Brooklyn Hasidic "therapist" convicted of child sexual abuse

[Buzzard]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/nyreg ... share&_r=0

This is a pretty big deal. Numerous women had accused this man of abusing them but recanted or refused to comply with prosecutors, presumably under community pressure. He was convicted of 59 counts, so I think we can say "bye bye."

Then, during the trial, four other men were charged with criminal contempt in the second degree for taking cellphone pictures of the victim, in violation of court rules. And although supporters of accused abusers often dominated the galleries at previous trials of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men, on many days at this trial, supporters of the accuser and advocates for abuse victims were in the majority.

This is some no joke shit and is similar to the gang cases that we have. I fear for this woman and her family.

But Pearl Engleman of Williamsburg, who became a victims’ advocate after her son said that he had been molested in the Satmar school system, said it would take more than this case to transform her community. Hundreds turned up for a fund-raiser in Mr. Weberman’s support this year, and even with a guilty verdict, she said, she does not expect many to change their minds.

“There are people who are still rooting for him,†she said. “They just can’t wrap their heads around a Jew sitting in jail for that much time.â€

As a Jew and a human being, the fact that they would support and expose additional children to his abuse instead of supporting the children disgusts me. They sent "troubled" children to him instead of a licensed therapist, and gave him carte blanche to abuse them. I'd love to indict whoever was in charge of that!

Edited to add - Congrats Charles Hynes (brooklyn DA) and your staff for standing up for whats right, even when its hard. I'm sure this was a seriously hard case and an emotional one. Thank you for taking the hard road.

[Arete]

This story was already posted yesterday on this thread viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14258

Charles Hynes spent years half assing action on Hasidic sex crimes based on the community's political clout. Not sure what changed, but good for everyone it finally did. He really lost it when some of the community thugs were taking pictures in court of the witness with their phones, and issued a public warning after the trial to the community "modesty squads".

[Buzzard]

This story was already posted yesterday on this thread viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14258

Charles Hynes spent years half assing action on Hasidic sex crimes based on the community's political clout. Not sure what changed, but good for everyone it finally did. He really lost it when some of the community thugs were taking pictures in court of the witness with their phones, and issued a public warning after the trial to the community "modesty squads".

I'm going to have to get the inside story on this one. The APA (Association of Prosecuting Attorneys) is pushing the case through the listserv. Rare that they'll touch a case that had shenanigans or delay.

http://apainc.org/

[Arete]

It's horrendous the witness intimidation. People come forward and lodge a complaint, then suddenly are unwilling to testify. The family gets threatened that no one will want their children for marriages, they threaten kicking children out of schools, and fathers losing their livelihoods. And the ones that come forward are the brave ones. They are usually labeled as having committed a great sin by talking against a fellow Jew to Gentile investigators.

[Buzzard]

I'll be interested to follow the cases for those that were charged with the intimidation. This is seriously like a gang trial where the witnesses are threatened/shamed/labeled in the community to keep their mouths shut. "Snitches get stitches."

[VooDooChild]

What the actual fuck.

That's all I can say. I was molested as a child and if somebody had tried to shame me like that, I'm sure I wouldn't be here today. How the hell can people lose their minds like this and have zero concern about the damage done and the further damage they are causing to HUMAN BEINGS with their intimidation tactics?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

This is the case where supporters of the accused (Weberman) put up posters in Yiddish all over Brooklyn shaming the then 16-year-old victim, isn't it?

Lots of coverage over at Failed Messiah right now.

[Buzzard]

This is the case where supporters of the accused (Weberman) put up posters in Yiddish all over Brooklyn shaming the then 16-year-old victim, isn't it?

Lots of coverage over at Failed Messiah right now.

Seriously? I cant believe that was permitted. I know NY is pretty wussy when it comes to enforcing bond provisions but thats WAY over the line!

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Seriously? I cant believe that was permitted. I know NY is pretty wussy when it comes to enforcing bond provisions but thats WAY over the line!

They were posters for a fundraiser for him. One old article from the NY Daily News is here: http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-05 ... -innocence

The main ones that had people up in arms were the ones showing the missile, it was all about how this girl and her accusations are like a missile that is going to strike the community and so she is the main problem.

[2xx1xy1JD]

The conviction is just a first step.

There really needs to be a comprehensive overhaul of how everything like this is handled in the community. It's like being caught in a time warp in some ways - many of those in the community are so insular that they never really heard about what was going on with groups like the Catholic Church, or had any awareness of what the rest of the world was doing to develop protocols when it comes to abuse prevention and reporting.

