Closet Racist, Adoptive Mom, Annoying Narcissist ...

[DarkAnts]

"Our Little Miss has been away for 10 months now, and is still living the honeymoon. Since there is no expectation of bonding and attachment, she enjoys the reputation as the child that "never gets in trouble". They have seen not a glimpse of the child that lived in our home. So hard."

Only Laurel could find it a negative thing that her daughter is doing well. :(

She is probably upset that her daughter is making her look so foolish. She probably wants her daughter to act out so she has a justification for dumping her in that place.

[DarkAnts]

I hope I'm breaking this link properly... have a look at the comments Laurel has been leaving on other people's blogs. Everything is about her! She has stored up a lifetime of bitterness with regards to how her friends, family, adopted children etc. have treated her!

intensedebate.com/profiles/mamadsdozen

She has now swiffered her comments from that site. She must still be reading FJ how else would she know?

Hi Laurel! :nenner:

[Morton Fan]

She has now swiffered her comments from that site. She must still be reading FJ how else would she know?

Hi Laurel! :nenner:

Many comments are available if you do a google search for "MamaDsDozen." She left quite the internet footprint. My favorite:

"I’m practically famous for my homemade lasagna."

[Morton Fan]

Laurel and I agree on something:

"Oh sweet sister . . . YOU are not crazy . . . but I think you have no idea what really goes on in the Quiverfull (and ATI) movement.

Because of your last post, I just spent the past who-knows-how-many hours going from link to link. We were probably reading the same blogs and posts, but with completely different thoughts and insights.

I jumped on here to respond to your last post, but will just share a few of my thoughts here . . . or maybe more than a few. Hmmm . . . maybe I could write a guest post for you, sharing some of my thoughts. Let me know . . .

We have known far too many families who are over-the-top “quiverfull†or involved with Bill Gothard’s ATI (are you aware of this organization?). SCARY things are going on in the name of the “conservative Christian large family homeschooling movementâ€.

Large Families * Yes. We have 12 children. But, we CHOSE to have 12 children, because we WANTED an extra large family. Many of these families are having more and more children because they are being TOLD that they MUST have “as many as God will allowâ€. Just between you and me (wink), we used birth control (NOT the pill) quite a few times . . . it just didn’t always work. (smile) These families are teaching that ANY kind of birth control is SIN. Period. Even if/when the mother is nearing a mental or physical breakdown because of the stress.

Patriarchy * This is so NOT what YOUR marriage is about. These families have such domineering husbands/fathers that the wives are hardly allowed to even think for themselves. I.Am.Serious. I KNOW many of these families personally. The wives are puppets for their husbands and the children are performers in their daddy’s show.

Courtship * How about “Do not even think about someone of the opposite sex (don’t say that word, either) until you are 25.†Many of the dads even see it as their job to “find†the “right†husband for their daughters. Yes.They.Do. Yes. “Arranged Marriages†are taking place in the good ol’ USA.

Sheltering * Hello?!?! YOU have a television and an xbox in your house?!?! You sinner!!! (not my thoughts . . . but definitely the thoughts of many of these families) Have your children ever gone to a movie theater? Bad! Bad! Have they ever stepped foot in any type of public school program or classroom? Definitely going to hell.

Submissive * Honey . . . you just have NO IDEA how some families and churches would define that word. So NOT the type of submissive that you and I are living out with our dear, godly husbands. These women have completely lost their own identities in the name of “submissionâ€.

Home Church * yea . . . I’ll have to tell you about our personal experience with this one one time (lasted 8 or 9 months maybe). Yikes!

Family Integrated * can be good, but can also be that Daddy & Mommy will just NEVER allow “little johnny†out of their site.

