THIS is why fundies scare me

[jenny_islander]

Also, count me in as another mom who got up and made extra food because of this thread. I am sick as a dog right now, and I got up and made a fresh 3-pound Pullman loaf because the thought of serving my children rice with a little bit of chicken mush and some tired vegetables made me shudder. I hope there was at least a lot of rice.

Yet again: If she doesn't really have all that meat in the freezer, she could have made soup to make what she did have more filling. And if she does have all that meat in the freezer, she is being an ass--not to mention financially stupid--by buying white meat of chicken and making her kids eat a dab of bad casserole each. And if she thinks white meat of chicken is that bad nutritionally, why is she buying it at all? Is her usual store in a bean-free zone?

To the person who asked about the millstone verse, here's Jesus Himself on the subject: "It is impossible but that offences will come, but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone be hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

That's Luke 17:1-2 in the KJV. If you aren't wedded to the KJV, here's the NRSV: "Occasions for stumbling are bound to come, but woe to anyone by whom they come! It would be better for you if a millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea than for you to cause one of these little ones to stumble."

Being offended, being caused to stumble . . . being driven out of Christianity altogether because your parents taught you that God wants you to go hungry . . . I have lost count of the number of Pagans, Wiccans, agnostics, atheists, antitheists, etc., who explicitly trace their adult beliefs to an upbringing among the righteous and pure fundamentalist Christians of America.

Feed your kids until they tell you they are done eating!

[Lychee]

Mmmmmmmmm venison (drool) bambi would not last long in my freezer!

Seriously though I don't think you need to eat meat at every meal and depending on what they have eaten he rest of the day I suppose the lack of protein could be theoretically ok but 4 mushrooms for 11 people?! There is something seriously wrong with that.

[wild little fox]

I've talked with some conservative Christian/possibly fundamentalist-lite moms who lock the fridge because their tight budgets force them to plan exactly what will be served even at snack time, and if the kids bypass (say) the oranges and carrots and go for the cheese that was earmarked for tomorrow's dinner, then tomorrow's dinner is going to be ruined. The thing is, there is actually food in the fridge in the first place!

And if chicken isn't that good, why didn't the kids get venison or beef instead? Since the freezer is apparently packed to the brim with meat?

This!

You know, if it were a single meal before payday or something along those lines it would be one thing. We probably have all had tight times! But she is also talking about splitting a small bag of vegetables in half to feed her family stir fry. That is eight ounce of frozen vegetables for 11 people. Then there is the water loss while cooking. So, it makes me wonder about her wanting to truly feed her family properly. I also worry about the baby she is carrying. WTF? They need to stop that!

Parents needing to hide/secure food is one thing. I've known mothers in real life who have locked food up. One was because she was a control freak and wanted to spend her money how she saw fit. The other didn't want the children to eat all of something she needed for meals, but ALWAYS supplied her kids with food. My parents hid food from us, but didn't lock it up.

[FairyPrincessK]

Even if their meals are otherwise nutrient and protein dense, the trend seems to be a long term deficiency in calories. Half an onion, eight mushrooms, a white sauce and some rice (because let's face it, the chicken content is negligible) would feed one adult properly. And she used it to feed how many people? Obviously, in Kelly's eyes, starving your children is much better than asking teh ebil gubmint for assistance, or limiting your family size.

[apple1]

I'm a mother (to now adult daughters) and now a grandmother to a little girl. I would give up anything in the world that I own, and work as many jobs as necessary, use any existing safety net (they do exist, like WIC), do whatever to make sure that my kids didn't go hungry. Period.

IMO Any mother that wouldn't do the same falls under that millstone verse that Jenny Islander posted.

(BTW My mother, passed away several years now, believed that godliness = hospitality = make sure there is plenty of food for everyone, kids, guests, the people next door, whomever. She had been born during the depression and as a kid didn't always have enough. She tried to make sure that nobody else around her had to do that).

[Dixiebelle]

We've been picking on her chicken recipe but this one has even less in it:

*Deer roast stew

One night I made deer roast in the crock pot (with potatoes), served with left over pinto beans and green beans and cornbread.

I only had a fist-sized portion of meat left over and some broth and potatoes, but the stew I made the next day was delish once I added that leftover rice in the fridge, with a few stalks of celery and some garden-canned tomatoes. It fed us all with some still left.

That leftover rice was 1 cup, as she said i the chicken recipe. 1 cup of rice is essentially nothing.

My husband has a pretty big fist, but really, that's maybe 2 actual servings of meat? Realistically more like 2? I am all about stretching stuff by making stew, and I agree it sounds "delish", but filling?? That must have been a heck of a lot of potatoes to end up with leftovers. That, or it tasted like crap and no one ate any. Or most of them have the flu...

