about it. We certainly weren't told which party was in the right about anything or about modern political issues (aside, again, from NI).

You crazy heretic prods! Sitting about readin yer bibles. Get out there and volunteer at meals on wheels or your local hospital. Lazy ass jellied beetroot eaters...

[Burris]

Lots of good points to ponder here. Before I hit the day job, I want to touch briefly on one.

If you have to pick a book in the NT canon that has the least influence and impact on Eastern Orthodox Christianity, it is the book of Revelation. We are taught that Revelation was literally the last book added to the official canon, because there was so much disagreement on whether it belonged there or not. Revelation is not used in any of the liturgical readings in the Orthodox church. It is not used for Sunday sermons. It is explained as both symbolic and cryptic, and that frankly we never fully understood all the symbolism from the time it started circulating in the Christian world. This history means Orthodoxy has no theology of a "Rapture", does not make predictions about when or whether the world will end, and does not require that the modern state of Israel needs to be supported as a matter of theology or setting the stage for the Second Coming.

I am going to assume that the nature of the two Great Awakenings in the United States in the 18th and 19th (?) century catapulted Revelation to high prominence among evangelicals. Perhaps in was a necessity in a society expanding along an essentially lawless frontier to be reminded that just because there was no government presence, there was a divine presence that would eventually hold you to accouotnt. Just my particular musing there. The tent revivals where Revelation was used also relied on it heavily for imagery to scare people. In non liturgical settings, you have to use other methods to envoke the divine power.

Regardless, the evangelical obsession with using Revelation to dictate government policy is absolutely unheard of in the rest of the Christian world. Got to go.

This. Where I grew up, Revelation was treated as being more in the nature of an appendix as opposed to a book from which useful information about how to live could be taken. (Open religious practice itself could lead to alienation among people at school or work, so most people who had religious leanings kept these private.)

It saw an upswing in popularity, however, when the area began to destabilize - and this is especially true among people who would use religion to gain by any social upset:

They use books such as Joshua and Revelation - all that talk about killing rivals and unbelievers - as the central beam around which to build arguments against ethnically diverse neighbors.

Other people would read the Bible, in whatever form, and come to an entirely different conclusion by focusing on all the passages about love, sharing, justice, mercy, and so on.

It would seem that people use the raw materials at their disposal to create a religion that fits their personalities – which is why religious assholes will almost inevitably spout about an unforgiving, unyielding system of beliefs that just happen to resemble the prejudices of the preachers themselves.

[dawbs]

Debrand and I need to host some sort of religious right wing Christianity tour. Come to NC and visit everything from the mega churches with strobe lights and rock bands to the tiny snake handling churches! You get to experience total strangers asking you what church you go to, not being able to buy alcohol on Sundays or only be able to buy it after noon on Sundays, more churches than you can imagine and people coming up to you while you are out trying to save your soul!

^that right there? that was my childhood.

:lol:

(my family did the "hey look, we work in education so have the summers off--lets buy a cheap RV and tour the country" travel all over the US and Canada. We would go to church every Sunday. Since this was pre-internet, on Saturday night, we would make our best efforts to stay someplace w/ the real ability to shower, that morning my sisters and I would use the butane-powered curling iron (I wonder if my sister still owns that :lol: ), and pull on the frumpers that were required and we'd go to whatever church my dad had gotten info from @ the front desk or from the phonebook/calling information.

You can find some DOOZIES of churches by just showing up at whatever protestant church dad's finger landed on in the book :o )

I'd still love the tour if I come to NC--although I think I'd want to start in SC, at Heritage USA (where Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker were)--I have memories of that place :lol:

[OkToBeTakei]

So to get a clearer picture. The rapture is Star Trek. All protestants eat beetroot. It's all getting really clear now :lol:

Jesus though. Why all the emphasis on Jesus? Poor Mary never gets a mention and God only in second place it seems. But there seems so much emphasis on Jesus. I still honestly do not understand the 'saving' thing. I also don't understand soul winning.

[formergothardite]

^that right there? that was my childhood.

:lol:

(my family did the "hey look, we work in education so have the summers off--lets buy a cheap RV and tour the country" travel all over the US and Canada. We would go to church every Sunday. Since this was pre-internet, on Saturday night, we would make our best efforts to stay someplace w/ the real ability to shower, that morning my sisters and I would use the butane-powered curling iron (I wonder if my sister still owns that :lol: ), and pull on the frumpers that were required and we'd go to whatever church my dad had gotten info from @ the front desk or from the phonebook/calling information.

You can find some DOOZIES of churches by just showing up at whatever protestant church dad's finger landed on in the book :o )

I'd still love the tour if I come to NC--although I think I'd want to start in SC, at Heritage USA (where Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker were)--I have memories of that place :lol:

I wish I could have gone to Heritage USA when it was still open, but my parents weren't big fans of Jim and Tammy Faye. :( Even abandoned the park looks amazing.

http://www.tommyandjames.net/heritageusa.html

[Arete]

So to get a clearer picture. The rapture is Star Trek. All protestants eat beetroot. It's all getting really clear now :lol:

Jesus though. Why all the emphasis on Jesus? Poor Mary never gets a mention and God only in second place it seems. But there seems so much emphasis on Jesus. I still honestly do not understand the 'saving' thing. I also don't understand soul winning.

Think of soul winning as selling Christianity like a door to door salesman sells his product, because that is literally what a lot of them do.

Poor Mary never gets a mention because that would be admitting that even the manly man God has a mother. :shhh:

[salex]

I can do a second leg of the tour in the lovely state of TN. We have a whole neighborhood of people that have 180 and living waters bumper stickers.

