Fundies and make-up, hair and jewellery

[pimpom]

Last week I had an encounter of the fundie kind in the Netherlands, a family on the street, with (so it seemed) only two children (!!). Anyway, what struck me again is how OLD the wife looked. But then I realised she actually wasn't, she was about the same age as her husband. And she didn't look old because of the strain of a gazillion kids etc. (no matter how fundie they are, they're Dutch first, so pragmatic through and through), but because in Holland, true fundy women are not allowed to wear make up, dye their hair, or wear jewellery apart from their wedding ring. The reason being that you mustn't adorn yourself, for that is vanity bla bla bla calvinism sin sin sin etc.

And this got me thinking. When I think of US fundies clothes I know it's all about drab & dowdy & frumpers, but is make-up, cutting/dying your hair and jewellery also forbidden? I even got the impression that in some Southern churches make-up etc. is actively encouraged. Plz enlighten me?

[louisa05]

Several of my mother's aunts, uncles and cousins were heavily involved in a small fundie denomination called the "Church of Christ". They differentiate themselves from the Congregational churches with the same name by adding something like the phrase "meets here" to their signs (because the church is the people not the building...). There is one in my town that is more sophisticated apparently because their sign says "The place where the CHURCH OF CHRIST gathers".

They believed that makeup, jewelry, hair products (spray, perms, any product designed to aid in styling), and such things were sinful based on the verse about adornment. What was odd to us was that the men were usually dressed exceedingly well. Two of mom's cousins were pastors of these churches for many years (both now attend mainline churches...no idea how that happened) and typically wore designer suits, silk ties, etc...while their wives looked plain, old and exceedingly frumpy usually wearing ill fitting sewn at home outdated dresses.

On the other side of that are fundies I have known who were obsessed with women having perfect makeup and overly styled hair. Big hair and flashy makeup was the norm among the moms at the Christian school I taught at, even when matched with overly modest outdated clothing.

[CynicMom]

Depends how fundie you are. In more mainstream fundie churches, like Southern Baptist churches, makeup on women and fashionable yet modest clothing is actively encouraged. Women are supposed to represent the status of their husband through their appearance. Men have no such requirement, which is why you get so many unattractive men with thin, model wives. The women also have to remain attractive to their husbands at all times, lest their husbands cheat. Some of the more uber-fundie churches like the Maxwells don't allow makeup, but those churches haven't caught on in a mainstream way, in part because the frumpy lifestyle doesn't look attractive to outsiders.

Personally I don't see what the big deal is about makeup. Why should women have to paint their face to be acceptable but not men? Why are normal 40yr old women ugly without makeup but 40 yr old men are not?

[itaintmebabe]

Personally I don't see what the big deal is about makeup. Why should women have to paint their face to be acceptable but not men? Why are normal 40yr old women ugly without makeup but 40 yr old men are not?

JimBlob Duggar could certainly benefit from an eyebrow pencil.

[lilwriter85]

Many of the women in fundie lite circles love make up and jewelry. Many here on FJ will remember Lyndsie and her sister with their caked on makeup. Lynsdie is also a Mary Kay rep and I recall that many fundie lite types are also reps.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

As far as I can tell, this is one of the areas where VF and ATI differ - VF women are FAR more likely to not only wear makeup and fashionable clothes and style their hair (Elizabeth Botkin's bedroom hair, anyone?) but to encourage other women to do the same. At the same time though, look at Jana Duggar... I guess it's sort of an area of tension...both sides are all about women doing everything possible to please their husbands, but one faction says that includes looking sexy, while the other says looking sexy is for heathens.

[Closed Womb]

I have found these rules regarding hair, makeup, jewelry to be pretty inconsistent, even within sects. It seems to stem more from cultural influences than hard and fast church rules.

I've been to churches where makeup is not allowed -- or, discouraged, and if God is really working in your life he will guide you towards not adorning yourself *cough*manmaderule*cough* -- but I have yet to come across a church that does not allow hair products (although not cutting hair is popular.) I have been to at least one church (and Apostolic Church in Florida, now disbanded) that only allowed wedding rings and pins as jewelery, but, boy, those women had the fanciest wedding rings I've ever seen! Sometimes with anniversary bands up to the knuckle. I've been to churches who demanded skirts/dresses and modesty, but never ones that demanded plain dress. But those are just my experiences (although there are plenty, as I am fascinated with Churches/sects and used to visit them all the time, the odder the better!)

I am of the opinion that it is wrong to tell women what to do with their bodies. I rarely wear makeup. I do not think this makes me plain or ugly or dowdy or less appealing to my husband (okay, on that last one I have empirical evidence :D ). That said, I wouldn't be married to him if he said I COULDN'T wear makeup. I wouldn't be married to him if he said I HAD to wear makeup.

I lived in the South for a while; for a time I worked at a small business. The women would come to work without makeup and go home and get all dolled up before hubby came home, because they had to keep him happy. I see this as oppression. Maybe others disagree. But, I totally agree with the person up thread who said that the Southern Baptist type-ladies are doing that for their men rather than for THE Man.

