Maxwells got some well-off acolytes :(

[kpmom]

I wonder too, in regards to these oldest daughters getting married (or not), is it possible they've become so entrenched in their roles as surrogate mothers that to give that up would almost feel like abandonment? Kind of like a mom abandoning her family.

In Sarah's case, she had a very active roll in raising all of the reversals. Those are her kids as much as they are Steve and Teri's. Maybe leaving would feel like leaving her kids.

Or maybe the right guy just hasn't come along yet.

[WonderingInWA]

How old was Rebecca when she married?

IIRC, I think Rebecca was almost 30 when she got married. Does anyone remember?

[slickcat79]

What bothered me was the seeming class warfare with the sad face at the end of the title and in your response regarding ridiculous profit margins.

Selling advice, good or bad, is what it is. People are suckers, rich or poor.

What are you talking about?

People might be suckers regardless of income level, but rich suckers have a better capability to line Steve's pockets and thus affirm that his abuses of his family are the right and godly thing to do. I wouldn't want to see poor people waste their already-limited funds on Maxwell crap, but at least if all their supporters were poor it would limit Steve's ability to spread dangerous rhetoric.

[Black Aliss]

She was the original daughter they started the sheltering with, and so her entire life past age 8 or so has been shelter shelter shelter but also probably hearing more propaganda about how great it was than the younger kids, just because her parents were still figuring it out.

She also had to live with Teri's [apparently quite severe] postpartum depression, too young to understand what was going on, but old enough to be deeply affected by it. It's possible she sees in herself the same potential for depression and doesn't want to be in the same situation as her mother was.

[Helena]

What are you talking about?

People might be suckers regardless of income level, but rich suckers have a better capability to line Steve's pockets and thus affirm that his abuses of his family are the right and godly thing to do. I wouldn't want to see poor people waste their already-limited funds on Maxwell crap, but at least if all their supporters were poor it would limit Steve's ability to spread dangerous rhetoric.

To paraphrase: I would that everyone were poor or I would like to level the playing field in order to prevent or stall a message I disagree with.

[revengeforwanda]

I wonder too, in regards to these oldest daughters getting married (or not), is it possible they've become so entrenched in their roles as surrogate mothers that to give that up would almost feel like abandonment? Kind of like a mom abandoning her family.

In Sarah's case, she had a very active roll in raising all of the reversals. Those are her kids as much as they are Steve and Teri's. Maybe leaving would feel like leaving her kids.

Or maybe the right guy just hasn't come along yet.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm struggling to recall the specific details, but hasn't Sarah made references to "our reversal babies," implying that they were as much her children as Stevehovah and Terified's?

[YPestis]

I think fundies were correct in that small businesses can be lucrative. Many fundies prefer to be self-employed. Some of them have got to be successful (just by sheer numbers). Most are not. However, it's easy to believe that Steve has followers who are comfortably well off.

That said, the picture they have of the "nice" kitchen are nice enough but we don't know where the house is. It could be way out in the boonies, and/or in a cheap part of the country. Sometimes, I peek at housing prices around here and you can get a beautiful house, brand-new 4+ bedroom home for around $300k----about half an hour out from the city. Go further out, it's probably close to $200k. I mean, it's not cheap cheap, but it's doable if are pulling in a decent income. Also, remember that many fundies pride themselves on DIY jobs. They could just as easily renovated their homes and it made it look much nicer than when they bought it. I don't think we can judge a family's finances until we know where they live and how many breadwinners there are in the family.

Back to wealthy fundies. We know they exist. The Botkins have always looked comfortable. The Maxwells do pretty well for themselves. Most of these fundies are not rich, and they do pretty well. We know that there's money in the fundie books/videos circuit. I don't think most fundies are well off, but within any subculture, there's bound to be some wealthy ones. If reading those Mormon Mommy blogs have taught me anything, critical thinking is not always necessary to successfully run a small business. I've seen very conservative Mormon families who appear to do pretty well for themselves, despite lacking a wide perspective on the world.

Re: Sarah's single state. I always assumed the Maxwells are just very picky about sending their daughters off. They pride themselves on "high" standards. The parents, and probably Sarah, fear the world. Heck, Steve and Teri refuse to let their kids alone until they are in their mid-teens!

I think this fear makes them pick at every single item in a suitor's background. If he so much as did little league, he could have an appetite for sports OMGOD run! run! run!. That's what I picture their reactions are to every single nonMaxwell approved item. I think Sarah has probably gotten suitors but they were rejected as too liberal. I think Sarah is too sheltered to realize what's happening. Steve and Teri are so wrapped up in their own ideology they don't realize no one will ever be "good enough" for their daughters. Letting someone enter your own life will always mean new ideas, new habits. They will NEVER find a man with the EXACT same standards, the EXACT same beliefs, the EXACT same upbringing. They lack this understanding about how uniquely isolationist their lives are and so Sarah will remain unmarried. I don't know if Anna and Mary will also suffer similarly. Maybe the parents will realize their mistakes and "loosen up" on their standards. Maybe Anna and Mary realizes their parents mistake and takes the initiative to put themselves out there for courting. If nothing else, Steve knows the family family business will suffer if they can't get at least one adult daughter married.

[Phyllis Styne]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm struggling to recall the specific details, but hasn't Sarah made references to "our reversal babies," implying that they were as much her children as Stevehovah and Terified's?

Yes she did! I remember it was in a caption to a photo of herself about age 8 with a couple of th elittles. Especially creepy to see a grown woman cpationing her photo of her as a child with babies calling them "our reversal babies."