Modesty * sorry, but you just sinned by even saying (writing!) the words “boobs†and “butt cheeksâ€. Horrifying to some. (I’m serious.) Yes. I definitely have an issue with Christian women (and their daughters) who flaunt their boobs and butt cheeks (Oh no! You have caused me to sin.) ATI has “uniforms†(remind me to show you pics of my girls in their navy blue jumpers). Yep. Personal experience . . . we homechurched with other ATI families. These families believe it is a SIN for women to wear pants . . . or shorts . . . or swim suits . . . or skirts above their calves . . . or sleeveless shirts . . . or short hair (buns are what they deem fashionable). I was so “rebellious†that I wore jeans to homechurch one day. Oh my! My husband probably got into trouble for having such a rebellious wife. (side note: I read an NIV Bible instead of King James, too. So rebellious.) (side note #2: hubby was required to shave his beard in order to even join ATI, because “beards are a sign of rebellionâ€.)

Sorry I just wrote a novel, but these articles/blogs/â€organizations†that I read about tonight are so heartbreaking because I KNOW what goes on . . . I have SEEN it with my own eyes . . . I have been JUDGED harshly by these families many, many times . . . I have taken teens into my home when they have “escaped†their own homeschooling houses of horror.

YOU are NOT CRAZY . . . but YOU are NOT the “conservative Christian large family homeschoolers†that these young adults are talking about."

[Alfred_Wayne]

Well it took me a little longer than I thought to discover this forum after Laurel's recent discovery and then the going private of her blog; however I have some insight much like Un-holy_moses! Not only have I been to the house but I've eaten the pie and "world famous" lasagna ! Oh. My. Yes.n :angry-banghead:

there is one thing I want to comment on right off the bat and that is the fact hat now that Laurel has discovered FJ and this forum it will be a LONG time before she STOPS checking in on us and seeing what "mean " and "horrible" things we are saying.... Unless she finds a worse site talking about her or a site that praises her more than we "bash".

Also, just I will say that I haven't been IN the house much since the adoptions ,but I'm pretty "in the loop" via some of the "big kids" (that title might be my biggest pet peeve; they are mature ADULTS!) ... I'll do my best to answer your questions as unholy_moses has, but I have my hands full with a few little ones at home during the week, so i might not have a ton of time to check back!

Speaking of which the 5 year old was just hit with a pony and the offender isn't sorry because "she took my train" how would "mama" handle this situation?! Boarding school? No roses for you. Extra chores? No fun vacation with your friends. :shock:

PS- unholy_moses, you should private message me, I'm oh.so.curious if we've met through the "big kids"!

[jegfile]

Welcome Alfred! It's neat to see all these "insiders" coming out of the woodwork and Laurel has no one to blame but herself!

I'm dying to know how Laurel lost her job as the head of the "school for homeschoolers" (does that not defeat the purpose of homeschooling???? - weird). The only thing I can remember her saying on her blog was that she lost a lot of friends because of it. Oh, and it was political.

Do you have any insight as to why there is estrangement between Laurel and her older children? Is it just that she overshares on the internet or is there more? I noticed a few years ago they were all commenting on her blog and then it suddenly stopped... so they knew she was blogging. Just curious!

[littlemommy]

Welcome, Alfred! How is Batman, btw? ;)

In her comments Laurel said she wouldn't be reading any more of the hateful posts from hateful women like us, but obviously she couldn't stick to that resolution. (I wouldn't be able to either, frankly, even if I sobbed through every post I'd read them all.)

Have any of the "big kids" ever said anything about how the blog makes them feel, with all the oversharing? Was the marriage crisis a real thing or Mama just being super pissed at Papa?

[Alfred_Wayne]

Welcome Alfred! It's neat to see all these "insiders" coming out of the woodwork and Laurel has no one to blame but herself!

I'm dying to know how Laurel lost her job as the head of the "school for homeschoolers" (does that not defeat the purpose of homeschooling???? - weird). The only thing I can remember her saying on her blog was that she lost a lot of friends because of it. Oh, and it was political.

Do you have any insight as to why there is estrangement between Laurel and her older children? Is it just that she overshares on the internet or is there more? I noticed a few years ago they were all commenting on her blog and then it suddenly stopped... so they knew she was blogging. Just curious!

thanks for the welcome, I was kinda nervous to come on here and say that I "know things" because I feel a bit overwhelmed by all 27 pages of comments/discussion and i don't know where to start or what's been said already!

