Pastor Rick Warren's son committed suicide

[meda]

No, suicide is no longer considered a crime in any US state. However, even though it is no longer a crime, as a civil matter in certain jurisdictions suicide as a cause of death can in some situations prevent the deceased's beneficiaries from collecting life insurance policies or bringing civil suits involving the death.

[crazyforkate]

In North America "commit suicide" is totally acceptable, although I have also heard "completed suicide". It's not considered derogatory or criminal. That's interesting about Ireland - I wonder how it is in other languages? In French it's a verb, "se suicider" - to suicide yourself.

[EmiGirl]

My son was 7 months old when I looked at his father and said "Something is very, very wrong with this child." He has and always has had bipolar disorder. I know it doesn't always manifest that early and when it does it's often unusually severe, but it does happen, unfortunately.

The Warren family has my sincerest condolences.

I'm not bipolar, but I do suffer from depression. My mom said that she knew something wasn't quite "right" from the time I was a few years old. She said she took me to child psychologists and they all said I was just "spoiled." Finally when I was about 12 I was diagnosed with a chemical imbalance and was put on antidepressants immediately. Evidently my brain has never produced the right chemicals on its own.

[Freed]

I have clinical depression and an anxiety disorder, and the symptoms for both of them have been there as long as I can remember. I was suicidal by the age of 8. It didn't help that I grew up in a Pearl home. I can remember my mother punishing me at (around) 5 for not being cheerful enough, and trying to explain that I just couldn't. It took me until 21 to seek help, and I fought for it every step of the way.

As someone who's been there, I really hope he's found peace now.

[Savoring Samsara]

In North America "commit suicide" is totally acceptable, although I have also heard "completed suicide". It's not considered derogatory or criminal. That's interesting about Ireland - I wonder how it is in other languages? In French it's a verb, "se suicider" - to suicide yourself.

Same in Spanish - "suicidarse."

Another +1 here for saying that in the US, "commit suicide" is not an offensive phrase in my dialect. I'm really fascinated to learn it is different in Ireland.

[Dandruff]

I feel sad for the whole family, but especially for the son. Something I read in the CNN article (http:// religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/06/son-of-pastor-rick-warren-commits-suicide/?hpt=hp_t2) puzzles me though. This is the first part of the letter quoted from Rick Warren to his staff:

Subject: Needing your prayers

To my dear staff,

Over the past 33 years we’ve been together through every kind of crisis. Kay and I’ve been privileged to hold your hands as you faced a crisis or loss, stand with you at gravesides, and prayed for you when ill. Today, we need your prayer for us.

No words can express the anguished grief we feel right now. Our youngest son, Matthew, age 27, and a lifelong member of Saddleback, died today.

You who watched Matthew grow up knew he was an incredibly kind, gentle, and compassionate man. He had a brilliant intellect and a gift for sensing who was most in pain or most uncomfortable in a room. He’d then make a bee-line to that person to engage and encourage them.

But only those closest knew that he struggled from birth with mental illness, dark holes of depression, and even suicidal thoughts. In spite of America’s best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided. Today, after a fun evening together with Kay and me, in a momentary wave of despair at his home, he took his life.

I'm trying to reconcile 'Over the past 33 years we've been together through every kind of crisis' and their request for prayers with 'But only those closest knew that he struggled from birth with mental illness, dark holes of depression, and even suicidal thoughts'. Why did only the closest know if they might have had so many more people praying and showing support when he was ill? I can totally understand if Matthew had requested privacy or the doctors thought it was best...but the article doesn't say.

[laura oz]

Suicide is strong in my family; so many of us have decided life hurts too much. I'll never forget when someone close to me killed himself after bad news from his doctor, and his grown son crying like a baby and saying "My daddy is in hell isn't he?" All I could say was "I think that God has to understand." It felt so inadequate and lame. As a mother I just can't imagine the pain his parents must be feeling right now, and my heart goes out to the Warren family.