I'm remembering the Maxwell presentation I went to . There was one family that looked kinda poor, the mom and girls all in home-knit serapes that iddn't look too well made. There was one lady with out teeth but with a lot of books to buy. Then there were two with makeup, moussed hair and old but nice-quality sparkly outfits (liek bedazzled jacket and bellbottom sets) The cars on the lot were all mostly late model, no junkers,than I remember. I have got to start alocating more time here so my posts won't be so messy. Sorry for this. Will do better next time!

[Justme]

I'm sure there are a lot of 1st generation fundies or fundie want a bee's. It's very possible that many families lived pretty normal lives until recently. Just like Stevie worked in the corporate world for 20 years. He had a nice nest egg before he jumped to the fundie side....

[Letgo]

I think Mrs Steve will have no problem with the courtship thing. She could employ the God and his mysterious ways argument. Then we have the tried and tested God's plan and how we cannot know what the great and good planner is up to. Finally there is the sometimes the answer is no thing. The families thought they had the message right but, no, wait, they were not listening hard enough or praying enough or something and in actual fact the answer from above was no. All said in some emotionless voice like she believes it. Done. Pay up for the chat.

I think the Maxwells will just spin the broken courtship as being SUCH a blessing! God had a better plan than we did. We thought it was so sad but Joseph now sees that it was for the best and he is so happy! God took them through the broken courtship for a reason and they trusted the Lord's wisdom. Joseph is still at home, Steve is his authority, etc. Joe is still doing things the right way-Steve's way. And Sarah's lack of courtship is explained as being blessed by singleness. Their sheltering is NOT a failure because the children marry late or not at all. No, it shows what a success it is because all of the "children" trust Steve and submit to him. Steve and Teri have their hearts, even when a courtship is broken or never happens. No matter what, the children are at home, are happy, are with the family, they are not being adults, have no education, and are continuing to be sheltered. And that is the right way.

[gustava]

I think the Maxwells will just spin the broken courtship as being SUCH a blessing! God had a better plan than we did. We thought it was so sad but Joseph now sees that it was for the best and he is so happy! God took them through the broken courtship for a reason and they trusted the Lord's wisdom. Joseph is still at home, Steve is his authority, etc. Joe is still doing things the right way-Steve's way. And Sarah's lack of courtship is explained as being blessed by singleness. Their sheltering is NOT a failure because the children marry late or not at all. No, it shows what a success it is because all of the "children" trust Steve and submit to him. Steve and Teri have their hearts, even when a courtship is broken or never happens. No matter what, the children are at home, are happy, are with the family, they are not being adults, have no education, and are continuing to be sheltered. And that is the right way.

Sad but true.....and we soooooooooo need a regurgitating smiley.

[Tangy Bee]

Too bad a FJer didn't attend any conferences this time. I really wish they would come to NC. I have 2 long skirts. It would be the best case study ever. These folks are worth the research.

[Free2BeMe]

No one could be up to Steve's standards.

Steve's not up to Steve's standards. lol.

[MamaJunebug]

What are you talking about?

People might be suckers regardless of income level, but rich suckers have a better capability to line Steve's pockets and thus affirm that his abuses of his family are the right and godly thing to do. I wouldn't want to see poor people waste their already-limited funds on Maxwell crap, but at least if all their supporters were poor it would limit Steve's ability to spread dangerous rhetoric.

Slickcat gets it. Thanks for saying it so well.

[Myfanwy]

I think the Maxwells will just spin the broken courtship as being SUCH a blessing! God had a better plan than we did. We thought it was so sad but Joseph now sees that it was for the best and he is so happy! God took them through the broken courtship for a reason and they trusted the Lord's wisdom. Joseph is still at home, Steve is his authority, etc. Joe is still doing things the right way-Steve's way. And Sarah's lack of courtship is explained as being blessed by singleness. Their sheltering is NOT a failure because the children marry late or not at all. No, it shows what a success it is because all of the "children" trust Steve and submit to him. Steve and Teri have their hearts, even when a courtship is broken or never happens. No matter what, the children are at home, are happy, are with the family, they are not being adults, have no education, and are continuing to be sheltered. And that is the right way.

That is exactly what I said, sarcastically, but still that is what I said. Spinity. Spin. Spin. So much spin the world may just move on its axis.

[nelliebelle1197]

I think the Maxwells will just spin the broken courtship as being SUCH a blessing! God had a better plan than we did. We thought it was so sad but Joseph now sees that it was for the best and he is so happy! God took them through the broken courtship for a reason and they trusted the Lord's wisdom. Joseph is still at home, Steve is his authority, etc. Joe is still doing things the right way-Steve's way. And Sarah's lack of courtship is explained as being blessed by singleness. Their sheltering is NOT a failure because the children marry late or not at all. No, it shows what a success it is because all of the "children" trust Steve and submit to him. Steve and Teri have their hearts, even when a courtship is broken or never happens. No matter what, the children are at home, are happy, are with the family, they are not being adults, have no education, and are continuing to be sheltered. And that is the right way.

I agree.

[revengeforwanda]

Yes she did! I remember it was in a caption to a photo of herself about age 8 with a couple of th elittles. Especially creepy to see a grown woman cpationing her photo of her as a child with babies calling them "our reversal babies."

I'm remembering the Maxwell presentation I went to . There was one family that looked kinda poor, the mom and girls all in home-knit serapes that iddn't look too well made. There was one lady with out teeth but with a lot of books to buy. Then there were two with makeup, moussed hair and old but nice-quality sparkly outfits (liek bedazzled jacket and bellbottom sets) The cars on the lot were all mostly late model, no junkers,than I remember. I have got to start alocating more time here so my posts won't be so messy. Sorry for this. Will do better next time!

Thanks for filling in the specific details, all I could remember was thinking how "off" the whole thing seemed, but then that's true for ninety percent of the Maxwells' interspersonal relationships. (Something to consider, Steve. :naughty: )