Elizabeth Smart @ ABC should check out some fundies

[Marian the Librarian]

Here's a thought ~~

Elizabeth Smart recently joined ABC as a contributor focusing on child abduction and abuse. Perhaps someone should tip her off to families like the Maxwells, Pearls and Botkins. The kids haven't been abducted per se, but there is certainly evidence of various behaviors these families themselves have blogged/published books about: extreme corporal punishment, isolation from the outside world, withholding food (see today's post re: the Maxwells), emotional hostage-taking. All of which would meet any "reasonable person" definition of abuse; and all in the name of extremist versions of Christianity.

Just sayin.'

[bananacat]

I don't know how to get in touch with her, but I would do it. If multiple people do it, she might look into it. But I have a feeling that she would hesitate to investigate because these parents are doing it under the guise of religion. There might be a case to do an expose on the Pearls because of Lydia Shatz's death, and maybe also the families that adopt orphans from different countries, but most of them are not doing anything technically illegal and many people would come to their defense.

[Magickba115]

But yet she was kidnapped by a crazy religious kook. She might be intrigued by the idea...

[luckylibrarian]

At the same time, look at the family she comes from. I don't the Smarts are that much different than some of the fundies we talk about. I suspect in the Mormon world, some of the practices we find so abhorrent here aren't all that unusual where she comes from.

[Soulhuntress]

At the same time, look at the family she comes from. I don't the Smarts are that much different than some of the fundies we talk about. I suspect in the Mormon world, some of the practices we find so abhorrent here aren't all that unusual where she comes from.

Sad but true. Something to know is that Keep Sweet is a mormon and fundie mormon requirement for their girls. I don't think Ms Smart would see anything wrong with the fundies if they have the "saccharine sweet" facade going on: it will be just like a Relief Society Super Saturday (pardon me while i barf). :roll:

[deelaem]

Sad but true. Something to know is that Keep Sweet is a mormon and fundie mormon requirement for their girls. I don't think Ms Smart would see anything wrong with the fundies if they have the "saccharine sweet" facade going on: it will be just like a Relief Society Super Saturday (pardon me while i barf). :roll:

I'm laughing my ass off here, because I once went to a Relief Society thing with my Mormon sister. While I was trying not to gag over the block of cream cheese with fruit cocktail on it that was supposed to be our lunch, I sat back and in nauseous amazement, observed the most phony sweetness I think I've ever seen. It was very competitive, too.

I agree, there's no way Elizabeth Smart would take on the Pearls, etc. She'd be too afraid that would mean an indictment on religion. Maybe Jaycee Dugard will go into journalism. I admire the heck out of her.

[Austin]

Sad but true. Something to know is that Keep Sweet is a mormon and fundie mormon requirement for their girls. I don't think Ms Smart would see anything wrong with the fundies if they have the "saccharine sweet" facade going on: it will be just like a Relief Society Super Saturday (pardon me while i barf). :roll:

This was my thought. I am very glad that Elizabeth Smart was able to get away from her captors and has gone on to put her life back together. But yeah, I think we're only talking, at most, a couple of degrees of separation here between the Smarts and a lot of the fundies we look at.

I can see her being a good correspondent regarding child abduction, but what puts her in any kind of position to be an expert in child abuse? Those are very different things (although not mutually exclusive). I don't know - maybe she has a degree of some sort in a field that would qualify her on the child abuse issue. I really haven't kept up with what she's doing.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I'm laughing my ass off here, because I once went to a Relief Society thing with my Mormon sister. While I was trying not to gag over the block of cream cheese with fruit cocktail on it that was supposed to be our lunch, I sat back and in nauseous amazement, observed the most phony sweetness I think I've ever seen. It was very competitive, too.

I agree, there's no way Elizabeth Smart would take on the Pearls, etc. She'd be too afraid that would mean an indictment on religion. Maybe Jaycee Dugard will go into journalism. I admire the heck out of her.