[gustava]

I feel sad for the whole family, but especially for the son. Something I read in the CNN article (http:// religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/06/son-of-pastor-rick-warren-commits-suicide/?hpt=hp_t2) puzzles me though. This is the first part of the letter quoted from Rick Warren to his staff:

I'm trying to reconcile 'Over the past 33 years we've been together through every kind of crisis' and their request for prayers with 'But only those closest knew that he struggled from birth with mental illness, dark holes of depression, and even suicidal thoughts'. Why did only the closest know if they might have had so many more people praying and showing support when he was ill? I can totally understand if Matthew had requested privacy or the doctors thought it was best...but the article doesn't say.

if one is prone to depression or some other mental health issue, and it is not known about outside the immediate family, it seems to indicate that the family is hiding it. Therefore, the son might have had a very, very limited support network.

Did he have the right to be unhappy, given that his father is king of the prosperity gospel? If he's unhappy, doesn't that undermine what his father is teaching?

[GenerationCedarchip]

I've never been a fan of Warren's but I still find this news heartbreaking. The scrutiny and second-guessing pastors face in fundie and fundie lite culture is intense, and I can't imagine adding that to the terrible grief of losing their son. I really feel for that whole family.

[Mama Mia]

if one is prone to depression or some other mental health issue, and it is not known about outside the immediate family, it seems to indicate that the family is hiding it. Therefore, the son might have had a very, very limited support network.

Did he have the right to be unhappy, given that his father is king of the prosperity gospel? If he's unhappy, doesn't that undermine what his father is teaching?

Or maybe a grieving father whose son just killed himself the day before isn't putting together a letter with exactly the right wording to be picked apart by anyone who reads it. :roll:

[BravaAmica]

if one is prone to depression or some other mental health issue, and it is not known about outside the immediate family, it seems to indicate that the family is hiding it. Therefore, the son might have had a very, very limited support network.

Did he have the right to be unhappy, given that his father is king of the prosperity gospel? If he's unhappy, doesn't that undermine what his father is teaching?

Yes, he had a right to be unhappy. However, he probably didn't know he had that right. I'm sad he may have felt he didn't have another way to attain happiness or at least self-acceptance.

I do find Rick Warren's comment about the "fun evening" the night before his suicide disingeneous. Someone can hide it so you never know how depressed they are. Or fake being happy so people around them don't notice/can easily ignore how depressed someone else is. Yes, you can have a "fun evening" yet still be depressed and not want to go on.

[VooDooChild]

This is something no parent should have to go through. I hope the family gets the support they need during this difficult time.

[Syd+Marky]

My son was 7 months old when I looked at his father and said "Something is very, very wrong with this child." He has and always has had bipolar disorder. I know it doesn't always manifest that early and when it does it's often unusually severe, but it does happen, unfortunately.

The Warren family has my sincerest condolences.

This could also be a genetic thing that they knew about.That would be a reason to look at as being "from birth"...

I feel horrible for the family.I dont agree with Warrens teachings,(the little Ive heard is just too Gothardesque),but noone deserves to go through a tragedy like this.I cant even fathom that kind of pain, as a parent.

[Katiebug]

Rick Warren's megachurch has a large staff - the children's ministry alone has over 40 staffers. I'm sure Saddleback has several hundred employees among all of the locations and activities, although some would be part timers. I work in an organization of around 200 people and I can guarantee that 90% of us don't even know the names of our VP's wife and kids, much less would be aware if one of them was suffering from a mental health issue. I'm sure it's no different in a large megachurch. I read that his son worked in Saddleback's media distribution center, so while coworkers there may have been aware of his mental health issues along with those in Rick Warren's inner circle/senior leadership who were personal family friends, I doubt it was a widely known thing.

Rick Warren is also absolutely NOT "king of the prosperity gospel" and in fact has been sharply critical of that movement for a long time. Perhaps he's being confused with Joel Osteen. Don't get me wrong - there's plenty of room for criticism of Rick Warren and Saddleback Church, but if you're going to make a strong claim like that, at least be right!

Suicide is a tragedy. As a parent, I can't imagine losing my child for any reason - especially at his own hand. Our kids are supposed to bury us, not the other way around. It has to be heartbreaking for the family. :cry:

[cjsmom]

My thoughts are with the Warrens family. No family should have to bury a loved one lost to suicide.

