Massacre Occurred Because We ‘Removed God From Our Schools’

[meda]

Also in the Americas and Africa, consideration the drug cartels/pirates that rule pretty much everything south of the US and Europe. Genocide, in whatever form, makes it a totally new ballgame that fundies just don't understand and refuse to study.

I recently took a class based on the pretext that there is a bias against Hispanic immigrants b/c they're scummy leeches, but they're here, not Canada, who are much more selective, but DO NOT have fences, etc. along a border that is, what, twice the size of US/Mexico? Disconnect much?

Caveat: Although I couldn't voice dissent of any kind in class (too large), or a mid-term and get marked down because I saw things without the lens of a Che! tee-shirt, I tried (as did many others) to get through to the professors that their way wasn't the highway. I was very disappointed with the class; it was Gothardesque. Anyone in their storyline who didn't agree, even moderates, was labeled as subversive. Daring to express opinions and not challenge their (husband and wife co-profs) POV got you a B. I learned the parroting lesson too late to raise my grade. Not like they would have considered it. For people who want to raise awareness, etc. which is why I took the class, they were the most INFLEXIBLE in terms of feedback and grading, ever.

Not going to spout ANYONE'S party line the way they want. I took it for my minor, Education. We got ONE lecture about the state of Hispanic education. Woohoo. I learned all that in REAL classes.

Yes, you can be too liberally biased, even for me. I wrote to the Dean of the Education Dept. and requested this class be taken off the considerations for Education. Sadly, as my grad school option at that school disappeared, as did many classes for the Minor (not offered as a Major), that class is still listed as Education.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that the fact that there are more immigrants from central/south America in the U.S. than there are in Canada is somehow prof that there is no discrimination in the US against those immigrants?

[AnnieC 305]

AnnieC305, I'm not going to quote all that but you really don't need to convince me. I agree with all of that. I'm an evangelical turned agnostic. I've left it behind. But I just know that most Christians, across all denominations including the mainline protestant and Catholics do not believe that this happened because "we removed God from schools". Sure, there is lots of that nonsense on the religious right, but I've been on fb all day and haven't seen any of that nonsense from my Lutheran or Presbyterian friends.

No, of course not. Because that would be evil.

Edited to add: After something like this happens people always ask "why?", right? Why? And we can get into the smaller, practical reasons for why, he was mentally ill, he had access to weapons, he was bullied or abused, and that is all right and accurate. But I'm looking at the greater picture.

Why?

The people who say "it's because we took God out of the schools" are pointing to an interesting fact, the more secular our nation has become as a whole the more these mass shootings have been happening even though we actually have been regulating gun sales more and more tightly. (Maybe not tightly enough, but I'll get to that.) And yet at the same time more and more people who are extremely religious have become batshit crazy about it. Isn't that why this board is here?

Ask yourself this, what is the one response to this sort of thing that is not shot down by the extremely religious quarter of the country?

Prayer.

Praise God.

Put your faith in Him, he will make it right. He will solve all the problems.

But then that same quarter are the ones who shoot down all the practical responses that we come up with to try to solve the problem. Universal health care with mental health access, tighter gun regulation, anti-bullying campaigns, anti-child abuse laws, you name it they stop it. All except prayer. But why? Why would otherwise rational people fight every possible solution to something so horrific and only allow and encourage the one thing that is proven to do nothing? Prayer hasn't stopped one yet.

Maybe they're right. Maybe God is telling them "Encourage this, stop that."

Maybe this omnipotent, omniscient being is allowing this to happen and preventing all our human measures to stop it because he wants the attention. Because a mass killing is the one sure way to get us all down on our knees.

As evil as it sounds it fits the logic.

Maybe instead of all running to the nearest church to pray we should look at what Norway did after their shooting and come up with a response that validates a secular point-of-view, that everyone has value and we all need to come together to solve the problems that led up to this and make the world better. Something like that. And if people want to pray they can pray at home.

And yes, my response to the Huckabees of the world when they say "God allowed it because we took him out of schools/the public square" is "I don't respond to blackmail or terrorists". And when my Christian friends say "all we can do is pray" I tell them to get up off their knees, unfold their hands and get to work solving the problems, because at best prayer does nothing at at worst it might just encourage it to happen again.

[LostSamurai]

I blame the patriarchy. I blame a society that provides young white males with the sense of entitlement that the entire world belongs to them and when they feel that the world doesn't welcome them 100%, whether because they are socially maladept, mentally ill, or just plain creepy, they act out in publically violent ways. In this most recent, most horrible tragedy, it sounds as if mom had a bit of paranoia about her, considering she owned all of the guns her son used and a few more. Seems like the apple didn't fall too far from the tree.

