Control and sex in the Ger Orthodox Jewish Chassidish Sect

[shedemei]

There's an article making the rounds: http://bshch.blogspot.com/2012/11/blog-post_6897.html. I don't read Hebrew, but from reading around other places this has been posted it's another expose on the sexual restrictions of the Ger sect (hereafter just "Ger") and the control that their Kommandants have on married couples. In this case the wife was unable to accept this lifestyle and the couple was divorced.

Ger places emphasis on increasing spirituality through repression of the yetzer hara—the evil inclination. Sex itself is not evil, but it does stem from the yetzer hara as do other types of pleasure. As a whole, Judaism is overwhelmingly sex-positive within the context of marriage and imposes few restrictions, but a small number of groups such as Ger have this view. Conquering the yetzer hara does also involve less-destructive tendencies which are generally seen as positive, such as being less materialistic. In the realm of sex, however, Ger imposes a number of chumras (stringencies) that are seen by other Orthodox groups as extreme if not outright heresy. One Rebbe even published a scathing criticism of Ger's sexual chumrot.

The term for the "internal rules" of a Chassidic sect are referred to as "takanot." They're not just about sex. For example, in Ger there's also a takana that weddings are to be kept small to avoid financial hardship on the parents and children, in response to the increasingly lavish weddings in other parts of the ultra-orthodox world. This is an example of one that's generally positive. The sexual takanot were imposed by a former rebbe (supreme leader and spiritual mentor) referred to as the "Beit Yisroel." There's a difference of opinion on whether or not they were intended for only an elite group or for all Gerrers, but regardless they have become widely adopted.

Not all Gerrers uphold all of these takanot, chumrot, and related behaviors, but most do at least some of them. Some are common across Chassidish society and I've marked those. Here's marital life in Ger:

* (Common in Chassidic groups) Strict separation between men and women, both before and after marriage. Young people are exposed as little as possible to people of the opposite sex outside of the immediate family. Marriages are arranged by the parents, who go through a shadchan (matchmaker) or use their own connections to find possible spouses for their children, researching them extensively to find mutually compatible children, then coming to an agreement between two families. The children will meet once or twice in one of the families' homes for a brief period of time to ensure that they have no objections to each other then become engaged. They do not see each other before the wedding, but the men usually call the women's father befores Shabbat to wish him "good Shabbos".

* (Common in Chassidic groups) Children are not educated at all about sex or sexuality at all, other than being told not to masturbate and not to interact with the opposite sex. In some circles children are not taught those portions of Torah that concern sexual relations, or are given a superficial and white-washed treatment of it. Children are told about sex "when it's time", with that time being right before the wedding, by their martial preparation teachers. (I don't have a better English translation). Men are usually taught about "the act" in the last lesson, often the day before the wedding. Some are revolted by it. Women are sent to Gerrer kallah teachers as well, but some are not and they are shocked when they learn after the wedding what their lives will be like.

* (Common to Orthodoxy) After the wedding, the couple is encouraged/mandated to have sex that night to consummate the wedding. The wife is considered niddah after the act and the couple must separate immediately, not touching for twelve days until the wife goes to the mikvah. After this is when the real Ger chumrot kick in.

* Minimal interaction between husband and wife. They are to talk only about necessities. Gerrer men do not walk in the street with their wives; the wives walk behind them. Some keep an extreme chumra to not refer to their wife by name.

* Absolutely no affection—physical or verbal—outside of the bedroom.

* The woman wears a nightgown during sex. This is considered heresy by other Orthodox groups as Torah mandates that both partners must be naked.

* Foreplay may be non-existent. Some couples may touch as little as possible during the act, with the man supporting himself with his hands on the mattress.

* (Somewhat common in Chassidism) Sex only in complete darkness and only at night (perhaps only after midnight, as well).

* Every couple is assigned a Kommandant to whom the man turns for advice and who exercises extreme control over the couple, essentially dictating how they interact with each other and when they can have sex. Some are more strict than others. The Kommandants rarely speak to the wives, who usually turn to their kallah (marriage preparation) teachers with questions. The Kommandant's word, however, is law.

* Sex only once a month, after the wife goes to the mikvah. If the wife requires more frequent relations or there is a problem conceiving, they Kommandant may permit them one Friday night each month in addition to mikvah night when the wife is not niddah.

* After the birth of a child, the yoledet period (similar to niddah) is extended to six months or even a year. During this time period the couple does not touch and interacts with each other only minimally. There's no emotional interaction, either. In Orthodoxy the practice is to go to the mikvah seven days after the bleeding stops but no sooner than two weeks after birth.

