Miss Raquel's biggest reason to homeschool is....

[formergothardite]

....a highschooler can be worse at math than a first grader and that is okay if you homeschool. :shock: No one will pressure the 15 year old to do a little better in math if they homeschool, unlike the evil, athiest public schools.

biggest support of homeschooling is this:

What person is more capable of teaching your children than YOU - their parent who loves them and raises them? And heck, you can set your own pace of learning too. Every child learns at a different level. Some 6 year olds are better at math than a 15 year old. In a homeschool environment, the 15 year old can be at a lower level than the 6 year old...and nobody would be pressuring him to speed up

I understand that some children learn at a different pace than other children, but a student in highschool should not be at a lower level in math than a first grader. I was homeschooled and got a really good(well, except for science) education, so I am not anti-homeschooling. I am anti-people using homeschooling as an excuse not to educate their children, which I suspect Miss Raquel had happen to her and what she will do to any future children she has. Homeschooling is a lot of hard work. Hard work is not something Miss Raquel has a lot of experience with.

Last time she listed not having to do worthless things like "Literature" as a reason to homeschool. She reads Jane Austin and talks about it with her mom so she totally doesn't need to take a Literature class, unlike the poor public school students. :roll:

[salex]

I have relatives who have been fabulous home school successes (going on for advanced degrees in math and accounting) and some who have done ok, in spite of lackidasical (sp?) efforts by their parents, thanks to basic intelligence and an ability to self teach.

That said, I hope that more and more of the quiverful, women are evil, men are demigods, lets take over the world group go the route of poor education and isolationism. They will eventually implode from the weight of their own uneducated hubris.

[alba]

Uh, I wrote my university dissertation on Jane Austen, and I can tell you unequivocally that studying Austen as literature is not the same thing as having a conversation about it with your mother. Hell, my mum and I both have English degrees and our discussions about books aren't the same as actually studying the books.

[Ex 2x2]

If a high schooler is behind a first grader in math, that would mean not being able to add, subtract, tell time, and count money. That would be cause for great alarm. I agree completely with not pushing kids and letting them learn at their own level, but this is taking it way way way too far. Unless someone has a very low IQ and simply cannot learn those things, it would be ridiculous for a high schooler to not know those things. It would be incredibly difficult to function without them.

[JenXer]

I'm a homeschooling mom whose oldest is a junior at MIT. He's pretty much a genius at math but even he wasn't better than a 15 year old when he was six, unless that 15 year old had significant learning disabilities. That is not normal and not an indicator of the benefits of homeschooling.

Wow, she is taking a trueism and standing it on its head!

And literature = worthless? ~cries~

[AnywhereButHere]

If a high schooler is behind a first grader in math, that would mean not being able to add, subtract, tell time, and count money. That would be cause for great alarm. I agree completely with not pushing kids and letting them learn at their own level, but this is taking it way way way too far. Unless someone has a very low IQ and simply cannot learn those things, it would be ridiculous for a high schooler to not know those things. It would be incredibly difficult to function without them.

My husband went to college with a girl who could not tie lace-up shoes or tell time from anything other than a digital clock. I kid you not.

But yeah, Miss Raquel might want to focus on doing some growing up before she worries about educating her future children. It takes a whole lot of time, effort and dedication to home-school successfully, and if her horse is any indication of her abilities to nurture a living being, I hope children are a "blessing" she won't be receiving for the forseeable future.

[Conuly]

My husband went to college with a girl who could not tie lace-up shoes or tell time from anything other than a digital clock. I kid you not.

I learned before college, but no joke, I was twelve before I learned to tie my shoes. Serious fine motor control issues that were never fully acknowledged by my parents or teachers. When people have odd gaps in their abilities, I try not to make fun of them too much, because it really could've been me. There was nothing wrong with my education or intelligence, and I wasn't especially coddled or sheltered at home, I just was not able to do that. (The only explanation I ever got was that it would've been too hard to get me help through the schools and keep me in the gifted program, so it was easier to act as though all my issues were caused by lefthandedness. Don't do that.)