My son has an autism spectrum disorder and a comorbid mood disorder. He contemplated suicide at age 10. He's in a healthy place now, thank goodness. It's very difficult when there aren't always clear answers to help people, especially not your children.

[JenXer]

I knew within a week or two of birth that my third child was depressed. She was just a chronically unhappy baby. Not colicky, just unhappy. Thank goodness that she seemed to outgrow it around age 2 and became a sunny, sociable little thing. (She still is, even as a teenager.)

I've since learned that a mother's untreated depression during pregnancy can lead to mood disorders in infants. These aren't always permanent, but can last a couple of years.

That's why a lot of experts are now recommending that depressed pregnant women be treated with antidepressants. There is no evidence of harm (except with a few medications at a certain dose at a certain stage of pregnancy). Some babies go through a day or two of withdrawal symptoms, but that's preferable to years of a mood disorder.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I knew within a week or two of birth that my third child was depressed. She was just a chronically unhappy baby. Not colicky, just unhappy. Thank goodness that she seemed to outgrow it around age 2 and became a sunny, sociable little thing. (She still is, even as a teenager.)

I've since learned that a mother's untreated depression during pregnancy can lead to mood disorders in infants. These aren't always permanent, but can last a couple of years.

That's why a lot of experts are now recommending that depressed pregnant women be treated with antidepressants. There is no evidence of harm (except with a few medications at a certain dose at a certain stage of pregnancy). Some babies go through a day or two of withdrawal symptoms, but that's preferable to years of a mood disorder.

This is fascinating. I have always assumed I would have to go off my meds to have a baby and I've started making my plans to do that. But I've been depressed since I was very young - my parents say I was an "absurdly good" baby, which I think just means quiet and somber, and my earliest memories are of feeling oppressive, indescribable sadness, almost like I was suffocating. My biggest fear is that I will pass this on to my children.

[miffy]

Rick Warren is also absolutely NOT "king of the prosperity gospel" and in fact has been sharply critical of that movement for a long time. Perhaps he's being confused with Joel Osteen. Don't get me wrong - there's plenty of room for criticism of Rick Warren and Saddleback Church, but if you're going to make a strong claim like that, at least be right!

Yeah, after the success of his book he paid back all the money he had been paid by the church & then started reverse tithing (giving 90% of his earnings to the church, living off 10%).

[Three and Done]

My cousin committed suicide at 22, and our family will never be the same.

His daughter (who was four at the time) will always wonder why her father didn't love her enough to be there for her.

His parents will always wonder what they could have done to make things different.

His siblings will always anguish over whether their actions (or lack thereof) made a difference.

My children remember a sweet, funny boy who "threw them around" (all in fun, and to shrieks of laughter) in the pool on numerous occasions... And he wasn't THAT much older than my oldest two...

His mother and sister had to force their way into the room where he had hung himself. It was a brutal experience for them, and they will never be able to forget what they saw.

More than anything, we as a family just wish we had an answer WHY... We will never know. That is the ultimate pain and heartbreak for any family.

My heart goes out to anyone who has had to live through the suicide of a loved one.

[LadyBlue]

This is fascinating. I have always assumed I would have to go off my meds to have a baby and I've started making my plans to do that. But I've been depressed since I was very young - my parents say I was an "absurdly good" baby, which I think just means quiet and somber, and my earliest memories are of feeling oppressive, indescribable sadness, almost like I was suffocating. My biggest fear is that I will pass this on to my children.

I've had depression as long as I can remember, though I wasn't officially diagnosed until I was in my early 20s. I was on heavy duty doses of Zoloft (over the "max dose") for several years, then weaned myself off when I decided to get pregnant with my eldest, who is nearly 12 now. I haven't gone back on medication...for a number of reasons. I had "PPD" after each of the kids, although it was much less after the 2 babies that I used encapsulated placenta after the birth. The only child who has any issues is my eldest, who was also the only one subjected to pitocin, which is showing more and more evidence of causing mood and attachment disorders. My other kids were/are all usually pretty happy with no signs of any mental health issues. My youngest is the happiest baby I've ever met in my life, despite the fact that I had the roughest pregnancy with him.