I get the impression that Gerrer men see women as at least somewhat revolting, being conditioned into this from a young age. I find the level to which couples submit to another person's dictation of their marital lives to be extremely disturbing and sad.

[ILoveJellybeans]

That sounds so horribly unromantic. Does love not exist in their world? Even fundies seem to love their partners, and spend time together as a couple, but these couples are hardly able to talk to eachother. It also totally takes the fun out of sex.

What a miserable life.

[SisiL78]

On one hand the great thing about Judaism is that we have no "Pope" figure and people have freedom to exercise their own interpretations and "flavors" of Judaism. In fact, for such a small group of people (Jews overall) I would venture to say that there is far more variety in practice than in much larger religions.

The extreme isolation that the Ultra Extreme Israeli Orthodox have placed themselves in combined with government funding that permits them to mostly study and work never or little has produced some really horrific sects. It seems that the more time they have to just sit around and think the more they bastardize Jewish texts and the more they vilify the outside world (the same world that supports them financially).

And since the men are not properly educated as children they grow up to be filled with nothing but memorization of Jewish texts, texts that they are not smart enough to interpret or think critically about for themselves. They were never encouraged to think or learn on their own. So they fall prey to some charismatic and strong willed individual. It sounds to me that the men in this group are pretty weak spirited and are being controlled by a few strong personalities (The google translation version was really hard to read). And it sounds like the charismatic leaders of this particular group especially hate women. The repression and misery must be pretty bad on all sides, including the men's side. This weak minded obedience is not what Judaism is about.

Not so long ago the idea of an entire community of men "learning" all the time into adulthood would have been totally laughed at. Only the best of the best and the smartest would have gotten to do that. And that's how it should be. Now, because of social services and welfare from the Israeli government, every boy is forced into this "learning" and no one is encouraged to find their best path in life. They leave the defense, farming, industry, everything to the secular Jews. Its just ludicrous.

The good news, I hope, is that these groups are somewhat self limiting. The children grow up hating to live in poverty and see the Israeli military as their way out. They tend to have a very hard time working together with secular people in the military unfortunately due to their learned distrust of others as well as their very lacking education. Plus, these guys send their wives out to work because they are shamed into continuing to learn even when they can't support their own children. So its the women folk that find jobs, and possibly realize that they can leave and live better with one less child (their husband).

[Witsec7]

I read on I'mamother and over time I've found that even without a supreme religious leader, communities defer to their local rebbes for many decisions and definitions of legalism for each community. There does seem to be conflict between the interpretations of rebbes within specific sects but different communities. I enjoy reading about the Ger and Satmars and can find few documentaries on the Ger. If someone could point the way I would appreciate it.

[shedemei]

On one hand the great thing about Judaism is that we have no "Pope" figure and people have freedom to exercise their own interpretations and "flavors" of Judaism. In fact, for such a small group of people (Jews overall) I would venture to say that there is far more variety in practice than in much larger religions.

I disagree. There is not one Pope of Judaism, but within a chassidic group the Rebbe is the Pope and his word is taken even more seriously as law than by the Catholics of their Pope. Chabad is a great example of this.

The extreme isolation that the Ultra Extreme Israeli Orthodox have placed themselves in combined with government funding that permits them to mostly study and work never or little has produced some really horrific sects. It seems that the more time they have to just sit around and think the more they bastardize Jewish texts and the more they vilify the outside world (the same world that supports them financially).

I agree, but want to add that this is common outside of Israel as well in the Yeshivish and Chabad chareidi communities. In the US Yeshivish women are brought up with this mentality and being a "working boy" is usually considered to make the boy a less desirable mate and Jew. It's actually less common with chassidim outside of Israel; the men usually study Torah for a few years then go to work while their wives stay home with the children.

In Israel there's an additional problem in that the chareidim do not see the state as legitimate and reject going to the army. The only way they can avoid the draft is to study in yeshiva. Going to the army is hugely shaming, so there's no alternative.

And since the men are not properly educated as children they grow up to be filled with nothing but memorization of Jewish texts, texts that they are not smart enough to interpret or think critically about for themselves. They were never encouraged to think or learn on their own.

I agree, and I find it incredibly sad that these men never get to develop their potential or have a life outside of kollel. I find it sad that "learning" in the chareidi community means "studying Torah," exclusively.