As much as I hate to say it and don't want to sound bad, I"m starting to agree.

Seriously, what is it with the young white guys recently? First there was Holmes, then that kid who shot up the mall in Oregon and now this kid.

[Sprocket]

AnnieC305, I'm not going to quote all that but you really don't need to convince me. I agree with all of that. I'm an evangelical turned agnostic. I've left it behind. But I just know that most Christians, across all denominations including the mainline protestant and Catholics do not believe that this happened because "we removed God from schools". Sure, there is lots of that nonsense on the religious right, but I've been on fb all day and haven't seen any of that nonsense from my Lutheran or Presbyterian friends.

If you're interested in your blood pressure going up to stroke level, you're more than welcome to come hang out on my facebook newsfeed! That's all that's there. But then again, I do live in the asshole of the Bible Belt.

[Sprocket]

No, of course not. Because that would be evil.

Edited to add: After something like this happens people always ask "why?", right? Why? And we can get into the smaller, practical reasons for why, he was mentally ill, he had access to weapons, he was bullied or abused, and that is all right and accurate. But I'm looking at the greater picture.

Why?

The people who say "it's because we took God out of the schools" are pointing to an interesting fact, the more secular our nation has become as a whole the more these mass shootings have been happening even though we actually have been regulating gun sales more and more tightly. (Maybe not tightly enough, but I'll get to that.) And yet at the same time more and more people who are extremely religious have become batshit crazy about it. Isn't that why this board is here?

Ask yourself this, what is the one response to this sort of thing that is not shot down by the extremely religious quarter of the country?

Prayer.

Praise God.

Put your faith in Him, he will make it right. He will solve all the problems.

But then that same quarter are the ones who shoot down all the practical responses that we come up with to try to solve the problem. Universal health care with mental health access, tighter gun regulation, anti-bullying campaigns, anti-child abuse laws, you name it they stop it. All except prayer. But why? Why would otherwise rational people fight every possible solution to something so horrific and only allow and encourage the one thing that is proven to do nothing? Prayer hasn't stopped one yet.

Maybe they're right. Maybe God is telling them "Encourage this, stop that."

Maybe this omnipotent, omniscient being is allowing this to happen and preventing all our human measures to stop it because he wants the attention. Because a mass killing is the one sure way to get us all down on our knees.

As evil as it sounds it fits the logic.

Maybe instead of all running to the nearest church to pray we should look at what Norway did after their shooting and come up with a response that validates a secular point-of-view, that everyone has value and we all need to come together to solve the problems that led up to this and make the world better. Something like that. And if people want to pray they can pray at home.

And yes, my response to the Huckabees of the world when they say "God allowed it because we took him out of schools/the public square" is "I don't respond to blackmail or terrorists". And when my Christian friends say "all we can do is pray" I tell them to get up off their knees, unfold their hands and get to work solving the problems, because at best prayer does nothing at at worst it might just encourage it to happen again.

OMG, I like you. I really, really like you.

[Austin]

If you're interested in your blood pressure going up to stroke level, you're more than welcome to come hang out on my facebook newsfeed! That's all that's there. But then again, I do live in the asshole of the Bible Belt.

My condolences on that front, Sprocket. Not that it's much better here in the midwest.

[Sprocket]

My condolences on that front, Sprocket. Not that it's much better here in the midwest.

There is nothing I would like more than to shove a bible up the asses of every one of my inlaws. It's not out of the realm of possibilities for me to drive the four hours to do so tonight. :angry-cussingblack:

[Mama Mia]

I can't even stand to look at my facebook feed, the whole thing is worse than right before the election. Pro / Anti Gun battles, the whole "God in the schools" nonsense .... what about the hospital that just got shot up, or the mall in Portland ? Not to mention the murderer was an adult, not a student ...... ugghhh.

[Austin]

There is nothing I would like more than to shove a bible up the asses of every one of my inlaws. It's not out of the realm of possibilities for me to drive the four hours to do so tonight. :angry-cussingblack:

Make sure you videotape it. I gotta see it!

[Sprocket]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater

Whoever A. Lupin is, he's on a roll. Judy Dahlheimer needs a fucking clue.

[Sprocket]

Make sure you videotape it. I gotta see it!