I think they need to do more studies, because I have a feeling they're missing something. And I really disagree with the recommendation. Most anti-depressants are still considered Category C for pregnancy, some are even classed as D. Women should be told the risks and decide for themselves.

On topic, I'm sorry for the family's loss. A friend has lost a child to suicide and the pain for those left behind is horrible.

[apple1]

Rick Warren is also absolutely NOT "king of the prosperity gospel" and in fact has been sharply critical of that movement for a long time. Perhaps he's being confused with Joel Osteen. Don't get me wrong - there's plenty of room for criticism of Rick Warren and Saddleback Church, but if you're going to make a strong claim like that, at least be right!

Suicide is a tragedy. As a parent, I can't imagine losing my child for any reason - especially at his own hand. Our kids are supposed to bury us, not the other way around. It has to be heartbreaking for the family. :cry:

Agreed.

I also have to comment to whomever criticized Warren for not "sharing" (publicizing) his son's struggles. His son was an individual who deserved privacy in spite of the very public nature of the father's life. Actually, kudos to Rick Warren for respecting his son's privacy. As a minor child, respecting that privacy was a mandate IMO. Once the child became an adult, IMO, the struggles should have only been made public with the consent of the son.

There are a number of issues for which I am strongly critical of Rick Warren, but this is not one of them.

[MamaJunebug]

Survivor of suicides, here. I really know little about Mr. Warren, but he, his family and all here on FJ who know depression and its ugly ugly effects are all very much in my prayers. :pray:

Strength and hope, my doves.

[JenXer]

The only child who has any issues is my eldest, who was also the only one subjected to pitocin, which is showing more and more evidence of causing mood and attachment disorders.

I very much understand the desire to figure out why things happen, but just as anecdotally my pitocin induced children show no signs of mood or attachment disorders. Thankfully, neither do any of my friends' children.

I really like The Skeptical OB... http://www.skepticalob.com She is not sunshine and light but she does do a good job of separating what she calls "woo" from research.

OnceModestTwiceShy, I highly recommend seeing a psychiatrist with experience treating pregnant women before making any medication decisions. Not all docs are up to date with the latest research. I'm lucky to be seeing a doctor who specializes in prenatal and postpartum depression. I'm pregnant now and wasn't depressed until the second trimester. But when it hit, it hit hard. He prescribed Wellbutrin and it has helped immensely.

There is a book called Pregnant on Prozac by Shoshana Bennett. She does a fantastic job of separating the woo from the research.

http://www.amazon.com/Pregnant-Prozac-E ... 0762749407

Best wishes to you! Depression is a bitch and needs to be treated as best as possible. My heart goes out to the Warren family, especially the son. I deeply hope that he is at peace now.

[yewchapel]

Purpose Driven Life and the sequel (can't remember the title) was very popular with my evangelical-but-mainstream previous church. I wouldn't call Warren or his church fundie although they are obviously popular with fundies. I think his association with Obama made him anathema to many fundies. While I have many criticisms of Warren and his church (as a liberal Anglo-Catholic I kind of would I guess!), I do find him one of the more tolerable 'celebrity' pastors, although I don't like him like I like Shane Claiborne or Rob Bell.

And like others have said, peace and prayers for the Warren family and the son, who I hope is at peace now.

[Isis]

Just an observation on the title of the thread. Here in Ireland, people don't say "commit suicide" because it is no longer a crime. It's considered incorrect like calling a special needs person handicapped or retarded. We say "died by suicide" or "complete suicide". I've seen it a lot around the board. Just wondering if it's a US thing. I must stress that I am not personally offended by the terminology, just an observation is all.

I , like others, found this interesting. Although I have noticed that it seems to have become more common to say someone "took their life" rather than committed suicide. But I suspect that has more to avoid the word suicide than committted?

I feel so sorry for anyone with personal experince with this kind of loss.

I confess - I think I had PDL confused with that other book (The Secret, I think) myself.