That sounds so much like the young ladies' group at my old fundie church I couldn't help busting out laughing at your description. :lol: Between the traditional Southern veneer of sweetness and the fundie Stay Sweet stuff, an observer would probably have had a field day picking apart the social interactions in that place.

So, what is Relief Society anyway? I'm not too familiar with Mormon culture aside from reading books like Under the Banner of Heaven, which isn't exactly pro-Mormon.

[luckylibrarian]

I can see her being a good correspondent regarding child abduction, but what puts her in any kind of position to be an expert in child abuse? Those are very different things (although not mutually exclusive). I don't know - maybe she has a degree of some sort in a field that would qualify her on the child abuse issue. I really haven't kept up with what she's doing.

She majored in the thriving field of "harp performance" at Brigham Young University, so, no, she isn't qualified to be an expert on child abuse.

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but something about Elizabeth Smart's demeanor in the last few years strikes me as fake - like she has all of this turmoil under the surface, but her family (especially her father) is forcing her to keep sweet and be a perfect Mormon daughter who doesn't need therapy. I think the family (and probably the LDS church) is putting a lot of pressure on her to show that Mormons don't need professional help or experience trauma like the rest of us heathens.

ETA: I do have a lot of respect for Elizabeth, and I wish her well. It's just that her family and her church strike me as very controlling. I feel like she's been brainwashed twice - once by Brian David Mitchell and once by her father and church.

[Austin]

She majored in the thriving field of "harp performance" at Brigham Young University, so, no, she isn't qualified to be an expert on child abuse.

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but something about Elizabeth Smart's demeanor in the last few years strikes me as fake - like she has all of this turmoil under the surface, but her family (especially her father) is forcing her to keep sweet and be a perfect Mormon daughter who doesn't need therapy. I think the family (and probably the LDS church) is putting a lot of pressure on her to show that Mormons don't need professional help or experience trauma like the rest of us heathens.

Ack, I was being a chicken and didn't post that, but I definitely feel the same way. To me, IMO, something is "off" with that girl. And it is no wonder given the horror that she's been through. Family is great and all that, but intensive professional counseling seems appropriate for someone who had her experience. Now she seems sweet and. . . flat.

I also noticed the difference between Jaycee Dugard and her affect compared to Eliabeth Smart's. They're two different people, and we had never heard from either one of them before their abductions, so no before and after to compare. But Jaycee seemed more animated, more in touch, more. . . real. I don't know how else to put it. And she had been with those crazeeeee people for 18 years.

[Jessica]

So, what is Relief Society anyway? I'm not too familiar with Mormon culture aside from reading books like Under the Banner of Heaven, which isn't exactly pro-Mormon.

http://lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-admi ... ef+society

[Deleted03]

She majored in the thriving field of "harp performance" at Brigham Young University, so, no, she isn't qualified to be an expert on child abuse.

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but something about Elizabeth Smart's demeanor in the last few years strikes me as fake - like she has all of this turmoil under the surface, but her family (especially her father) is forcing her to keep sweet and be a perfect Mormon daughter who doesn't need therapy. I think the family (and probably the LDS church) is putting a lot of pressure on her to show that Mormons don't need professional help or experience trauma like the rest of us heathens.

ETA: I do have a lot of respect for Elizabeth, and I wish her well. It's just that her family and her church strike me as very controlling. I feel like she's been brainwashed twice - once by Brian David Mitchell and once by her father and church.

wait - she does not get therapy? none at all? Tell me I'm misunderstanding here.... Even better reason to question her capacity as expert... tell all those girls they only need the book of mormons to get over abduction and molestation?

[GolightlyGrrl]

Not to be a bitch or anything, but with so many would-be journalists who are struggling to get a job, why does Elizabeth Smart get this gig? Because she was a kidnap victim? What exactly are her reporting and journalistic credentials? I don't see them. Furthermore, Elizabeth has the personality of oatmeal. I can't imagine her "popping" on-air. I don't expect her to be completely off the rails like Nancy Grace, but Elizabeth needs more "ooomph."

Thanks for letting me rant. I guess I'm just bitter.