[FairyPrincessK]

I agree, that sounds like very little--although the potatoes, pinto beans and cornbread would fill it out on the grounds of carbohydrates and protein. In this case I'm more worried about the lack of fresh fruits and vegetables--a few stalks of celery and some tomatoes--sounds like one jar to me.

[lilith]

How is store bought chicken not nutritious? Does she think non store bought chicken is made of different things?

I try to buy free range chicken for ethical reasons, but its no more nutritious than the cheap factory bred chicken.

[Effie]

What is she hinting at here? Does she mean suffering is somehow godly/good?

But study the Scriptures! See that even in Job’s life–that human that endured more suffering than anyone else–even then Satan only had the power which God gave him. And while it was not pleasant for Job, he didn’t have the benefit of seeing his suffering as we do. How marvelous to learn about the character of God and know that we can rest, for His will is perfect and clear for us, even when He allows suffering for a time.- January 21, 2013 9:43 pm

While I'm at it, what does it actually mean to break your child? It sounds awful to me, but maybe I'm misunderstanding something:

We discipline in a spirit of brokenness (we try, at least), not “because you made Mommy angryâ€, but because “God says ‘children obey your parents in the Lord’, and when you disobey I must discipline youâ€. Don’t be afraid, that is biblical. (generationcedar.com/main/2008/05/children-discipline-biblical-answers.html)

Once the spanking is over, pick him up and restore a right relationship. This is very important. If he is angry, he may need to be given a little time. If his anger does not subside, the session is not complete. He must come to the point of brokenness, and desiring forgiveness.Close in prayer, thanking God for the forgiveness He has given.

– Teaching Children to Obey (Kelly Crawford)

Btw. it seems like Kendull is not the only one who would train her children a whole day:

The whole ordeal ended with our exodus to the parking deck, my husband having no idea of what just happened, and me adamantly protesting all the way to the car, “you are all getting spankings when we get home, and Aaron, we have GOT TO DO SOMETHING to prevent this from happening again!†So today, look out! I have re-read my own child-training book !!! and am resolved to train the day away!†(generationcedar.com/main/2007/11/crazy-lady-with-seven-children.html#comments)

Also, is she seriously saying she is just educating her children some minutes a day, while she lets the three older children (11+) learn by themselves?!

“For the little ones, it’s pretty spontaneous. I encourage them to play a lot, and as they show interest in learning the sounds of letters I sit down with them just a few minutes a day and go over that.â€

“The three oldest have a math and English curriculum that they work on independently with my help if needed. We use different curriculum from year to year, but right now everyone is using Rod and Staff. They also do copy work, usually from the Bible.†(generationcedar.com/main/2010/12/how-our-family-homeschools.htmlgenerationcedar.com/main/2012/09/re-thinking-education-are-school-subjects-necessary.html)

[2xx1xy1JD]

BTW My mother, passed away several years now, believed that godliness = hospitality = make sure there is plenty of food for everyone, kids, guests, the people next door, whomever. She had been born during the depression and as a kid didn't always have enough. She tried to make sure that nobody else around her had to do that.

That's what I was taught as well. To me, this goes beyond even child cruelty and enters the realm of blasphemy as well.

I can understand restricting certain items or areas of the fridge/pantry, but if you have to lock up food, you're doing something wrong.

[jenny_islander]

@Effie: Actually very young children only need a few minutes a day of academic subjects. I homeschool myself, and at ages 4, 5, or even 6, academics are done with in under an hour--that includes the 3 Rs, storytime, and a few minutes of Spanish. All lessons are kept short to suit a child's attention span.

But I don't think that's what Kelly means. And I really don't think a preteen kid can self-teach.

[Koala]

http://www.generationcedar.com/main/2008/05/children-discipline-biblical-answers.html

When I do have to spank them, I do it with sorrow, and they know it. If it is done in anger, it is wrong–it becomes OUR sin. Afterwards, they are so free, they feel so secure, and their face wears the relief. Our relationship is restored and they are HAPPY.

I can't tell you how disturbing I find this. :(

[Sobeknofret]

Also, is she seriously saying she is just educating her children some minutes a day, while she lets the three older children (11+) learn by themselves?!

For the most part, little kids only need a few minutes of time every day, so yeah she's right on there. As for the older kids, sounds like she's trying to teach self-direction. Older kids need to learn not just the academic lessons, but how to manage time wisely and how to direct their own studies. My 9-year old spends about three to 3.5 hours a day on school work, including reading/language arts, writing, science, handwriting, math, and social studies, longer if we're doing a special project. He goes to a science lab class for homeschoolers every week at the local science museum as well. I'm there to direct and help, and at this age frequently get called in to help explain and teach a specific lesson. By the time he's the age of Kelly's older kids, he'll need less direction than he does now.