The Satmar community has a particularly strong persecution complex. At one point, that was based on some element of reality, because the community was almost entirely made up of Holocaust survivors, but at this point it's just an ingrained mindset in the community that outsiders can't be trusted and that everyone else is out to get them. With this case, many in the community started to believe that it was a witchhunt and that nobody from their community could get a fair trial.

What many don't seem to realize is that any community can have deviants, but the real shame of the community was in how they handled everything. Yes, everybody deserves a fair trial - but intimidating witnesses, dragging a young woman through the mud, loudly proclaiming that this guy is innocent and needs funds when you have no way of knowing that this is true, etc. go WAY beyond saying "let's see what comes up in the investigation and trial".

Scratch the surface, though, and you do see some in the community saying that there were problems with this guy before. I saw some imamother posters, one of whom I've "known" online for years and can verify is part of the Satmar community, mention women that they know personally who were harmed by him. I see this as an issue that will be much, much farther and affect the whole power structure.

For starters, if they want to deal with sexual abuse like anyone else is supposed to handle it, they will need to:

1. Teach kids some basics about saying no, having the right to refuse adults who want to do something to do, and telling them that they can get help from parents, doctors, teachers, etc.

2. Have a formal protocol and training so that teachers, principals, etc. instantly know that police and child protective services need to be called the moment an allegation is made.

3. Make it clear that doing such reports does not violate religious rules against informants.

4. Take steps once an allegation is made to protect the potential victims, not the perpetrator.

5. Support victims and respect their privacy.

6. Dump any victim-blaming BS, and realize that it is absolutely possible for someone who looks like a respected community member to be a molester, and for someone who is seen as a rebel to be a victim.

[Buzzard]

Whats the response now? That he was wrongfully convicted? What is the safety plan for the other children and will those that were in fear come forward to prosecute? Hopefully this blows the lid off of the case.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Whats the response now? That he was wrongfully convicted? What is the safety plan for the other children and will those that were in fear come forward to prosecute? Hopefully this blows the lid off of the case.

Plenty of the people who always thought he could do no wrong and surely he didn't do it STILL think the same, and are still defaming the girl, saying she shouldn't be believed because she's not religious and so she's just out to kill his reputation.

Happily, plenty of other people are arguing back, but yeah there's still a significant number of people (at least on the internet) who see this as "upstanding religious man" vs. "slutty rebellious teenager who abandoned religion" and are just refusing to listen to anything. And of course there are still those people who insist that nothing be reported to authorities of any sort before going to the rabbi first (though again, thankfully, plenty of people do argue with that).

I think this conviction is a big move though, at least the authorities are no longer buying it.

I think 2xx1xy1JD is pretty much right on with recommendations, too. I'd add to #1 that they need to be more forthright about basic body education also, there are still people who do not want their young teenaged children even knowing about "where babies come from" or about the details of their own bodies. #6 is likely to take some time, but definitely definitely needed (and not only in any specific communities either - the whole world could use a dose of that).

Something else too - plenty of people who are shaming the girl or doubting her are essentially saying that because she had a boyfriend and had sex with him, there's no way she could be molested anyway - it boils down to the same old same old misogynistic idea (most definitely NOT limited to religious communities either!!!) that once a woman "gives it up" there's nothing left of value there to take. Rageworthy.

[Buzzard]

A lot of states are changing their mandated reporter statutes to require religious leaders to report sexual abuse unless it comes in the form of a confession. If a mother brought a daughter in to speak to the Rabbi, atleast here in Georgia, he would be REQUIRED to report that to the authorities or face misdemeanor prosecution himself. Hopefully NY will do the same so that these communities are no longer a bubble. Of course, someone has to have the balls to prosecute them AND the fact that it wasnt reported has to be exposed...

[violeta]

A cult is a cult is a cult. The names and specific religion changes but the dynamics are always the same.

[YPestis]

A cult is a cult is a cult. The names and specific religion changes but the dynamics are always the same.

I think in the Hasidic cases, it's a bit different. They are more like the Amish than like Jim Jones. In these closed off societies, which I don't really consider "cults", they tend to avoid secular entanglements at all costs, but not in the way that cults operate. They discourage police involvement but do mete out justice within the community. This is a huge problem when secular laws clashes with religious ideas. When you have a society that operates based on medieval principles, be it ultra-Orthrodox Jewish communities, Old World Amish societies, or various Afghanistan villages, it results in what our modern sensibilities consider huge injustices. I blame the distrust with outsiders, the lack of trust of the proper authority and a lack of progress within their communities for this closed off thinking.

