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Duggar birth order: who is most likely to rebel?


YPestis

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I was wondering if people considered birth order as a determining factor in who is likely to rebel in the Duggar household? I'm torn myself.

 

On one hand, it makes sense that the oldest Duggar children, especially the 4 oldest daughters, would most likely rebel. They had to suffer through the lean times, crammed into a tiny house with more and more kids. The older girls do the bulk of cooking and cleaning and caring for the younger ones. Why would any of them want to get married and repeat the process? They've done their share of being mommy without ever getting a childhood. This theory would also imply that the younger children, especially the younger boys, will be most likely to follow their parents in the lifestyle. Their memories consist of living in a large, comfortable home, and caring a lighter share of chores, plus they had their needs met through their "sister moms". In other words, they had a real childhood.

 

Then again, the oldest kids are the most indoctrinated. There's the idea that older children tend to be the more responsible ones, setting the example for younger sibling. Stereotypically, younger siblings are given more leeway and so tend to slack or rebel more often. So then the youngest Duggars may turn away from being quiverful because their they were raised with less expectations and indoctrination. Besides, by the time the 10th kid rolled around, Michell and Jim-Bob were probably phoning it in with the ATI stuff.....

 

Then there's the theory that getting used to the wealth that the TV show brings, none of the Duggar kids, especially not the middle and younger ones (Joy on down) want to go back to poverty. Josh and Anna might enjoy having extra money and maybe think stopping at 5 kids isn't so bad. The older girls may feel traveling and having nice clothes is pretty sweet. The rest may feel having a large home and getting cool stuff is how they'd like to live from here on out. It's doubtful any of the Duggar kids will be able to replicate the type of set up their parents have. How much more Duggar programming can America get? After the show ends, each Duggar child will be forced to seek their own fortunes out. It's doubtful they'll be able to afford such a large home (debt-free, no less) and raise up a dozen children in the same level of comfort, not if they stay in the quiverful lifestyle.

 

So I'm left unsure who will most likely rebel in the Duggar household. Any thoughts? Competing theories?

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Well. I don't think you can tell by any theory as such but it probably comes down to personality. Jana and Joy comes to mind as they don't seem as happy, as, for example Jill/Jinger/Jessa.

I think Josh enjoys his patriarchal role too much to totally leave.

I don't think John David cares either way to tell the truth, I'm sure he could simply settle down with another QF girl and be reasonably happy.

I don't know about the howlers, but I think Josiah will leave.

The lost girls will probably leave because I don't think their parents will have enough strength in the future to keep them compliant, especially Hannie who I hope, hope, hope will get to keep her fiery spirit.

Although now a sad thought occured to me, perhaps Jenny and Jordyn will be the perfect QF-wives as they are used to being forgotten and quiet in the background. Maybe they are so starved for attention they will happily marry a QF man in the future. :|

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Well. I don't think you can tell by any theory as such but it probably comes down to personality. Jana and Joy comes to mind as they don't seem as happy, as, for example Jill/Jinger/Jessa.

I think Josh enjoys his patriarchal role too much to totally leave.

I don't think John David cares either way to tell the truth, I'm sure he could simply settle down with another QF girl and be reasonably happy.

I don't know about the howlers, but I think Josiah will leave.

The lost girls will probably leave because I don't think their parents will have enough strength in the future to keep them compliant, especially Hannie who I hope, hope, hope will get to keep her fiery spirit.

Although now a sad thought occured to me, perhaps Jenny and Jordyn will be the perfect QF-wives as they are used to being forgotten and quiet in the background. Maybe they are so starved for attention they will happily marry a QF man in the future. :|

I think Jenny and Jordyn have the greatest chance of not being married off to a QF man. We're already seeing fundie royalty not marrying off daughters - give it 15 years or so, and the QF movement will be even less sustainable as the few who have managed to start a second generation of quivers have to find a way for the 3rd generation to make it work. Once more fundies realize stay-at-home adult children is a reality, more of them will be able to slip unnoticed. I would love for Josiah to be able to break free - he out of all the kids seems to be the one who just doesn't fit into the J-child mould.