[AVENues]

Cutest nick ever,

You know it really does boggle the mind, the whole concentrating on being beautiful in the inside nonsense. My guess is, women are only acceptable in patriarchal dicks' minds if they are beautiful AND young. So they use excessive makeup, half as much as honey booboo does when they show their teen girls on tv. How is wearing excessive makeup modest or how does it make people to focus on your personality well, I still dunno. What some of the Duggar girls display is: wearing a ton of makeup AND displaying itchy attitude. How is this all modest, I'unno. Scratching my head over it. Dickbags men were in my upbringing, they still allowed us to wear tank tops, short shorts etc but we were not allowed to paint or faces as teens. Now I really don't desire to, I only wear permanent makeup (aka war wounds for the moment being...). I do love accessories, though, like big, huge dangling earrings when I'm in the mood. I (and all women I know) had men holler at me because of damn earrings, but rapists will find a reason to find your looks provocative, even if you are dressed to the chin. Ramble, ramble, ramble. Point is: painting your children's face to present them as attractive in Christ is obnoxious. And controversial. I'll never ever be able to find out the essence of fundie logic (oxymoron here).

[AVENues]

JimBlob Duggar could certainly benefit from an eyebrow pencil.

Or a brown paper bag over top of his head to hide those creepy eyes of his. :|

[Mela99]

I think the Duggars would have stayed on that path had fame not gotten to them.

Which crazy lady blogger was it that said women aren't women unless they're wearing pink makeup? Neutrals make you a man or something?

[debrand]

I grew up in the south and ran across a lot of nonfundie women who just like wearing makeup and having big hair. It was part of who they were as a human being. They just liked the showiness of lots of makeup. Most of these types of women were nice and would wear make up if they were on an island with only squirrells for companions. Usually they have the type of outgoing personality that goes with their love of makeup and jewelry

There are other southern women who put on makeup for their husbands. My mother bragged that her husbands(she had a lot) never saw her without her makeup. She got up before them to put on her 'face'. I've always thought that was sad.

When I attended a church in Iowa, none of the women wore makeup to church except me and another misplaced Southerner. Even though I don't wear a lot of makeup I felt like a Jezebel next to some of those women.

Women shouldn't be pressured to wear or not wear makeup.

[2xx1xy1JD]

In Orthodox Jewish circles, most groups allow makeup, although some will say that it shouldn't be overly showy. Styles of hair-covering vary, from stunning wigs to very plain scarves covering everything. Most (with the exception of Toldos Aharon) don't advocate "plain" dressing.

[pimpom]

In Orthodox Jewish circles, most groups allow makeup, although some will say that it shouldn't be overly showy. Styles of hair-covering vary, from stunning wigs to very plain scarves covering everything. Most (with the exception of Toldos Aharon) don't advocate "plain" dressing.

And how about jewellry? Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the jewellery trade and Jewish people have been so closely intertwined for such a long time, I guess wearing jewellry is never forbidden. Or are there sects who feel it is immodest?

[AuntCloud]

As far as I know, wearing jewellery is universal among Orthodox Jews (not sure about the extreme sects such as Toldoth Aharon and Satmer). Through the generations, jewellery were a family's private insurance policy against bad times, which usually came at one point or another.

[RachelB]

I grew up in the south and ran across a lot of nonfundie women who just like wearing makeup and having big hair. It was part of who they were as a human being. They just liked the showiness of lots of makeup. Most of these types of women were nice and would wear make up if they were on an island with only squirrells for companions. Usually they have the type of outgoing personality that goes with their love of makeup and jewelry

There are other southern women who put on makeup for their husbands. My mother bragged that her husbands(she had a lot) never saw her without her makeup. She got up before them to put on her 'face'. I've always thought that was sad.

When I attended a church in Iowa, none of the women wore makeup to church except me and another misplaced Southerner. Even though I don't wear a lot of makeup I felt like a Jezebel next to some of those women.

Women shouldn't be pressured to wear or not wear makeup.

I don't think one even needs to be directly, officially pressured in order to feel some tug toward whatever is normative for a group. One of my college roommates, who was raised in the Midwest and whom I never saw in makeup, "gave up" (her words) and started wearing makeup when she had lived in Georgia for a while. Conversely, one of my graduate school colleagues has talked about feeling as if she's taken less seriously intellectually because she wears noticeable, distinctive makeup and puts thought into what she wears. (There's a "neutral" way of dressing for men in my field that is read as clean, professional, and competent, as opposed to either foppish or sloppy. There's no way for women in my field to dress that will guarantee their outfits won't become a topic of conversation.)

I think women are strongly encouraged, both by the culture at large and whatever religious, regional, and/or professional subcultures they belong to, to become self-policing in appearance in ways that men aren't. I blame the patriarchy.

[lilith]

I think the Duggars would have stayed on that path had fame not gotten to them.

