Where do you imagine your place would be in a fundie world?

[EyeQueue]

Has anyone read "The Gate to Women's Country"? I LOVE that book.

LOVE that book, along with 95% of the rest of Tepper's stuff.

Edited for formatting.

[JeanneD]

After growing up semi-fundie I know that I could spew the rhetoric back and certainly 'cover' for a very, very long time. I'd have to teach my husband how to cover, but I think we could avoid much of the re-education. I think the worst would be knowing that many of my family members aren't just covering, but actually believe the malarky.

In regards to the 'one true church' inner struggle, I can certainly sympathize. I've spent years working on that one issue . . . it can still be crippling. I don't have the answer save for this - human institutions have always been, and will always be fallible. The spirit of G-d can dwell in more than one house at once, in more than one heart at once and in more than one mind at once.

[miffy]

I'd free everybody by putting on a school dance in a grain warehouse that just happens to be over the town border.

[jenny_islander]

About the One True Church issue: You might look into an Episcopal congregation. Episcopalianism is based on the Middle Way; stated broadly, this means that if it isn't mentioned in the creeds hammered out by Christians many centuries ago or mentioned by Jesus Himself, then it's optional, and all options are okay. Infant baptism or believer's baptism? Yes. Sacraments: dip, sip, or separate cups? Yes. Bible: KJV, NIV, RSV, or NRSV? Yes, and throw in an NEB and a Jerusalem Bible while you're at it. [Name of church office here], intended for men or for women? Yes. High church or low church? Yes.

The problem with this approach is the human tendency to assume that the local customs are The Way Things Should Be; this is corrected partly by the hierarchy (when they are on the ball) responding to any and all questions about church organization, liturgy, and sacraments mostly with Yes. The other part is that IME Episcopalians are expected to think. "Pay, pray, and obey" does not, IME, work in an Episcopalian congregation. If you sign up for adult Bible study, expect to get a chunk of theology along with it.

My problem with Episcopalians in general is that they have this thing about how the person in the tall hat and the robes has to be present for certain sacred events to truly occur, but I was raised Lutheran, so.

[Peas n carrots]

I would have long fled to the UK, and would be involved in an underground resistance movement. I may even become a spy at some point and be airdropped behind enemy lines with skirts and a long hair wig.

[precious_one]

I would be in Hell because I am an unrepentant sinner.

[guidedbybobafett]

My boyfriend are currently working out a book code in case we need to communicate when we join the coming underground resistance

[RachelB]

Depending on the timeline, I might not exist. My mom either would never have gone to seminary and thus wouldn't have met my father or-- if the fundie world would have been instituted after they met-- she would have forcibly removed from our family as an unwoman (preacher, short-haired, loud-mouthed, liberal). In that second scenario, my father (whom I think would go along to get along) would have been remarried to a kool-aid drinker.

I do know one thing: The work that I'm training to do, and that I think I'm reasonably good at, would not exist, because there would be no public education. Certainly there would be no public education that attempts to teach children and young adults how to think critically, anyway. Realistically, I'm too pacifist to be a revolutionary. I expect that the societal dynamic of Gilead would amplify my social anxiety by raising the stakes of figuring out who's trustworthy, which means I wouldn't join the underground resistance, either. I think were my current self plunked into this sort of situation, I'd end up hiding in the woods, trying to subsist on roots and berries and greens, terrified of my own shadow.

[Spider Burps]

You know, I've been thinking about this for a few days and I really think my place would be pretty similar to where it is now (assuming the world before now still existed, thus affording my husband the education and job he has). I don't believe any one person can change the current system, so I'm not an activist of any sort (I don't even vote) and, therefore, probably wouldn't be if fundies ruled the world. I graduated from home school (online) at 16, I went to college, but dropped out and became a housewife when I was 19. My husband went to college and then got his masters, and now he works for a nonprofit that works to raise climate change awareness (they have even done work with evangelicals and veterans, so bonus pointz for him). I only wear skirts, haven't cut my hair in years, don't wear makeup, have had excellent success with NFP, etc. so we'd just... keep on keepin' on, I guess.

...That's a little depressing, now that I think about it.

ETA: I just remembered! Mr. Burps essentially learned to run a farm during his bachelors program. We'd be raisin' crops for the Lord! :lol:

[Dollypeeps]

If in my youth I would be a SAHD for as long as possible my mother would of fitted in very well in fundie land sadly. She is like Michelle as in weaning stage then no interest but no older sib to pass me of to I was in a playpen a lot of the time. Two brothers I raised partly with an Aunt. Mother became unwell after them which was just her narcissistic tendencies coming to the fore. Everything for a quiet life for mother.

If in this time I would be on death row cos what I have studied pychology in both humans and animals and all living creatures have feelings so fuck you famy.

I couldn't conform no way and if rampant everywhere UK Would be included ooooh grim times for sure if this was a reality.