[sewingmom2]

I weighed two frozen boneless chicken breasts and came up with 22 ounces, a little less than 1.5 pounds. Many of you don't seem to realize that you can make a substantial meal with that amount of meat (not saying Kelly's was adequate or nutritious!). My ideas:

Chicken fried rice

Chicken pot pie topped with biscuits

15-bean chicken chili

Chicken mac and cheese

Chicken bierrocks (grind the chicken and treat it as hamburger or ground turkey)

Chicken/bean enchiladas

I would find the meat to be slim but adequate, but all the recipes require veggies or cheese or beans to stretch the meat, depending on the recipe. I took the chicken mac and cheese (made up for two meals for a family of 7) to a sick family yesterday. I used 5 chicken breasts. It was plenty "meaty" and, with an added vegetable and a fruit, made an adequate meal.

[Effie]

@Effie: Actually very young children only need a few minutes a day of academic subjects. I homeschool myself, and at ages 4, 5, or even 6, academics are done with in under an hour--that includes the 3 Rs, storytime, and a few minutes of Spanish. All lessons are kept short to suit a child's attention span.

But I don't think that's what Kelly means. And I really don't think a preteen kid can self-teach.

Yes, of course. But it seems like the younger kids were in ages up to 10-something in this case? That's why I reacted. I'm not really sure how she teaches the middle children? She didn't really mention that. It was either the oldest children or the youngest.

We don't go to school here before we are 7 (nowadays preparation-class when you are 6), and I don't think it's essential to teach kids academic subjects earlier than that. That's not what I meant. I just don't understand what happens with the middle children.

The oldest child seems to know very little, so I don't think the idea to let her children self-teach has been very successful in this case. The lack of knowledge Bria has, has been shocking to me. It's like she has been living behind a stone for the main parts of her life.

[Clementine]

http://www.generationcedar.com/main/2008/05/children-discipline-biblical-answers.html

I can't tell you how disturbing I find this. :(

That's how a lot of BDSM / S/M / domestic discipline couples describe their relationship.

The big difference is that they live like that because they enjoy it, Hearing a mother describe spanking her kids like that makes her sound like a perv to me.

[2xx1xy1JD]

That's how a lot of BDSM / S/M / domestic discipline couples describe their relationship.

The big difference is that they live like that because they enjoy it, Hearing a mother describe spanking her kids like that makes her sound like a perv to me.

I wonder how many of those couples are trying, even subconsciously, to recreate that experience - especially if the post-spanking hugs they got were the times that the parent was the most relaxed and loving with them?

Here's a tip: if you google a discipline technique and a bunch of sex sites pop up - look for another method. A quick check of google reveals no similar sites for time-outs, positive role modelling, positive reinforcement, withdrawing attention from negative behavior, redirection or other positive parenting techniques.

[B5SnowDog]

What is she hinting at here? Does she mean suffering is somehow godly/good?

She may be referring to the concept of redemptive suffering.

[hapamama]

This!

You know, if it were a single meal before payday or something along those lines it would be one thing. We probably have all had tight times! But she is also talking about splitting a small bag of vegetables in half to feed her family stir fry. That is eight ounce of frozen vegetables for 11 people. Then there is the water loss while cooking. So, it makes me wonder about her wanting to truly feed her family properly. I also worry about the baby she is carrying. WTF? They need to stop that!

Parents needing to hide/secure food is one thing. I've known mothers in real life who have locked food up. One was because she was a control freak and wanted to spend her money how she saw fit. The other didn't want the children to eat all of something she needed for meals, but ALWAYS supplied her kids with food. My parents hid food from us, but didn't lock it up.

I use a 1 lb bag of stir fry veggies for my family, and that's getting to the point where it's not enough... and I'm only feeding 7. Seeing that she's stingy with meat too, that really makes me sad for her family. That's not a meal of stir fry, that's rice with a little dab of something for flavor.

[RachelB]

I weighed two frozen boneless chicken breasts and came up with 22 ounces, a little less than 1.5 pounds. Many of you don't seem to realize that you can make a substantial meal with that amount of meat (not saying Kelly's was adequate or nutritious!). My ideas:

Chicken fried rice

Chicken pot pie topped with biscuits

15-bean chicken chili

Chicken mac and cheese

Chicken bierrocks (grind the chicken and treat it as hamburger or ground turkey)

Chicken/bean enchiladas

I would find the meat to be slim but adequate, but all the recipes require veggies or cheese or beans to stretch the meat, depending on the recipe. I took the chicken mac and cheese (made up for two meals for a family of 7) to a sick family yesterday. I used 5 chicken breasts. It was plenty "meaty" and, with an added vegetable and a fruit, made an adequate meal.