I have long heard of the lack of victim's rights in cases like this, including the case, years ago, of an Amish incest victim who had her entire community show up at the trial for the BROTHER. She was ostracized for reporting years of abuse after the bishops in her community could not get the brother to stop. The Amish placed shunning as the highest possible punishment and did that for her brother for weeks at a time, yet he refused to stop. In our modern society, we'd say he needs to be locked up and/or receive therapy. However, the Amish offered neither. Instead, the community turned on her when she reported to outside, secular authority. The Hasidic community behaves in similar fashion, intimidating those that go outside their circle. The same cohesion which makes these communities so close can also stifle. I'm glad that the victims' are finally seeing justice, and I hope this sends a message to other perpetrators that they can no longer hide behind their religion.

[2xx1xy1JD]

There is a concept in Jewish law that bans "informing" on a Jew to secular authorities - but that originated in a context where Jews had their own legal system, and where secular authorities were likely to be oppressive or even murderous. [Think of the story of Jesus and Pontius Pilate]

More recently in Europe, informing on your rivals to the Czar, or the Nazis, or the Soviets was a very real danger, and something that would cost people their lives.

So, there is a historical reason for Satmar to fear outsiders and the whole idea of "informing". The issue now is that the community is living in New York, which is not the Roman Empire, Czarist Russia, Nazi-occupied Europe or the Soviet Union. It's a liberal democracy with a relatively functional justice system and a legitimate interest in actually protecting vulnerable members of the community. There are religious authorities that have ruled that in this context, reporting sexual abuse to secular authorities is not only permitted but is required, since it is considered a life-saving act.

Again, though, I'm seeing a widening gap between some of the powerful community figures vs. the women and victim advocates. Some of the women in this community have more access to the rest of the world via internet than the men do, and they talk among themselves. Some are still drinking the Kool-Aid, but I'm noticing in places like imamother.com a very strong current against the abusers, even from some of the Satmar posters.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I reread my posts and wanted to clarify my point about what the community needs to do.

First and foremost, it needs to recognize that the problem is NOT this particular man and this particular conviction. It's the actions and reactions of members of the community, especially at its highest levels. These actions have been completely beyond the bounds of any sort of civilized behavior or any notion of protecting victims.

When I did that list, I was pointing out basic things that are wrong with the status quo. I'm not so naive as to think that everyone in the community would read my list and think, "Thanks, why didn't we think of that? Of course we'll implement your suggestions right away!" Nothing will happen without a fundamental change in viewpoint. To use a Jewish term, there needs to be true "teshuva": a full admission of everything that was done wrong, a full realization of the horror of it, a sense of not just embarrassment that the outside world is saying things but a deep sense of their own moral shame and outrage at the actions of not just the perpetrator but all of those in the community who slammed the victim and those around her, and then a true commitment to implement real changes that would help to protect children in the future.

[Buzzard]

To use a Jewish term, there needs to be true "teshuva": a full admission of everything that was done wrong, a full realization of the horror of it, a sense of not just embarrassment that the outside world is saying things but a deep sense of their own moral shame and outrage at the actions of not just the perpetrator but all of those in the community who slammed the victim and those around her, and then a true commitment to implement real changes that would help to protect children in the future.

And this is where I have a headache. What is the benefit to the community as a whole in keeping molestations silent and allowing children to continue to be abused? They violate more of Jewish law by remaining silent and allowing it to continue, making themselves a part of it. For every child referred to this man, a known and accused molester, the referring person takes on the "sin" of his crime for allowing it to happen. My brain simply cannot reconcile the ability to be so "(jewish) law abiding" while violating the same law at the same time.

I know that all fundies have circle thought, but this just hurts my head more than most.

[LadyFriend]

Just saw this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/12/nuchem-rosenberg-orthodox-rabbi-attacked_n_2283880.html

"NEW YORK -- A New York City rabbi who publicizes claims of child sexual abuse in the ultra-Orthodox community is hospitalized after someone threw an unknown chemical at him.

Police say the two were involved in an "ongoing dispute." No arrest has been made.

Rosenberg runs a website that publicizes child sexual abuse victims in the Satmar Hasidic community.

On Monday, a prominent member of Brooklyn's Satmar Hasidic community, Nechemya Weberman, was convicted of repeatedly sexually abusing a girl that had come to him for counseling.

Rosenberg says he believed the attack was connected to the verdict. Police say there didn't appear to be any connection."

I have a feeling if the police look a little harder they might find a connection....

Nothing like some good old-fashioned bullying to keep your sacred cows clean.