[lilah]

It sounds like a cult of personality similar to the fundamentalist mormons who follow Warren Jeffs In the book Unorthodox Deborah Feldman mentions a schism in the Satmar community between following two different rabbis who were the sons of the most popular Rabbi

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Ah, Ger. Yes, if you're looking for the "what - SRSLY???" most out there stripe of extremeness in Orthodox Judaism (particularly where it relates to women), you can't go wrong with Ger. Even other fairly extreme groups of Chassidim find the Ger to be out there. It's quite the google search.

I find it sad that "learning" in the chareidi community means "studying Torah," exclusively.

Indeed.

[NurseNell]

They must have very few children, given how regulated their sex lives are. :?

[NurseNell]

It doesn't look like the poor bride can see anything through her veil.

[Witsec7]

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-e ... n-1.412153

This is the second part of a three part series on the Gur. It's difficult to critically read this article without making comparisons to Maxhell.

[EyeQueue]

This is the second part of a three part series on the Gur. It's difficult to critically read this article without making comparisons to Maxhell.

How disturbing. :( These poor women. And men. To be so disgusted by sex that you vomit or pass out when it's described to you? What a life, and what a way to completely pervert one major aspect of being human.

[2xx1xy1JD]

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/for-members-of-israel-s-ultra-orthodox-gur-sect-sex-is-a-sin-1.412153

This is the second part of a three part series on the Gur. It's difficult to critically read this article without making comparisons to Maxhell.

Thanks for the Haaretz link. I noticed this talked about an article that appeared the week before:

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-e ... n-1.410811

I had heard a few rumors about Gur restrictions before, but since they are so secretive and Gur women generally don't post online (even on imamother), I couldn't verify it.

I wonder if they are too isolated to realize that their restrictions sound more like some parts of Christianity than Judaism?

[Witsec7]

Thanks for the Haaretz link. I noticed this talked about an article that appeared the week before:

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-e ... n-1.410811

I had heard a few rumors about Gur restrictions before, but since they are so secretive and Gur women generally don't post online (even on imamother), I couldn't verify it.

I wonder if they are too isolated to realize that their restrictions sound more like some parts of Christianity than Judaism?

I did see many commonalities between extreme xtianity and the Gur. In one blog I was reading last night (I wish I had the link), it's common that Gur are completely clueless as to these marital concerns until immediately before the wedding. Some of the commentary by Gur apologists (no way to know if they are Gur or sympathizers), mention that the proscriptions on contact and communications between spouses lightens up after 10 years of marriage, or when couples reach their forties.

[Jana814]

I'm Jewish but NOT!! Orthodox, this can be true in many families, they also do arranged marriage w/ in some case the couples barely know each other. Although unlike courtship this kind of marriage has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years. They don't believe in birth control and many of alot of kids.

[Witsec7]

I'm Jewish but NOT!! Orthodox, this can be true in many families, they also do arranged marriage w/ in some case the couples barely know each other. Although unlike courtship this kind of marriage has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years. They don't believe in birth control and many of alot of kids.

Arranged marriages among quite a few Orthodox sects sets the stage for a developing love between partners. Gur arranged marriage has little to do with love or growing to love one's partner. Gur girls growing up have zero clues about sex in marriage, niddah yes, but it's up to the kallah to deliver the bottom line about intercourse and even the role of the commandant in their marriage. When we compare them to QF families, where children grow up with some knowledge of reproduction and even in the case of the infamous Duggars see physical contact between their parents outside of the bedroom. Other Orthodox sects may limit physical contact between spouses when in public, but hand holding and contact between married adults within their homes is acceptable. With the Gur, all information is held with in the community and likely the males, since females carry such negative baggage. The are among the most fundamental of the UO and among the most secretive.

[SisiL78]

I disagree. There is not one Pope of Judaism, but within a chassidic group the Rebbe is the Pope and his word is taken even more seriously as law than by the Catholics of their Pope. Chabad is a great example of this.

What I meant is that there is no single body over Judaism, like there is in Catholicism. There are many little heads of movements here and there... The Rebbe is taken very seriously, but he's also been dead for a while and the Chabad movement is basically run by committee at this point (with people taking cues from his writings and speeches). I personally like Chabad and they are definitely the friendly and accepting face of Ultra Orthodoxy. But, there are other ultra Orthodox groups that are far more sinister in their application and really seem to hold down the Jewish people as a whole. I would say that there have been personalities even within the Reform and Conservative movements who have (for some reason) seemed to want to destroy Judaism from within.