I don't know a lot of the details about the homeschool co-op thing, lots of hear-say, but from what I've heard from Laurel and other adults who were involved in the "co-op" it was pretty dramatic and political!!! I know unholyMoses said something about mus-appropriated funds for religious things at a public school site, or something like that, and i don't know anything about that, so that could be true, but from what i heard it was more from the School Board side of things and personal preference of the Principle who oversaw Laurel and Jim.

Ok, the "big kids"... it seems that a lot of you are curious about this subject. I know all of them (and am friends with more than 2) and although i don't talk each of them regularly, I do hear from some of them fairly often... often enough to have more than 1 perspective on what the hell went down between them and whose mad at whom! Here's what I've put together from personal accounts of different "big kids" and also what I've observed:

Laurel raised her "big kids" to be independent, follow their dreams, encouraged them to travel the world and "do what God wanted them to do".... but it would seem that once they were 18 (ish) and started actually DOING JUST THAT, she freaked out because they didn't "need" her and they wanted to spread their wings and experience LIFE for themselves. Weird right? What horrible "kids". When they didn't all coming running back to the nest and want her advice on where to live and who to marry, that drove things deeper. From what I can gather they were all spreading their wings and becoming adults (all in VERY different ways I might add) and in the process they were discovering that their Mom had some unhealthy behaviors and patterns. All the while at home the adoption, living on the Island, and the marriage crisis all started happening. The "big kids" had to navigate their way in and around the family during a truly chaotic time. From what I know they all supported the adoption and LOVED the adopted siblings. The few that told me about their experiences with Jacob (the brother) said that he was a funny kid(i only met him a couple times and he seemed immature, but normal to me) who obviously had "issues" but that they all kind of expected it being that he was fresh from AFRICA! They were all pretty PISSED when they found out he was sexually abusive to Sarah and Rachel (as I understand it, that started when they were in the orphanage) and were sad to see him go, but felt that it was best for everyone if he had a different family situation. One of the older girls told me that she was absolutely SHOCKED and wanted to scream at the way Laurel treated both Jacob and Rachel from the beginning. Once Jacob was gone, Rachel got the brunt of Laurel's "cold shoulder and un-loving eye-rolls and dramatic sighs" (exact quote from a big sister). I do know that NONE of the "big kids" thought that Rachel should be sent away and all of them blamed "Mama" for Rachel's sadness/sadness/acting out. They were pretty PISSED about that whole situation and fear that it's only a matter of time before Sarah is kicked to the curb. The whole Island situation was bizarre from the beginning and i don't have a full grasp on how they ended up there, Jim was a pastor, no real house to live in... the whole thing seemed pretty messed up. Then the "marriage crisis" happened...right at the same time that 3 of the "big kids" were engaged and about to get married. Talk about rocking your world! From what they told me, they didn't know how to handle the fact that there was infidelity and they were all about to get married "til death do us part" and they all thought that Jim and Laurel had a pretty solid marriage prior to that. Then basically the shit hit the fan... Each "big kid" has their own reason for their being issues between them and their parents, but basically through the marriage crisis, the after math and the fact that each of the new spouses brought some perspective they each began to realize how messed up their parents were (not just in marriage). Sometime right around Cassie's wedding there was some "family meeting" that I've heard been called "the intervention" and apparently the "big kids" confronted their parents about some pretty heavy stuff. Guess how much "Mama" liked that??? :shock:

I heard that they begged Jim and Laurel to go to counseling not only for their marriage but for their personal crap and Laurel's response was less than positive.