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I don't think anyone will rebel anytime soon. I think Jimbob will step in before anyone leaves like the Keller's kids. I can see JimBob sending Josiah to a B&M college or finding Joshiah a wife at 20 like Josh. I always wondered why when Josh was asked a few years ago why he thought Josiah would be the next to marry. Josiah was like 14 at the time. Maybe Josh knew that Josiah was rebelious and JimBob was going to marry him off like Josh(I feel like Josh was married off fast because he needed some lovin').

I think a few will be fundie lite like Joy, Josiah,Jinger, Hannie, and Jason. In 10-15 years if a few of the kids go off to B&M christain colleges or have 3-5 kids, JimBob will look good and the child will be happy.

I just do not see anyone of them turning into total rebels. JimBob will offer them money, some sort of secuirty from the big bad world, or instill fear that stops them.

I think Josh will have the biggest family. I think they will have at least a dozen kids. I can't see any of the Duggar girls having as many kids as Anna.

I think Joy will have the least kids.

The difference is this is not a normal large family. My husband came from 23 and no sibling has alot of kids. My MIL loved kids and was so happy about grandkids, but it was not a lifestyle/cult/religion like the Duggars. I think there is alot of fear to rebel with the Duggars, a fear of not seeing your siblings, a fear of the "bad world" that has been driven into your head since you were in a crib. The only child that does not seem super close to their siblings IMO is Joy so maybe she has a chance to leave.

In 20 years the quiverful/ati/gothard group is going to be so intermarried. We will see these 50 or so families all marrying each other. Wallers, kellers, Bates, Duggars, Paines etc all marrting each other. I live in a neighborhood that I consder on of the few old style LDS strict 1980's mindsets (I almost say Fundie LDS) and the families want to keep up the old standards and the kids all all inter-married. My daughter and her BFF were the only 2 kids not related in someway in 1st grade.

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I agree about Josiah leaving. Maybe Hannie or Jackson will run to the hills as well. Hard to say for the older girls. The world has been watching them for so long. I wonder if that's pressure on them to do the right thing.

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I wish we could fast forward the next few years and find out NOW.

I know! And i am DYING for a tell-all book!

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As far as I understand it, the idea behind the birth order theory (that younger siblings are more rebellious and older siblings more conservative) is about carving out a niche in the family environment (although the reality is a lot more complicated). The younger siblings get more attention by rebelling; the older siblings supposedly long to "conserve" the good old days (when they were only children). That kind of goes all to hell when there are 19 of you, the early days were terrible (Michelle's 3-way rice for dinner anyone?) and your parents don't really like any of you anyway. So basing hypotheses on birth order isn't likely to get you very far.

The theme that seems to come up often with people who do "rebel" is that they just couldn't fit into the pre-defined roles of the religion/cult. This puts me in mind more of Joy and Josiah (of the older kids) than, say, Jana or Jinger. I think Jana is unhappy, but not so much with the kinder/kuche/kirche-esque role, as, perhaps, the restrictions and aimlessessness of her current life. If she married someone she was actually suited to, I could see the couple drifting away from fundiedom, but not so much with the outright rebelling (maybe like Anna's one sister). Jinger seems free-spirited to me, and while she's okay with the lifestyle now (there are a lot of perks at the moment), I can imagine her leaving if she were pushed to marry someone she didn't care for, or if post-tlc the family reverts to more hardcore fundiedom. WHEREAS, Joy is not a girly-girl and Josiah is not a manly-man, which means neither of them fit the roles assigned to them. They both seem aware of this, and look bored/miserable/irritated more often than they look wistful/melancholy (like Jana).

I know little about the howlers/lost girls (although right now Hannie seems to be Joy-like in nature), but I am seriously worried about Jordyn. One hesitates to Internet-diagnose, but it's not much of a stretch to imagine she's heading towards some kind of attachment disorder. I shouldn't look at a supposedly loved little girl in a supposedly wonderful household and immediately think "she looks just like little Cosette". Whether that leads her to rebel or to throw herself at the first fundy man who so much as smiles at her has yet to be seen.

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I think it will be Josiah and Joy, and I think that Josiah will wait until Joy turns 18, so that they can leave together. I see them leaving religion completely. I think that the lost girls will leave religion , also.