As far as that goes, though, if both the 15 year old and the 6 year old are typically developing and have been educated every year since, um, six, then there is something seriously wrong if the 15 year old can not do the math their younger sibling can. And if they're not typically developing, then the responsible parent gets extra help for the slow child and extra enrichment for the speedy one. Sometimes you actually cannot do everything yourself, so stop standing on your useless pride and help your kid out a bit!

[lilwriter85]

The answer about a 15 year old not being pressured to speed up is stupid. Like others have said in this thread if a 15 year old can't do basic math then something is seriously wrong. Miss Raquel should realize that basic math skills are needed whether a person attends college or not. We know that seems very likely MR will not attend college. There have been people who have been successful at homeschooling, but I suspect MR's mom is a crappy homeschooling teacher. It also seems MR's older brother isn't attending college.

I think the Jim Erskine's 20 Reasons to Homeschool comic is a bit ridiculous for several reasons. The part about metal detectors and security guards aren't things that happen at every school. Maybe there will be increased usage of metal detectors in small town schools after the Sandy Hook shooting. There are other reasons for school security guards that have nothing to do with school shootings. There have been several parent/relative abducting children incidents in the past and that is part of the reason for security guards. Not all schools have gang activity either.

Other parts of that comic were stupid and I know some homeschooling parents that don't do some of those things. The part about sleeping in on rainy days is just dumb. I knew a fundie lite homeschooling mom that would've never let her kids do that stuff. Their school days always started at 8:30 and she stressed punctuality. She also wouldn't have let her kids wear pajamas all day. Erskine's comic is totally geared towards Christian homeschooling families. Some secular homeschoolers would disagree with the prayer part.

MR's parents seem well off and I have to wonder if they ever considered private Christian schools for their kids. I know many homeschooling parents are great teaching their kids socialization skills and helping them have thick skin. Last year after reading several of MR's posts, I got the vibe that her parents haven't taught her deep socialization skills. She whined about her friends several times for really dumb things and then there was that incident when she tried out for a play. I think MR would have got her ass handed to her if she had attended some private Christian school.

[Wolfie]

Unless the 6 year old is my child prodigy brother, then the 15 year old has some learning issues that need to be addressed.

[yewchapel]

I have dyscalculia but even my mathematical ability is above that of a 6yo! I also struggled with learning to tie shoelaces and reading analogue clocks, but it was important that others did make me do those things. I really worry for children with SOTDRT educations whose learning disorders (like dyslexia) get unnoticed or they are acknowledged without them getting any actual help.

[ILoveJellybeans]

15 year old at a lower level than a 6 year old

Yeah......thats not a good advertisement for homeschooling (unless the 15 year old has learning disabilities, or the 6 year old is a genius)

Although with some of the examples of the SOTDRT we have seen, it honestly wouldnt suprise me. Especially if the 15 year old was a girl.

[crazyforkate]

Well, in some circles of this world ignorance has become a sacrament, and Raquel's post is not a surprise at all considering the environment she lives in. I felt sick reading that.

[formergothardite]

I think homeschooling so you can work in pajamas or sleep late are the worst reasons to homeschool. And anyone who brags that that is their reason to homeschool has to be doing a bad job of educating their kids.

I think Raquel's mom is probably as shallow and lazy as she is, except she most likely got a good education, where Raquel didn't. So, unless things change, Raquel's children are going to be educated by a self-absorbed mother who doesn't really know anything and doesn't really care to learn anything. Raquel gets big ideas and then when things get hard just quits. She has never been made to follow through on what she starts. Remember when she was all into Latin? She had Latin all over her blog except it was all wrong and when that was pointed out, instead of going back, fixing her mistakes and learning, she just quit. The love of the horse didn't last long. Her job at the cafe didn't seem to last long. And I image that when it comes to educating her children, when it gets slightly hard or boring, she will just give up and let her kids fend for themselves.

[Maggie Mae]

Well, I know that on a different board (not saying the name because they know about us and they don't like us - I'm sure you can figure it out) the Christian Moms would "encourage" each other; and there was a lot of people who would post things like "I have 4 kids under 5 and I'm pregnant, I have morning sickness and I can't seem to homeschool my 7 year old and my 9 year old, should I send them to public school?" and the other moms would come and tell that woman not to send the kids to school, to just take a break, and that they were in a season where it's rough, but you can pick it back up later. Some of the women seemed to ALWAYS be "on a break" from homeschooling.