I guess from that point on it's been pretty horrible. LONG stints of not-talking. Blame being thrown both ways. I know for a fact that more than 3 of the "big kids" have gone to professional counseling because of the crap they grew up believing to be "normal" actions from their parents and those 3 really have a good grasp on reality and real life. I know that 1 of them has tried many times to "make things right", but it always back fires and makes it worse. I know when Cassie had her little boy they didn't even call to say congratulations or even send a gift! Who does that to their own daughter? i don't care what shit has gone down, at least call and have an awkward "congrats" conversation! It's their grandson for goodness sake...don't get me started on the Post where she makes it all about her when Jeremiah and his wife found out the gender, so she wasn't saying "it's a boy!".... GAG ME!!!!!!! :pull-hair:

Ok I'll check back later. Kids waking from naps.

[Cheetah]

Thanks for the insider info, Alfred :-). Welcome to FJ.

[unholy_moses]

Sometime right around Cassie's wedding there was some "family meeting" that I've heard been called "the intervention" and apparently the "big kids" confronted their parents about some pretty heavy stuff. Guess how much "Mama" liked that??? :shock:

I heard that they begged Jim and Laurel to go to counseling not only for their marriage but for their personal crap and Laurel's response was less than positive.

Damn! I forgot all about "the intervention!" I just remember one of the kids coming over to my place afterwards and talking about how needed the whole thing was and how their mom didn't really give two shits. It makes it really funny that later on she blogs about how she hopes that the kids and their "daughters and sons-in-love" (which is a term i HATE) can become friends with her and Jimbo.

I didn't know there was actual infidelity though! :pink-shock: Was there actual "P in another V" type of action going on, or was it more of an emotional infidelity...not that either's pleasant to go through.

[Alfred_Wayne]

Welcome, Alfred! How is Batman, btw? ;)

In her comments Laurel said she wouldn't be reading any more of the hateful posts from hateful women like us, but obviously she couldn't stick to that resolution. (I wouldn't be able to either, frankly, even if I sobbed through every post I'd read them all.)

Have any of the "big kids" ever said anything about how the blog makes them feel, with all the oversharing? Was the marriage crisis a real thing or Mama just being super pissed at Papa?

Batman is as SEXY as ever! ;)

Oh i don't blame her (nor am i surprised) for coming back for more. Oh. My. No. It would be inconsistent with her victim mentality to NOT come back.

How does the blog make the big kids feel? hmmmm This is not a hard question to answer; How would YOU feel if your mom was a chronic over-sharer who has stooped as low as to bash you publicly and write such cringe worthy things about your family for the public to see???? It's safe to say that they all pretty much wish it would GO AWAY! I've talked to 1 of them since it's been "private" and they said "finally!" but they also said it's just another way for her to refuse to look in the mirror and realize that she is causing all the problems. She's not real good at self-evaluation. Now she can select not only who comments but who reads... and we all know those who have been chosen will toot her horn and make her feel justified in her actions.

The marriage crisis was a real thing (see above) but the way she has made it go on and on and on via the blog is just another one of her tactics to remain the victim (and hero?) of her own life. Her and "papa" are seriously co-dependent on each other. They've been together so long without seeking help for any of their crap (i mean really, we ALL have crap that needs to be dealt with) that their "mud puddle" is always fresh for wallowing in and they need each other to exist the way they do! I would rather be a single mom than be married to someone who lets me act the way Jim lets her act! Grow a pair and get your wife help! As for him, he seems to be one of her puppets in her game she calls life and has been so manipulated by her that he believes she really is the victim. (these are my thoughts and observations based on watching them interact and from what i know via the "big kids") :pull-hair: :pull-hair: :pull-hair:

end vent. gah. I think this forum might be just what I needed to get some things off my chest after reading the blog for so long and doing this :angry-banghead: all the time! Not to mention that I don't feel like I can always say what I want to say to some of the "big kids".

[Alfred_Wayne]

Damn! I forgot all about "the intervention!" I just remember one of the kids coming over to my place afterwards and talking about how needed the whole thing was and how their mom didn't really give two shits. It makes it really funny that later on she blogs about how she hopes that the kids and their "daughters and sons-in-love" (which is a term i HATE) can become friends with her and Jimbo.

I didn't know there was actual infidelity though! :pink-shock: Was there actual "P in another V" type of action going on, or was it more of an emotional infidelity...not that either's pleasant to go through.