I think that most of the Duggars will become fundie lite or evangelicals. I can't see the rest sticking with it like their parents. I see the girls insisting on some form of birth control (even if it is just NFP), because they have already raised a huge family. I think that they will all have televisions in their homes, possibly wear pants (I can't see JD or Joe being married to skirts only fundies, they just seem more normal and laid back than that), and live relativity normal lives.

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I always thought Josiah, Joy, Jed, and Jer, would be the ones to leave. They are the "middle" kids and probably have the worst memories-growing up poor then seeing all the howlers and lost girls pop out one by one. Josiah and Joy seem the most unhappy and Jed and Jer would probably leave together as they are close. Jason may leave too. Remember the orchestra pit accident.

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I think that the older girls have a decent life, compared to if they were married to a fundie man they dont know well and having a million kids of their own, and will put up with staying single and looking after their siblings because they have more money, trips to other countries and look more modern than other fundies...but if the show and all its perks ends, I can see them rebelling at having to go back to matching frumpers and poverty. I think it would take a lot for Jill to leave, as she seems to want to please her parents and seems happy and fitted to the fundie lifestyle. Jana seems depressed as she is, I think if things got worse she would be even more unhappy and more motivated to get out of there. Jessa and Jinger dont seem to be as maternal and show signs of not wanting to live like that sometimes, I think they know theyve got it way better than other fundie girls, and are content to stay for that reason, but I cant see them happily returning to the life they grew up in.

Joy and Josiah fit in the least, as she is a bit of a tomboy and he seems more sensitive than fundie guys are supposed to be, so I think theyre going to rebel at some point.

I dont know the Howlers very well, they seem to be one huge horde of loud small people.

I can see the littlest girls growing up to hate their parents for the neglect, and will probably have quite a sad life ahead of them because of the issues theyre probably going to have growing up, whether they leave or not I guess they will end up with depression and attatchment issues, maybe marrying the first abusive douchebag who looks their way because theyre starved of love...I think Hannie has the best chances because of her personality and how she has a friend.

Josie seems to be Michelles favourite, as shes the youngest and will probably be the last child, so I can see her being spoiled a bit by Michelle, and from my experience, rules are more relaxed with the youngest children than the oldest, and she wont have to care for her siblings. I can see her being a bit like Priscilla, wasnt she a preemie too, and Josie does appear to have some delays. Hope she marries someone better than David though.

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I'm rooting for Jana. She always seems a bit on the shy and sad side to me. In that way she reminds me of my mother, who, when she finally said "suck the fystem" and did things her way, ended up quite happy and satisfied with her life. I wish Jana could experience the freedom that my mom found when she made her own way in the world.

I'm rooting for Joy(anna? the tomboy) also. It is so sad to see her spirit being defeated and her conforming to the brainwashing of Boob and Mullet. I have my fingers crossed that she will wake up one day and flip them the bird as she sashays out the door.

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The middle kids would seem to have the most reason to rebel - not as much freedom and lack of responsibility as the youngest batch - and without all the material / attention/ autonomy of the oldest ones.

Not that the oldest ones have "autonomy" the way most people would look at it - but they are all in control of their own little family and get to be "in charge", which has an appeal to a lot of oldest kids.

The little ones can do whatever the hell they want, will have no little buddies to watch over and have the big house and material goods from the start.

It will be interesting to see how the dynamics play out once the show is over.

Joy and Josiah definitely seem not suited to that lifestyle.

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Josh-Move towards a slightly lighter version of fundiedom but definately never going mainstream or turning on his parents.

Jana-Fundie lite if she marries the right guy.

John-David-Will most likely stay fundie but probably would be happy being fundie lite.

Jill-Happily fundie

Jessa-Happily fundie assuming she can snag a guy that will support her in her current lifestyle.

Jinger-Depends on who she marries since she will also want a nice lifestyle.

Joseph-Like JD would probably be happy being fundie-lite but would never go public about anything.

Josiah-High possibility for leaving the fundie lifestyle assuming Jim-Bob doesn't marry him off soon and cause him to be stuck in the lifestyle for his children's well being because Jim-Bob will help support them as long as Josiah keeps in line. Highly likely to write the tell all book.

Joy-Anna-Highly likely to leave the lifestyle. She has no interest in a fundie life even a fundie lite lifestyle. Will only stick with it if she gets married and pregnant very soon after her 18th birthday. Highly likely to write the tell all book.