Now who is the one doing a book please do and print and I can have a copy too or do it as an ebook cos I would read it in that form better cos then it's nationwide.

Edited because I can write a sentence.

[Phoebe]

Since my husband freely admits that I'm smarter than he is :dance: we'd have to work on our acting chops. Cover story would be something along the lines of living on a minifarm taking in the poor benighted orphans for some Godly raising The Way Things Used To Be. In reality, sure we'd have orphans (can't have kids of my own), but I'd be teaching them birth control techniques, methods of inducing abortion, and medical asepsis...then sending them among the wolves to minister to the FJ resistance. :shhh:

[longskirts]

With the huge exceptions of Judaism and my college degree, I might fit in okay in fundiedom. I like flowy skirts, homeschooling, big families, vintage and old-fashioned type stuff... I would probably be reading Victorian classics and baking for everyone near and far. At least until someone caught me sneaking off to the library to read about evolution.

[pomology]

I'd be shipped off to the Colonies with the rest of the UnWomen.

Pretty much. Nothing more to say.

[pomology]

I would be a second-class citizen due my religion. I would probably be required to attend a fundie church similar to mandatory church attendance in the Puritan times. I would not be surprised if I had to wear something marking me as an outsider (a yellow star perhaps?) so that people knew I was not one of them.

Yeah, this, too.

I would add my own thoughts but sparkles and emmie have said it all.

[SurroundedbyFundies]

Considering I live somewhere that is already a fundie paradise, I kind of feel like I am already battling this. What I have found so far is that my role thus far is to the "the dirty little secret" friend. The one the fundies call when they want to drink a cocktail outside of their bedroom closet or say the "f word" without gasps and finger pointing. As long as I keep my mouth shut about how stupid courtship is for their teenaged daughters and dont criticize The Vision Forum too much, I am generally ok. I have found that I dont get invites to weddings, however. I am ok with that..saves the awkward viewing of the first kiss.

[Kitty]

I'd love to read this too, but I have questions maybe not so much about your story, but about how you think a future like what you've written could actually happen, how would it all go down? Would there be another Civil War? I highly doubt that the Union would just let the southern states go and take all the military bases and ammunition in the south as a parting gift. What of the people in the south who didn't want to secede or who weren't fundie would they be kicked out, allowed to leave or forced to stay like the East Germans were after the Berlin Wall went up? Would there be a mass exodus from the fundie south? Would the United States welcome them or would the borders be closed? Would there be a closed armed border on either side to keep people in or out? Would there be infighting amongst the different denominations of fundies for control? How would the fundie south develope an economy and currency? What would their relationship to the UN and the rest of the world be? Who would be their allies and trade partners? How would they handle natural disasters if things like Katrina or Sandy became more frequent because of global warming? How would they explain it if they don't believe in global warming they're obeying God's laws and the rapture doesn't happen? What about the elderly who paid into social security and were planning on relying on it in their golden years? I guess I really wonder what is going on in the heads of the people who want this and how far they've really thought it through and how much of a clusterfuck to the rest of us think it would be

Guh, so many questions at once! It's literally taken me days to try to sit down and address them all. Nothing is official yet, but imagine all the Southern states under a fundie version of the Articles of Confederation where Congress is actually allowed to levy taxes, there's a Christian version of the Guardian Council like in Iran, and Religious Police like in Saudi Arabia.

There will be another Civil War, yes, but thanks to international pressure plus various natural disasters in other parts of the US, the South manages to secede anyway and the war is ended by a treaty. Throughout the war, fundies flooded in and non-fundies fled north, so yes, there's a mass exodus out. The treaty states, though, that all the Union bases in the South remain Union bases; the South has to build its own military. It isn't a military power and few other countries take it seriously, but it's continued to piss off the Middle East (despite being inspired by Iran and Saudi Arabia, lol). It's recognized by other nations, just not very powerful (though of course propaganda says otherwise). Oh, and being a "taxes are theft!" SOTDRT-educated fundie land, it's turned into a third world country within decades. It absolutely fails at dealing with hurricanes, but since it's more likely to get hit by hurricanes than anywhere else, it means the US doesn't have to worry as much, though does still have to clean up Virginia (which does secede, but is re-captured by the Union). As for denominational in-fighting, there's some, but it only affects wealthy politicians, who are rather far removed from their largely impoverished constituents.

The story itself takes place 50-80 years after the civil war. Again, it's a third world country where some are rich, and the rest are very poor. Relations with the US have improved enough to open the borders. The story starts from the point of view of a girl in North Carolina who is wealthy enough to go to a boarding school that allows its students quite a bit of freedom (a bit conservative by our standards, but fairly normal, and in the South it's very unusual), and she slowly begins to realize just how fucked up the South is. Then it starts focusing on other characters, like the daughter of a Debi Pearl expy, a mother's helper to the expy's close friend, a religious police officer who secretly joins one of the resistance groups, and a "training center" inmate.