Ha! You heard first hand right away about "the intervention"! Whoa, I would have loved (or hated) to be a fly on the wall for that one! As far as I know the daughters and son in law wish they could have "normal" relationships with Jimbo (hahaha) and Laurel but there is so much "judgy-judgy" attitudes from Laurel towards them that it repels them from even wanting to stay at the house when they visit!

As far as i know it was an "emotional affair" ... but there's been some debate about if it was physical or not in the gossip mill that I've listened to ;) Either way to think your parents had a good marriage and to respect your Dad as much as I know they (the big kids) did and then to have that blow up in your face?! That's pretty crappy for anyone, Fundie or not!

[Iovershare]

Do the kids think the blog will go public again?

[unholy_moses]

Do the kids think the blog will go public again?

I think one of us needs to send her an email asking for access:

"Dearest Laurel,

I cannot presume to understand the depth of pain felt as these wicked, lazy, ungodly women seek to destroy you from all sides. This must be Satan's doing - the evil one is trying to destroy your ministry! I urge you to make your blog public again. Know that no matter what these heathenly witches say, you have The Lord Your God Jehovah Jirah Hallelujah on your side!!!!!!! Praise The Lord!!!! But if you can't find it in God's timing to publicize your blog, please grant me access at the very least. You know my heart and my struggles as a mother of many, with a few troubled add-ons.

Blessings and prayers,

Mary-Margaret, mother of 12"

**edited because I kan't spel on my fone

[fundiefun]

So she basically hates all of her children biological and adopted nobody is free from her line of fire.

[spinsterwv]

Thank you so much for coming to clarify things!

How is the lasagne?

How are the pies?

Does Mama actually DO any homeschooling? She never talks about it.

What is the deal with the trips? Why so many and why is Papa so rarely along? Maybe he wouldn't have to work so hard if they spent more time at home.

What about the money? She always talks about being poor, then she takes another trip!

[bionicmlle]

Do the "big kids" follow this thread on FJ?

[GawkingToo]

Laurel's been quiet for awhile; I hope she's okay. I had assumed she always knew about FJ but chose to keep blogging anyway. If she didn't actually know about it, then I can see how this thread could have come as quiet a shock and would've been painful.

And, to clarify, I'm not a troll. (Or at least that's not my intent.) I've certainly made critical posts of my own. I'm just honestly wondering about her wellbeing at the moment. I hope she is just using this time to regroup and scrub the blog. I hope the silence isn't due to serious mental health issues or self-harm or anything like that.

Again, I know I'm probably reading too much into things, but I'm a worrier by nature. For all that I disagree with Laurel, I do hope that she's okay.

Laurel, if you're reading this-- If any of this stuff has you feeling low in a scary way, please seek help. There's no shame (and, if it helps, you can tell yourself it's a victory against the rest of us to thrive and do fine in spite of everything we've posted so far).

[HomegirlRuby]

:whistle: :lol:

[bionicmlle]

So... I'm getting a bit worried about Laurel. It's so unlike her to just disappear. I hope she's getting her shit together and not just stirring the family pot.

[Cheetah]

So... I'm getting a bit worried about Laurel. It's so unlike her to just disappear. I hope she's getting her shit together and not just stirring the family pot.

Do we know that she's not updating the blog now that it's private?

Since Unholy Moses and Alfred both seem to know some of the kids, they'd probably know if something was happening.

[bionicmlle]

I just did some looking on the big kids sites (they really do seem like wonderful people!) and Cassie says she has two boys?? I had no idea,I thought it was just the one.

[DarkAnts]

:whistle: :lol:

Only a messed up person would be happy that they have caused a person so much pain.

Please Mods apply the ban hammer.

[nelliebelle1197]

Only a messed up person would be happy that they have caused a person so much pain.

Please Mods apply the ban hammer.

Seriously. What a terrible person.

[bionicmlle]

Seriously. What a terrible person.

I thought she was on a Journey?