It's a small town, I'd probably end up on the news. :dance:

[Sprocket]

Courtney Klugel We are living in the current day Sodom and Gomorrah, we see continually in the Bible when the people turn away from God( seeking his will, living justly, holy, and pure) and turn to human desires of debauchery, self righteousness, and idol worship, denying God... He shows up with wrath and judgment- but it is always " just". He is always fair, and it's his desire that the people turn back to him.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater

Stabby isn't even the word. So God sent that man to shoot innocent children. In that case, keep your god out -- at all costs. What kind of horrible god do these people believe in? It's "just" because God's angry? Fuck her.

[Witsec7]

It's a small town, I'd probably end up on the news. :dance:

Try and get this done before the NY, that way it can be included in the Best of FJ for 2012:lol:

[Sprocket]

Try and get this done before the NY, that way it can be included in the Best of FJ for 2012:lol:

:lol: (cause I really did laugh out loud)

[lilwriter85]

Atheism 411 on FB posted this pic.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm following the t-shirt debate. It's properly infuriating. God is never violent, prayer in schools made the whole world fucking Pleasantville, the church did not cover up child sex abuse...

[doggie]

Dear god Protect me from your followers Amen.

Dear god why are you a asshole? Amen

[JesusFightClub]

OMG, this is totally winding me up. "If only the teachers were all armed." "If only the principal was armed".

I know I've already said this but those are the words of someone who has never fired a gun. I have, and I've never fired a gun in anger, or having fear for my own life or fear for the lives for others clouding my judgement. I'm not a terrible aim but not a fantastic one either. It's also been a while since I aimed or fired a gun aside from in video games.

This is the perfect storm of bad firearms engagement. Fear, terror for others, lack of practice, lack of confidence, lack of understanding where on the human body to shoot and decisively, lack of aim. And that's going to happen for everyone who isn't a trained firearms professional, which let's face it, few teachers are. Why should they be?

People don't get it. They think life is like a video game and you pull out a gun and drop the baddie like that. No recoil, no aiming, no inconvenient bystanders, because the game automatically controls for that. Guess what? Life doesn't.

[SpeshulTaterTot]

I've been trying to keep myself from commenting on that stupid t-shirt making its rounds on FB, but I just got into a bit of an argument over it with a friend from the US. There is no prayer in most European schools. Yet these things don't happen here nearly as often as they do in the US. Why's that if it's all because students aren't allowed to pray in schools? And which God are we going to pray to, anyway? In my high school class in Germany, we had students of 6 different religions. I did go to a bilingual school, so I guess there was more diversity, but you'll have at least 3 different religions in most schools in Berlin. Catholic, Lutheran, Muslim. So which religion should we put back into the schools?

Ever since the shooting in CT, I've gotten so close to just filtering my friends from the rural US out of my feed.

[RosyDaisy]

God didn't cause this. So Huckabee and like minded folk can go to hell. They are doing nothing but hurting and disrespecting the families of dead children. There are solutions, but the right-wing simply doesn't want to hear it. Well guess what, they had better start listening before the next shooting.

[pomology]

God didn't cause this. So Huckabee and like minded folk can go to hell. They are doing nothing but hurting and disrespecting the families of dead children. There are solutions, but the right-wing simply doesn't want to hear it. Well guess what, they had better start listening before the next shooting.

And if he did, then I don't care if he is all-powerful and has the ability to torture for eternity, because I'm sure as fuck not praying to a God who let this happen because he's not getting his ego stroked enough.

[freejoytoo]

I understand why people turn to their faith in times like these, but if I were religious I'd be having a serious struggle right now. Stuff like this is why I can't believe in God.

[Peas n carrots]

I don't get the crowd who says that the teachers should have been armed. The folks are operating under the assumption that they would have th skills and mental toughness of a Navy Seal in a situation like this. The fact is, there aren't many Navy Seals or Army Rangers because there are few people out there with the disposition to begin with, nevertheless training.

I think if actually in this situation, these nuts would forget all about their gun. I think most would try to get their kids/loved ones out of harms way. They would have to be pretty steely for their first reaction to be "I'm getting out my weapon and taking this guy down."

I have a hard time believing in Oregon that amongst those 10k people at the mall that no one had a concealed weapon, whether legal or illegal, and i think that at the end of the day they were completely human and probably fled with their families.

[Mommy22alyns]

Fuck you, Mike Huckabee. The gunman wasn't a student so how would it matter if god was in the school or not. Go back to your Bible thumping agenda if you can't get involved in the real question: why we allow gun violence to continue (which of course you can't because we all know God put the Second Amendment in the 10 Commandments.)

This. I'll add to the "fuck him" parade too. What an asshole. Now is NOT the time or the place for your little agenda.

[Austin]

I wouldn't trust any of the people I know with a concealed carry permit with the judgment to pick out a piece of produce, let alone fire a gun in a chaotic situation.