Which crazy lady blogger was it that said women aren't women unless they're wearing pink makeup? Neutrals make you a man or something?

Even in the early frumper shots Michelle is wearing heavy eighties style makeup to go with her big hair, so I think they would always have done makeup - JimBob likes "his" womenfolk to pretty themselves up - but without TLC exposure and money and the advice of professional make up artists on the Today Show etc they would have even less skill than they do and probably stick with Michelle's overdone 80s Walmart makeup look instead of their current heavily applied products in modern colours.

I actually think that even the Maxwells use some makeup, especially for their posed photos - if they're not wearing concealer/ foundation/ some form of tone evening product then all the women, including Teri, have naturally and consistently amazing skin.

[JMarie]

I think the Duggars would have stayed on that path had fame not gotten to them.

Which crazy lady blogger was it that said women aren't women unless they're wearing pink makeup? Neutrals make you a man or something?

bewiseandliveayounggirlsguidetograce.blogspot.com/2013/03/girls-are-you-wearing-un-feminine-makeup.html

[yewchapel]

Agreed on the culture thing. I find the differences between the different fundie groups very interesting. VF is definitely an aspirational group - they model themselves on the upper classes of previous times. ATI and most Messianics seem to prefer the homesteading, semi-Plain, rural way of life.

In terms of Plain dressers, I don't know about the other groups but Quakers won't even wear wedding rings - it's a sign of equality between married and single people, equality being important in Quaker theology (particularly equality between classes). Even a lot of modern, non-Plain Quakers carry on that tradition.

[louisa05]

bewiseandliveayounggirlsguidetograce.blogspot.com/2013/03/girls-are-you-wearing-un-feminine-makeup.html

If I wore a white t-shirt and jeans and neutral makeup, I would still look like a woman because I am shaped like a woman. That is the dumbest thing I've read in awhile. And as to her silly little question "Can a man wear pink lip gloss?"...um, yes. He can. If he has a tube of pink lip gloss and lips to put it on, he can wear it just as easily as he can use chapstick or clear gloss which she generously allows me to do. Most men have no desire to wear any lip gloss, but that does not mean that they can't wear it in any color they pick up if they did want to. And the man in the youtube video who still looked like a man after putting on makeup...pretty simple explanation there, sweetheart, that was because he was a man. Not because of the color of the makeup.

Then there is the most recent post when she asserts that a man may not wear a "dress" under any circumstance. Don't tell these guys: http://www.glasgowhawks.com/images/photos/6500.jpg

[RachelB]

If I wore a white t-shirt and jeans and neutral makeup, I would still look like a woman because I am shaped like a woman. That is the dumbest thing I've read in awhile. And as to her silly little question "Can a man wear pink lip gloss?"...um, yes. He can. If he has a tube of pink lip gloss and lips to put it on, he can wear it just as easily as he can use chapstick or clear gloss which she generously allows me to do. Most men have no desire to wear any lip gloss, but that does not mean that they can't wear it in any color they pick up if they did want to. And the man in the youtube video who still looked like a man after putting on makeup...pretty simple explanation there, sweetheart, that was because he was a man. Not because of the color of the makeup.

Then there is the most recent post when she asserts that a man may not wear a "dress" under any circumstance. Don't tell these guys: http://www.glasgowhawks.com/images/photos/6500.jpg

Thank you for that photo. :drool:

Do you think she would classify robes as dresses? Because those were unisex dress for a long, long, long time. (They still are for heads of state on ceremonial occasions, for religious figures in liturgical traditions, and for students on trips to and from the dorm showers.)

[debrand]

That photo. Oh my! Thank you.

[2xx1xy1JD]

And how about jewellry? Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the jewellery trade and Jewish people have been so closely intertwined for such a long time, I guess wearing jewellry is never forbidden. Or are there sects who feel it is immodest?

Jewellery is fine, although some groups do say that it should be "tasteful".

Here's a photo of one of my favorite kosher cookbook authors, complete with jewellery and make-up (and looking way too good after 5 kids):

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/10 ... 4230_n.jpg

[AVENues]

bewiseandliveayounggirlsguidetograce.blogspot.com/2013/03/girls-are-you-wearing-un-feminine-makeup.html

fortheloveofgodcouldntyoucomeupwithablognameanylongerthanthaticouldbarelyreadit

[miffy]

Thank you for that photo. :drool:

Do you think she would classify robes as dresses? Because those were unisex dress for a long, long, long time. (They still are for heads of state on ceremonial occasions, for religious figures in liturgical traditions, and for students on trips to and from the dorm showers.)

Lots of courts throughout the commonwealth wear robes & wigs too.

I wonder what grass skirts are classified as? Because Maori & islander men wearing skirts & doing the haka are just about as stereotypically masculine as you can get.

[AVENues]

Pacific islander men are hot as fuck. They also wear flowers and they are just HOT. They also wear colorful fabric skirts. And they are as manly and hot as they can get.

**I googled "tongan men". "Related searches: hot tongan men" :lol: Take that fundies.