[kaetrin]

I think homeschooling so you can work in pajamas or sleep late are the worst reasons to homeschool. And anyone who brags that that is their reason to homeschool has to be doing a bad job of educating their kids.

I think Raquel's mom is probably as shallow and lazy as she is, except she most likely got a good education, where Raquel didn't. So, unless things change, Raquel's children are going to be educated by a self-absorbed mother who doesn't really know anything and doesn't really care to learn anything. Raquel gets big ideas and then when things get hard just quits. She has never been made to follow through on what she starts. Remember when she was all into Latin? She had Latin all over her blog except it was all wrong and when that was pointed out, instead of going back, fixing her mistakes and learning, she just quit. The love of the horse didn't last long. Her job at the cafe didn't seem to last long. And I image that when it comes to educating her children, when it gets slightly hard or boring, she will just give up and let her kids fend for themselves.

And unfortunately, she'll have "mentors" like Kelly @ Generation Cedar who insist that talking to your children at the dinner table is a totally sufficient education, and that they will learn better if left to their own devices most of the time. Except when you are "training" them, of course.

[JenXer]

I think homeschooling so you can work in pajamas or sleep late are the worst reasons to homeschool.

Uh oh.

I wouldn't say that it's one of the reasons why we homeschool but it sure is one of the benefits!

[formergothardite]

It is one thing to say that you are homeschooling for (fill in the blank reasons) and that as a plus you like that you don't have to get up early but that isn't why you homeschool. But it is another thing to homeschool just because you don't want to get your kids up and dressed and ready for school.

[Conuly]

Uh oh.

I wouldn't say that it's one of the reasons why we homeschool but it sure is one of the benefits!

Also, I can't help thinking that if your reason really is "the local schools are crap but we don't have the money to go private" it might not be tactful to say that to somebody who sends their kids to the local schools. Giving a lighter answer might just be the kind way to go.

Of course, nowadays lots of kids seem to go to school in their jammies, at least around here.

[rward]

I learned before college, but no joke, I was twelve before I learned to tie my shoes. Serious fine motor control issues that were never fully acknowledged by my parents or teachers. When people have odd gaps in their abilities, I try not to make fun of them too much, because it really could've been me. There was nothing wrong with my education or intelligence, and I wasn't especially coddled or sheltered at home, I just was not able to do that. (The only explanation I ever got was that it would've been too hard to get me help through the schools and keep me in the gifted program, so it was easier to act as though all my issues were caused by lefthandedness. Don't do that.)

I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, so I couldn't tie my own shoes until I was 10. I could barely write at all until the 3rd grade (I still don't hold a pen right), they mostly passed me along because I was so far ahead in mental abilities that holding me back for physical issues would have been a waste of time. Heck, I walked on my knees until I was four, and not a day doesn't go by that I don't walk into walls and trip over my own feet.

Despite all that, I wasn't diagnosed until age 27. My mom took me to doctors, who alternated between "retarded" (that was a diagnostic word 35 years ago) and "attention seeking".

I don't judge people for much of anything.

[salex]

Uh, I wrote my university dissertation on Jane Austen, and I can tell you unequivocally that studying Austen as literature is not the same thing as having a conversation about it with your mother. Hell, my mum and I both have English degrees and our discussions about books aren't the same as actually studying the books.

I was in a book club with a group of women who all had advanced degrees in English and Creative Writing. Our book club discussions were quite different from the club in the city I moved to next. There, while the women were all college educated, they were not English majors. One woman in particular tended to believe that if a book was written in first person, it was an actual autobiography.

[YPestis]

It always irked me that fundies use this excuse each kid "learns at a different pace" to let their kids get behind on their education. If a 15 year old can't do math taught to 6 year olds, that's not a kid learning at "different pace"! Likewise, if a 6 year old can do geometry and trig, that's not a normal child who's kind of "good" in math. We complain that fundies ignore children with learning disabilities, but they would probably also fail to challenge their gifted children. I can't imagine what the Duggars would do with a gifted child. Probably pat themselves on the back and ignore it.

I predict the current crop of fundie children, educated at the whim of their constantly birthing moms, will be in for a rude awakening when they realize their "education" shuts out of many lucrative careers.