Lost Boys-Most will probably go fundie-lite and some may leave the lifestyle entirely. Not all of them can sell used cars and will have to look elsewhere to support growing families and will limit family size because they don't want their children to grow up in poverty.

Jackson-Possible tell all book writer. He is the first one to have his entire life filmed by TLC.

Johannah-Highly likely to rebel. She is such a bright little girl with lots of energy.

Jennifer & Jordyn-Both are so forgotten I could see them taking off and nobody noticing. They won't have the duties helping to raise younger siblings so they may look at future lives of marrying and producing twenty some kids as more desirable because they don't know what it really means for them.

Josie-I fear the miracle baby may get stuck being Daddy and Mama's long term caregiver. This may result in her bolting or being like Sarah Maxwell and being 30 living at home filling her days with not much of anything.

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Josie will be forced to live at home till Boob and Mullet die then have to move in with a sibling.

Yep totally, even if she ends up without learning difficulties she will still be the house mouse who never leaves.

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I think Josh & Anna might already be moving towards fundie-lite & will end up going to a normal baptist church. I think this will mostly be because Josh has had a taste of a more normal lifestyle & he seems to be loving it & also because Anna is probably the smartest of the bunch. Josh seems like a cocky d*ck, but I think he treats her quite well, she could have done so much worse.

I think Jill will stay single, she is too bossy for most fundie guys.

The other older girls will marry in quick succession & all use birth control.

JD will marry Michael & they will be quite happy together. He will probably be the most successful of the family because he inherited JBs work ethic. Josiah won't be far behind, esp if he gets to study accounting at a proper college.

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All I can say is how very fucking sad all of this is. The Duggar children have never known or experienced what life can be when given freedom and choices.

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I super hope Josiah rebels, but it actually wouldn't surprise me if he becomes one of the more fundie of the kids. I think Jana, Joy, Johannah and maybe Jinger are most likely to get out.

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people have been predicting some great rebellion of one or more of the kids for years...at this point i'll believe it when i see it :lol: ...goes for courtship also!

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people have been predicting some great rebellion of one or more of the kids for years...at this point i'll believe it when i see it :lol: ...goes for courtship also!

I don't think there will ever be a "great rebellion". As the years go on and the Dim One and his bride age, they are going to gradually to lose their hold on the kids. There's just too many of them. The show will quietly end, people will forget about them, and by the time Jackson and Hannie are 18 and 19, a majority of the kids will be moving on to more normal lives, leaving Gothardism in the dust. Their lack of education is likely to limit their prospects, but the show has clearly broadened their overall horizons and hopefully a few of the brighter ones (Josiah, the twins, Justin, Hannie, maybe a lost girl or two) will be able to catch up.

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My take on the Duggar kids:

1. Josh loves his wife and kids, but I get the feeling he wishes he could have lived it up a little before he settled down. In other words, he now realizes what he has been missing. At the same time, he likes the attention he gets from being famous and he'll use it in any setting where the name Duggar can get his foot in the door, whether it's a political rally, a church pulpit, or a free meal at Denny's. His actual religious convictions seem more skewed toward fundie lite than full-on Gothardism, but he'll go the latter route if it will get his face on TV or help him make a few extra bucks.

2. Jana is, I think, more religious than her parents. She's the one who stuck with the ankle-length skirts when her sisters were barely covering their knees. If the Duggars were a Catholic family, Jana would be in the convent by now. Instead, she has opted for "Journey to the Heart." She'll probably marry some guy she meets there and stay with Gothard.

3. John-David will go off quietly and do whatever he wants. He might even be doing that now. Who would notice?

4. Jill seems happy where she is. She may end up a permanent SAHD, or she might end up getting married and having a dozen kids. (She'd have to have gotten started already to beat Michelle's record.) Whatever happens to her, I don't see her jumping off the fundie train.

5. Jessa is pretty and she knows it. She doesn't seem to enjoy buddy duty, and I don't see her birthing a large quiver. I don't think she's sufficiently ambitious or unhappy to rebel, but that could change if the right guy comes along. Fundie lite with money, perhaps someone in the Christian film or music business.