My objection isn't the protein but the calories. When I was a kid, my father's meatloaf was probably close to half onion / oatmeal / bread crumbs. It was tasty and filling, and restaurant meatloaf tasted weird to me on the occasions I tried it (because comparatively, it was overly meaty and lacking in spice). I don't see enough "stretcher" in the meal she described, though, to fill up 11 people. She has commented about her daughters "eating like birds." To me, that means she knows her kids aren't getting enough food and she's being defensive.

[Effie]

That's how a lot of BDSM / S/M / domestic discipline couples describe their relationship.

The big difference is that they live like that because they enjoy it, Hearing a mother describe spanking her kids like that makes her sound like a perv to me.

Horrible. You notice a lot of disturbing things if you write "spanking" in the search box at her blog.

Her other methods disturb me as well, for example that a child who complains of too much work, will be punished with an even bigger work-load. Why is complaining necessarily a bad thing? I don't get that. That's just one way for a child to express his/her voice. (generationcedar.com/main/2009/05/early-child-training.html/comment-page-1#comment-11233)

[slickcat79]

What is she hinting at here? Does she mean suffering is somehow godly/good?

I've never understood why people appreciate the story of Job. God put Job through absolute hell on earth; took away his livelihood, his home, his health, killed his family etc. And for what? To win a freaking bet with satan. God sounds like an abusive parent to me, and "His perfect will" is pretty fucked up.

I weighed two frozen boneless chicken breasts and came up with 22 ounces, a little less than 1.5 pounds. Many of you don't seem to realize that you can make a substantial meal with that amount of meat (not saying Kelly's was adequate or nutritious!). My ideas:

Chicken fried rice

Chicken pot pie topped with biscuits

15-bean chicken chili

Chicken mac and cheese

Chicken bierrocks (grind the chicken and treat it as hamburger or ground turkey)

Chicken/bean enchiladas

I would find the meat to be slim but adequate, but all the recipes require veggies or cheese or beans to stretch the meat, depending on the recipe. I took the chicken mac and cheese (made up for two meals for a family of 7) to a sick family yesterday. I used 5 chicken breasts. It was plenty "meaty" and, with an added vegetable and a fruit, made an adequate meal.

I think several people have also posted ideas of what they would do with that amount of meat. But most people are not feeding 11 people a dinner. Even the example you gave with the chicken mac includes more meat for fewer people, and more substantial side dishes.

[GiggleOfGirls]

Cosleep, nurse on demand night and day, no bottles, no pacifiers, no solids. Essentially not going more than 2 hours during the day and five at night without nursing.

I believe it's actually four hours at night, at most, but yes, that's it exactly. It only works until you start giving solids, but as long as all those things are happening, it's ~98% effective, which still leaves a 2% failure rate. Most people nurse less than that and would be at a significantly higher risk of getting pregnant earlier on. Although, I have known a couple women who couldn't get pregnant at all until they completely weaned their toddlers. As in, even nursing one time a day to put their 2yo to sleep prevented them from ovulating.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I believe it's actually four hours at night, at most, but yes, that's it exactly. It only works until you start giving solids, but as long as all those things are happening, it's ~98% effective, which still leaves a 2% failure rate. Most people nurse less than that and would be at a significantly higher risk of getting pregnant earlier on. Although, I have known a couple women who couldn't get pregnant at all until they completely weaned their toddlers. As in, even nursing one time a day to put their 2yo to sleep prevented them from ovulating.

I like to say that it worked for me....until it didn't.

Yes, my period was AWOL for longer than 6 months after the births of each of my kids, due to the breastfeeding, and yes, my youngest 2 are 21 months apart even though I conceived at the first possible opportunity. However, I conceived twice while breastfeeding, so it doesn't work forever. As my OB told me, it works on a population level - meaning that long-term breastfeeding on demand will reduce the overall fertility rate - but it's not so reliable on an individual level. You also get folks like my friend, who wondered why she only got her back once before it went AWOL again. She went on to have baby #2 15 months after baby #1.

[AddieBelle]

Does anyone know her last name and location? I really want to call cps.

I haven't mentioned anything on here yet but we currently have a foster child who was seriously under fed. I have seen first hand the problems that insufficient nutrition will cause a child and I can't read this and not do anything about it. I also just realized she lives in my state, I'm a mandated reporter. I've been trying to locate the info I need on the blig but for some reason I phone wont let me pull her blog up at all.