[dawbs]

I wish I could have gone to Heritage USA when it was still open, but my parents weren't big fans of Jim and Tammy Faye. :( Even abandoned the park looks amazing.

http://www.tommyandjames.net/heritageusa.html

It is--I'd love to tour the remnants. Those pictures are amazing.

(I know someone was working on restoring 'the upper room' bit--fortmilltimes.com/2009/02/03/445500/effort-on-to-save-ptls-upper-room.html

My parents weren't big fans but, one set of my grandparents lived there. On the...'compound' isn't the right word, but, close enough.

They got out (mostly by sheer luck) before it all went bust, so they didn't get royally hosed when it all went belly up--whoever bought their house probably did.

I did almost die (quite literally) @ the water park there--created a life long issue w/ water. And I was promised a chance to come back when I was old enough/tall enough and ride the elephant--which my 10 year old self is bitter that I was never allowed to ride the elephant.

I actually have a lot of PTL/Heritage paraphernalia that I should figure out SOMETHING to do with--I did move all of the 'kids books' from them out of reach of my child :lol:

[Mama Mia]

It is--I'd love to tour the remnants. Those pictures are amazing.

(I know someone was working on restoring 'the upper room' bit--fortmilltimes.com/2009/02/03/445500/effort-on-to-save-ptls-upper-room.html

My parents weren't big fans but, one set of my grandparents lived there. On the...'compound' isn't the right word, but, close enough.

They got out (mostly by sheer luck) before it all went bust, so they didn't get royally hosed when it all went belly up--whoever bought their house probably did.

I did almost die (quite literally) @ the water park there--created a life long issue w/ water. And I was promised a chance to come back when I was old enough/tall enough and ride the elephant--which my 10 year old self is bitter that I was never allowed to ride the elephant.

I actually have a lot of PTL/Heritage paraphernalia that I should figure out SOMETHING to do with--I did move all of the 'kids books' from them out of reach of my child :lol:

Jim and Tammy Faye were the only evangelical types I was ever exposed to when I was young - I used to watch them every morning while rocking and nursing one of my babies EARLY in the morning - it was the only channel that had anything but a test sign ( old people will remember those lol ). So I always have a warm and comforting association with them. :lol:

[dawbs]

Jim and Tammy Faye actually make people wax a bit nostalgic, IME.

Because while they were obnoxious and over the top and philandering scammers...she was a likable loon and he was a charismatic villain.

(My grandma, the one who lived there, the last time any of us mentioned her living there, said something like "we had something beautiful there and the devil had to destroy it"--which was followed by awkward silence and someone changing the subject)

[Jezebel]

The guy in that video looks like such a low life thug. How could anyone think he is a minister of any kind. He looks like someone who would pass me on the street and I would clutch my handbag closer to my side. Yuck!

Ha! You beat me to it. Actually, my impression of him was that he looks like the kind of guy who bullies his girlfriend and is always getting fired from jobs because he steals shit and can't control his temper. I can see him robbing gas stations; I cannot see him serving as a spiritual guide or leader to anyone. He's got a petty thug's angry face and aggressive mannerisms; I can only imagine him preaching at equally angry people, or those too cowed to trust their bad feelings about him.

[ladyaudley]

Debrand and I need to host some sort of religious right wing Christianity tour. Come to NC and visit everything from the mega churches with strobe lights and rock bands to the tiny snake handling churches! You get to experience total strangers asking you what church you go to, not being able to buy alcohol on Sundays or only be able to buy it after noon on Sundays, more churches than you can imagine and people coming up to you while you are out trying to save your soul!

snake handling? why? who? Where? I WANT TO GO!

I grew up in Southern Germany, where most people are Catholic in a sort of "it's just what one is" way. it's all almost pagan-y with its weird little rituals and charms (the pentecost egg, star singers etc). The whole "lots of churches" thing confuses me, too. in Germany, if you're Christian you're either Catholic or Protestant. No division in the Protestants either, just Protestant. Confusingly for English speakers, being Protestant is called being "evangelisch" ^^

our RE consisted of learning about bible stories in historical settings, looking at how these things would have affected their surroundings and where the stories might have originated from ( hint: it was never God). We also learned about all major religions of the world, their beliefs and practices.

Religious practices were very much an everyday thing because they built community, but no one judged those who didn't go to church ( my parents, for example, are both atheists). Sure, there were some rabid people, but on the whole it was very pleasant.

Never once had I heard of "accepting Jesus", "being saved" and all that jazz before I started getting interested in US fundies via the Duggars.

[Jinger Jar]

I actually have a lot of PTL/Heritage paraphernalia that I should figure out SOMETHING to do with--I did move all of the 'kids books' from them out of reach of my child :lol:

Perhaps I've seen too many episodes of Antiques Roadshow, but I think at some point down there's going to be a market for 20th Century American Christianity paraphernalia and ephemera. It may not be in our time, but perhaps your kid will be able to get money for the stuff. :D

[Rosa]

there is SUCH a market for PTL memorabilia. I have a friend who collects Tammy Faye stuff and she used to just pick it up at the thrift store for pennies but lately people have been pricing it way up.

People who didn't get scammed often really love the post-scandal Tammy Faye, in a weird "we're laughing at her makeup but also she seemed really nice" way.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

It's so weird that Heritage USA is just sitting there abandoned all these years, with a huge unfinished hotel and everything! Does anyone know who owns that land now? Why haven't they developed it or revived the theme park under a different name? My only guess is that there are massive amounts of red tape due to the aftermath of the Bakker empire explosion and maybe no one wants to touch it with a ten-foot pole.