[NjoyingNsanity]

Really cool ideas, and very well thought out let me know whenever you finish it because I'd love to read it. Sorry about all the questions I just find it crazy and frightening that there are people who actually want this as a reality and not a work of fiction. I live in the south and have seen people going in two opposite directions either increasingly liberal or insanely fundie.

[Minerva]

I wonder how long the SOTDRT/homechurch culture would last. Right now, it's useful to fundies because it allows them to isolate themselves from the ebil libruls, but letting people teach their own children and run their own churches sounds like a recipe for dissent and diverging thought.

I bet they'd keep a group of scientists locked up and only let them access their equipment when science or medicine was needed. Which wouldn't happen often because everyone would be trying to heal their kids' ear infections with black salve, but when someone powerful needed antibiotics, or when a fetus needed to be saved, or they needed to identify a parasite, or someone's wife needed misoprostol for her "stomach ulcers", they'd lead them to the lab and supervise them closely. Of course, these scientists would eventually get too old to work, so select youngsters would be removed from their families and the scientists would be allowed to teach them the truth and train them. Then this new generation of scientists would be kept locked up. People on the outside would know about the small community of scientists whose expertise keeps them alive, but they would know them as the actors who appear on TV in lab coats to remind the world that evolution isn't real and talk about what this week's round of groundbreaking experiments has revealed about the accuracy of Newtonian physics.

[jenny_islander]

I wonder how long the SOTDRT/homechurch culture would last. Right now, it's useful to fundies because it allows them to isolate themselves from the ebil libruls, but letting people teach their own children and run their own churches sounds like a recipe for dissent and diverging thought.

I bet they'd keep a group of scientists locked up and only let them access their equipment when science or medicine was needed. Which wouldn't happen often because everyone would be trying to heal their kids' ear infections with black salve, but when someone powerful needed antibiotics, or when a fetus needed to be saved, or they needed to identify a parasite, or someone's wife needed misoprostol for her "stomach ulcers", they'd lead them to the lab and supervise them closely. Of course, these scientists would eventually get too old to work, so select youngsters would be removed from their families and the scientists would be allowed to teach them the truth and train them. Then this new generation of scientists would be kept locked up. People on the outside would know about the small community of scientists whose expertise keeps them alive, but they would know them as the actors who appear on TV in lab coats to remind the world that evolution isn't real and talk about what this week's round of groundbreaking experiments has revealed about the accuracy of Newtonian physics.

The SOTDRT and homechurch movements would either persist until the Theocratic State of America became a completely failed state, or some judicious rewriting of history and removal of incriminating sermons from publication would allow the rulers to justify increasing levels of inspection and eventually enforcement of school co-ops and buttoned-up Community Sings. This would be in the name of ensuring sound doctrine, but really to prevent this or that cantankerous patriarch seceding to form his own micro-state or just going nuts and forting up and shooting at anybody he identified with Satan who came near.

As for science, I don't think the Theocratic State of America would allow the teaching of such heathen nonsense. But the upper-ups would quietly hire whatever experts they needed to accomplish whatever tasks they wanted, flying them in from the World and keeping them sequestered in special compounds where they would shop at special stores and perhaps be allowed to worship very quietly in their own homes, if they didn't show any Godless Lutheran hymnals or Satanic RSV Bibles. Of course, this would depend on how much money the upper-ups actually had. I suspect that unbeknownst to the true believers among the flock, the upper crust would have their fingers in a lot of very dirty pies. Illegal drugs, almost certainly. Of course, if they were a bunch of drug lords, the official explanation for their wealth would be God's favor.

As for the name: The general rule of thumb is that the more the official name of the country tries to advertise how wonderful the country is, the more barbaric, backward, and brutal local practices actually are. So I would guess that the full name of the place would be The Prophesied, Blessed, and Theocratic State of America, God's True Chosen Nation, Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. TSA for short, but only in the World. You have to call it America or Blessed America or True America if you live there.

[marmalade]

I'd be the leader of the underground resistance. I'd wear a very fetching beret and take scores of unshaven politically motivated lovers. People would make films about me in later years (after we'd orchestrated the fundie downfall) and they would get some sort of Brigitte Bardot lookalike to play me.

(even though I look as much like BB as a turd looks like a pearl necklace but shh, artistic licence)

Meanwhile I would be a retired old lady living in the country, I would keep one of the beardy lovers and lots of cats. My ten children would all laugh at the idea of me as a rebel, I would just smile knowingly and sip my sloe gin.

I'd so be a member of this resistance movement. Love the front of old fundie widow with secret lover, cats and sloe gin fizzes. Bathroom gin, of course. :D

[CoatRack]

Considering I'm currently a trans male Unitarian Universalist in seminary to become a minister in an open relationship with a genderqueer atheist Jew...

Basically I'm screwed.