6. Jinger is another one I can see going fundie lite. She and Jessa will probably end up living close to one another.

7. Joseph. Same as John-David.

8. Josiah does not seem happy at all. I agree with others who predict he'll be the first one to completelt remove himself from the Gothard lifestyle. He'll want to go to a real college and get a real education.

9. Joy is another unhappy camper. It makes me sad to watch her and Josiah, remembering how mischevious and full of life those kids were just a few short years ago. Joy seems to enjoy spending time with Amy much more so than any of her sisters, so Amy might be the one to help her escape.

The younger boys... It's hard to say, because we see very little of them as individuals and none of them has gone through puberty yet. Jer & Jed both come off as intelligent kids who have outgrown much of their howler monkey behavior. They might want to go to college. I can't see either of them growing up to be like Jim Bob or Josh, but they aren't quiet mechanical types like John-David and Joseph. Jason is still howlerish, but he might outgrow that in another year or two. James remains very much a howler-- he might grow up to have a taste for thrills and adventure, which could lead to his departure from fundieland. Justin is more responsible; we've seen him remembering to feed Jordyn breakfast when nobody else could be bothered. He may end up resenting his parents for not giving him and his siblings enough attention, or he may evolve into a male version of Jill and spend his adult life taking care of everybody. Jackson worries me a little. This kid is eight or nine years old now, but he still looks, talks, and acts like he's four. Did he ever learn to read? Did anybody notice/care?

The little girls... Johannah is too smart and too driven to be held back. By the time she's a teenager, her parents will have no energy left. Her escape will be easier than that of her older siblings. She'll probably take Jackson with her. Jennifer and Jordyn have been so neglected that they still haven't learned to speak their own language fluently. They might end up staying in fundieland primarily because they have nowhere else to go. If they do rebel, I can see it taking the form of them being so starved for attention that they run off with the first (bad) guys who notice they exist. The same could happen to Josie, but her status as the youngest and special-est child might be enough to keep her within the fold.

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I think Jer might be one to quietly slip away. I recently re-watched the episode where he got a new chess set for his birthday and it struck me how calm and shy and intelligent he seemed. I kept imagining how awful it must be for him to be constantly lumped in with the pack of howlers, and how long was he able to keep his chess set nice before one of his more rambunctious sibs broke/lost a piece and ruined it.

JD seems similar in temperament, but I think since he's an older one, and didn't have quite as many sibs during his childhood, it wasn't as bad for him. And now that he is older, he has freedom to do his own stuff and he doesn't have to be around the noise and madness all the time.

So for the introverts, definitely, I think the younger ones will be driven out by the sheer stress of having to grow up around such constant chaos and noise, with no respite or privacy. Maybe this is wishful thinking but it absolutely breaks my heart to think that a bright little kid like Jer will never make it to a real college.

As for the older girls, Jill is so smug I don't think she'd ever consider leaving. Jana seems depressed but resigned. I have hope for Jessa and Jinger because they still seem to have minds of their own- and they know what it was like back before TLC was funding the gravy train. Plus neither of them seems overfond of taking care of the kids. AND Jinger did say in the Davilla wedding episode that she would prefer to live in the city, so I think she's definitely attached to all the 'worldly' stuff they didn't have when she was little.

I agree with some of the above posts about Joy- she doesn't seem to be enjoying her life in the TTH- but I think Josiah has drunk the kool aid. I used to think he would be an escapee but after he had his growth spurt and got all teenager-y it seemed like he changed. He used to be more light-hearted and now he seems all serious. Maybe it was the whole Josie thing with Mullet in the hospital that caused it, but who knows. There's a lot of stuff behind the scenes that we don't see.

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Joy and Josiah, they seem totally uncomfortable in the family and less "kool-aid-y" than the rest, especially Joy just seems fed up with the whole thing, it could just be normal teen-behaviour but she doesn't seem attached to any of her parents or older siblings really.

I would love for Jessa and Jinger to get to a real college, they'd be the life of any party if they could get out of the fundie-mind-set. The two of them sharing a cute little place in a real city, they'd have so much fun!

As for the birth-order-theory, lots of other factors play into that besides the actual birth-order such as parents birth-order placement, gender, number of siblings, spacing between siblings, disabilities etc., exemplified by JD who exhibits typical lastborn/younger-brother traits, even if he is in fact oldre brother to many.

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