I should retract an earlier statement about the Ultras going down in population... they are rising according to some reports. But, I suspect they are hard to track to some degree.... they might have large numbers of kids but can those kids be counted until they are grown up enough to make the choice to stay/leave?

Anyhoo, I sort of regret not taking the invite to go to Mea Sharim and celebrate post-Shabbos dinner with some families there. They had invited anyone from a group I was with to come and sing etc.... Some of the guys went and said it was interesting, but us women stayed at the hotel. I regret simply not having taken the opportunity to experience this ultra fundies in their own environment.

[Arete]

SisiL78, Catholicism is to Christianity what Ger is to Judaism. It's a sect, albeit a much larger sect than Ger. The Pope and Vatican have no authority in the rest of Christianity. The Ger view of sexuality is very.......Machinean. That was an offshoot of the 1st and second century Christian movement that declared that all things of the body were evil, and only the spiritual component of existence was good. I'm not sure how the Ger came to practically the same conclusion regarding sexuality, but it would be interesting to know how they evolved their view. It just seems completely opposite of what I know about Judaism's view of sexuality in marriage. :shock:

The term "commandent" for the Ger marriage counselors gives it a very martial, "just following orders" feel. It's all so cold.

[ilovetchotchkes]

It doesn't look like the poor bride can see anything through her veil.

Hell, she looks like she can hardly move in all those layers! (and this is coming from a reenactor who wears 8 layers of underwear on a regular basis in the summer)

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Hell, she looks like she can hardly move in all those layers! (and this is coming from a reenactor who wears 8 layers of underwear on a regular basis in the summer)

I'm amazed people manage to wear that sort of clothes (just the regular people even!!! In wool suits!!!) in the SUMMER, in ISRAEL, no less. Particularly when it comes to the Ger and the "you must keep your coat on at all times" thing.

Though I can just imagine if somehow seersucker caught on...

[SisiL78]

Hell, she looks like she can hardly move in all those layers! (and this is coming from a reenactor who wears 8 layers of underwear on a regular basis in the summer)

How many people were there?! I wonder if they fed everyone too....

THe veils are pretty common in the Ultra Orthodox. I've been to a few Lubavitch weddings and they wear a piece of the Rebbe's wife's tablecloth (I assume there is some sort of complicated rental process) as a veil in addition to a real veil/headpiece etc... I just don't get it, its like you're not really participating in your own wedding ceremony. Personally I would have an attack of clausterphobia if my face was covered up by it. Its one of the little things that turned me off from becoming Orthodox myself... And the thing is that it seems so backwards yet I've seen brides who are highly educated and work in fields like medicine have no issue with it (or at least they didn't express one)....

What is with big dresses? I know its not a new thing, but my cousin's tomboyish wife barely got down the aisle and dancing at her reception was like watching someone wrapped it duct tape try to dance (dress was tight to the knees and then had an humungous poof from the knees to the ankles... with a train). As someone who needs a wedding dress I'm starting to wonder if all sanity is lost when a woman goes bridal dress shopping (and that dress designers all secretly hate women).

ETA: The men's clothing must be brutal in summer. I will never forget sharing a bus with a few of the Ultra Orthos in Israel in August. The smell of sweat was overpowering (their clothes were soaking). It was disgusting. I think that women have it easier, although wigs in the summer cannot possibly be pleasant. Seersucker (for men) will never catch on because they are all convicted (fundie speak!) to dress like Poles from the 16th century or something crazy like that.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

ETA: The men's clothing must be brutal in summer. I will never forget sharing a bus with a few of the Ultra Orthos in Israel in August. The smell of sweat was overpowering (their clothes were soaking). It was disgusting. I think that women have it easier, although wigs in the summer cannot possibly be pleasant. Seersucker (for men) will never catch on because they are all convicted (fundie speak!) to dress like Poles from the 16th century or something crazy like that.

Yeah. That and the weird deification of Yiddish (considering it holier than either modern Hebrew or say, modern yeshivish or regular ol' English, even though Yiddish was a adopted-the-local-language-and added-stuff vernacular just as those are) is one of those "but why?" things.

I remember as a kid wearing school uniforms in the days of ONE uniform only (no choices of pants/skirts or jacket or not) when the entire country had a "we change seasons day!" and everyone in any kind of uniform from schoolkids on up to the police went from summer to winter or vice versa on a given calendar day. Seemed like every year after we went to the winter uniform in calendar fall, there would be "residual heat" and some day of crazy heat'n'humidity, and there we were in our serge blazers and thick wool jumpers, and it was MISERABLE, that was plenty bad enough thank you!!