[mystikchick17]

There is a concept in Jewish law that bans "informing" on a Jew to secular authorities - but that originated in a context where Jews had their own legal system, and where secular authorities were likely to be oppressive or even murderous. [Think of the story of Jesus and Pontius Pilate]

More recently in Europe, informing on your rivals to the Czar, or the Nazis, or the Soviets was a very real danger, and something that would cost people their lives.

So, there is a historical reason for Satmar to fear outsiders and the whole idea of "informing". The issue now is that the community is living in New York, which is not the Roman Empire, Czarist Russia, Nazi-occupied Europe or the Soviet Union. It's a liberal democracy with a relatively functional justice system and a legitimate interest in actually protecting vulnerable members of the community. There are religious authorities that have ruled that in this context, reporting sexual abuse to secular authorities is not only permitted but is required, since it is considered a life-saving act.

Again, though, I'm seeing a widening gap between some of the powerful community figures vs. the women and victim advocates. Some of the women in this community have more access to the rest of the world via internet than the men do, and they talk among themselves. Some are still drinking the Kool-Aid, but I'm noticing in places like imamother.com a very strong current against the abusers, even from some of the Satmar posters.

I will agree that thethread on Weberman's verdict (which is still publicly available, though I suspect not for long) is refreshingly anti-Weberman. The shit starts to hit the fan though around page 7, where a poster named gratefulmom (who is confirmed to be Satmar by another poster who seems positively liberal-leaning by Satmar standards, Maya) starts insisting that obviously the girl enjoyed the sex and wanted it and is a liar, etc. Maya also explains that there is a shocking amount of ignorance based on misinformation and lies in Williamsburg concerning the case. I'm vastly relieved though, to see so many women speaking out against gratefulmom because it's a definite shift from earlier threads on rape and abuse. Hell, some of them are even tossing around terms like victim shaming. Progress will come, I hope. I do get the sense that this case in particular marks a turning point.

[emmiedahl]

Yeah, when the Satmar lady started going off and saying that the victim has been a whore since she was out of diapers...

No, she was a sweet little Jewish girl, and the community was happy with her until she started acting out after years of abuse from some upstanding Chassid.

[moodygirl86]

Riiight, so it's worse to speak out against sexual abuse than it is to sexually abuse people??? Let me get back to you when I've untangled this web of warped logic...

[FaustianSlip]

Fucking good. I'm glad this guy got what was coming to him- it's more than past time for the New York DA to start going after this stuff, and it's shameful that they've been actively ignoring a lot of it for fear of upsetting the Hasidic voting bloc. The molestation going on in the ultra-Orthodox community is about as big a chilul Hashem (a desecration of God's name) as you can get. They are very visibly, very identifiably Jewish, they claim to represent "true halacha," to be the most pious Jews out there, and they're brushing shit like this under the rug? I don't frigging think so, folks. And this isn't just a U.S. thing, either- this stuff is finally starting to get rooted out in Hasidic communities all over the place. London, Australia, everyone's having their own versions of the Weberman trial. It's not an isolated incident, and neither is the attempted witness intimidation.

I completely agree with 2xx1xy1JD- the Hasidic community needs to start really dealing with this stuff in a very concrete way, or this latest batch of cases is only going to be the beginning. It probably is only the beginning, but reacting with witness harassment and notices on walls isn't going to help anyone. Not that I think that's likely to get the Satmar community to do much, but I hope they prove me wrong.

[jenny_islander]

What the actual fuck.

That's all I can say. I was molested as a child and if somebody had tried to shame me like that, I'm sure I wouldn't be here today. How the hell can people lose their minds like this and have zero concern about the damage done and the further damage they are causing to HUMAN BEINGS with their intimidation tactics?

I was molested too. We both know the answer: nobody who thinks that way actually sees the child or wants to think about the perpetrator doing evil or start the difficult process of getting the perpetrator away from where they can do more evil; they want to smooth over such disturbing thoughts, and the easiest way to do that is to shame and blame and silence the victim. Then life can continue on its smooth course.

I think I'd better stop here because I shouldn't have opened this thread at all. Sorry.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Over the years, imamother.com has started to deal more and more with issues like abuse and even has private forums for survivors.

Some of the vocal posters on that thread, like Barbara, are Modern Orthodox, but there were some Satmar women as well. Mama Bear is one. I found her posts started with "this is bad for the community", but then morphed into "I know others who had their lives screwed up by this guy". [Mama Bear and I don't have many views in common, but I like her. In a world where super-sized families are the norm and people don't discuss problems, she's written about her really long struggle with infertility and then having a child with autism.]

I really tend to see sexual abuse cases as being about the powerful status quo vs. victims who may threaten it. People will choose to be blind if it affects family members or beloved football coaches or powerful religious leaders.