[Knight of Ni]

A friend of my mom's home schooled her three boys. My mom would say that her friend would say that there were some days where they would just "never get around" to doing home school, but it was ok because other days she would have them working "all day."

In another case, my brother's best friend's sister was home schooled in high school. When she tried to enroll at the local technical school they told her they wouldn't accept her homeschool completion certificate. She had to take classes to get a GED before they would let her enroll. I don't really know if she ever went through with it.

[JenXer]

When she tried to enroll at the local technical school they told her they wouldn't accept her homeschool completion certificate.

Wow, that's a shame. Our community college let my son take classes before he even graduated from homeschool high school. He had to take the placement tests but not get a GED. Then MIT took him after that.

It's been our experience that the no school some days, lots of school other days can work fine. After all, college classes are often only twice a week. We did do math every day, though.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Her reasons arent really that good...and what does the writer of that cartoon thing think actually goes on in school anyway:

1. Gangs arent that much of an issue, its not like every kid in public school joins a gang, most dont. Some kids develop their own litle groups of friends, but that isnt an issue, even the fundie bloggers all have their own little cliques. ATI is basically a big clique.

2. Teacher pupil ratio isnt one on one when homeschooling either, especially if you have 8 kids all in different grades, and are also pregnant, breastfeeding a baby and trying to occupy a preschooler. At least in a school they can teach the kids the same thing at the same time instead of trying to teach algebra to one kid and how to count to 10 to another.

3. No metal detectors and security guards in our schools...but thats because we have gun control, and that stopped school shootings.

4. They only really socialise with family members and other white, homeschooling Christians with loads of kids, even if they are talking to people of all ages. Kids are put with other kids because theyre at the same place developmentally and have a lot in common, but you dont need to do that with adults as theres not really much of a difference in development between a 30 and a 40 year old.....but unless they work for Vision Forum or something, its not like theyre ever going to be in an environment (other than church) where everyone has the same religious beliefs as them. When theyre an adult, theyre going to have to socialise with people who are different races, religions and have different political beliefs, and that matters more than being able to relate to people older than them, as that wont matter when theyre 30.

5, 6...just being lazy

7. Kids are free to follow their religious beliefs, its just not forced because not everyone shares their beliefs. Its only fair

8. Kids need decent clothes whether homeschooled or not, and most American schools dont even have uniforms...

9. Cafeteria food was actually quite nice at my school...and if you dont like it, you can bring your own lunch.

10. Hmmmmmmm true I guess...but you can still celebrate your birthday at the weekend instead. Also I have heard kids complain that their birthday is in the holidays so they dont get to bring in treats for their class or have all their friends sing happy birthday to them.

11. Sorta true, but if youre always on vacation like the Duggars are, theres not much learning going on.

12. Whether you homeschool or not, you should have plenty of books for your kid to read, and read to them regularly

13. Who cares if your kid wants to pick their own style, or dye their hair blue or something. As long as its not permanent, let kids express themselves. Although then again, fundies dont want individuality.

14. What do they think kids learn in school??? Also most teachers dont hide their curriculum from the parents, feel free to ask what the kids will be learning this year or how they are doing. Consent forms are needed for sex ed and stuff anyway.

15 and 16 are fairly irrelevant (and 16 is kinda lazy)

17. Basically, you can make the kids clean the house and just say its part of their education....nice.

18. You can bake cookies with the kid at the weekend, after school and during the holidays. Its not like they stay at school permanently til the age of 18.

19. Kids try and teach their preschool aged siblings stuff outside of school anyway, loads of kids read to their little siblings, or play school and try and teach them stuff. I taught my sister to write her name and count to 10 when she was about 3, I wasnt homeschooled.

20. Family is great, but everyone needs their own life as well...

I think fundie gifted kids probably are ignored and not challenged, as they like having dumb sheep instead of people who think...In the Duggar house, James could be a genius for all we (and Michelle) know, but cause they dont challenge the kids as the curriculum is so crap, they put their energy into destroying the house.

[wildcatgrrl]

How ignorant. I can't imagine why ANYONE would think it was OK for an average 15-year-old to be behind an average six-year-old in math. Don't even get me started on Literature classes as a "waste of time" (says she who is currently in college to become a school librarian.)