[Jessica]

Why are you all assuming that because Elizabeth Smart isn't getting therapy, the LDS church is anti-therapy?

[Austin]

I don't know that much about it, and was basing my comment off of previous comments. Maybe she is getting therapy, but I do seem to remember the father (Ed Smart?) being interviewed not too long after she was recovered and him kind of pooh-poohing the therapy thing, being more in favor of faith/family/community (LDS community?) to help her recover.

But either way, it doesn't change the impression of the flat affect she has. And she does not seem to have ANY journalism/reporting credentials. I could understand her speaking of child abduction from her own viewpoint, but that doesn't have much to do with all-too-common child abuse.

[longskirtlotsakids]

Oh mama. The LDS church is against therapy that is not Pro-LDS.

I just finished "Leaving the Saints" by Martha Beck.

The defense of the Elders against any type of retribution is scary. They can rape little girls and be defended.

There is no way Elizabeth Smart will be a non-biased pundit on the subject of child abuse and remain Mormon.

mark my words, she will defend the Mormon Church as a pinnacle of child protection, while the truth would raise your hackles.

[valsa]

Why are you all assuming that because Elizabeth Smart isn't getting therapy, the LDS church is anti-therapy?

I believe Elizabeth herself said, in her interview on Oprah, she's never had regular therapy after her abduction, supposedly because she knew her parents were always there if she needed to talk. I believe she also said that in the week after she first got home, Elizabeth had a conversation with her mother where her mom said what happened to her was an "evil" and that, if she dwelled on it, she was only giving her abductor power over her. Sounds like a "keep sweet" pep talk to me.

A friend of mine (sexually abused though never abducted) was pretty pissed at what she viewed as Elizabeth's perpetuating of mis-information. That you don't need to get help after being victimized, you just need to "get over it".

[Elle]

The reason she's good for her position is because she can give a different perspective on the stories. Not a whole lot of kidnap victims can openly talk about what's happened. She's not an expert on child abuse in general, but how many experts on child abuse went through anything remotely like abuse or abduction? A white man can't be an expert on being a black woman any better than someone who grew up wealthy and with every comfort in life can be a real expert on being abducted, kept in squalid conditions with barely enough to eat while being repeatedly raped. Reading from a book and experiencing something are drastically different things. Elizabeth may not have a degree, but she has very personal experience and an ability and willingness to talk that matter for more than reading out of a book. I'd rather listen to her talk about abuse and abduction than some rich guy who went to Harvard.

[moreorlessnu]

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but something about Elizabeth Smart's demeanor in the last few years strikes me as fake - like she has all of this turmoil under the surface, but her family (especially her father) is forcing her to keep sweet and be a perfect Mormon daughter who doesn't need therapy.

This.

I made a comment in another thread that she dresses like a much older woman, in clothing, hair and makeup. Someone else commented back that this was how many of the young Mormon women look. Before that comment, I was wondering if her family was trying to attract an older Mormon man, someone who might be more emotionally mature, and capable of dealing with whatever trauma she's still dealing with. No doubt, it's going to take someone very emotionally mature and sensitive to help her with some of her first romantic experiences.

It's hard to say if Elizabeth is being real, or if her demeanor is just typical of other young Mormon women. Jaycee is much more real for having gone through her experience.

[ADoyle90815]

I believe Elizabeth herself said, in her interview on Oprah, she's never had regular therapy after her abduction, supposedly because she knew her parents were always there if she needed to talk. I believe she also said that in the week after she first got home, Elizabeth had a conversation with her mother where her mom said what happened to her was an "evil" and that, if she dwelled on it, she was only giving her abductor power over her. Sounds like a "keep sweet" pep talk to me.

A friend of mine (sexually abused though never abducted) was pretty pissed at what she viewed as Elizabeth's perpetuating of mis-information. That you don't need to get help after being victimized, you just need to "get over it".

The only therapy many Mormons approve of are seeing counselors through the SS(Social Services) of their church. Unfortunately, mental illness is seen as a sin by many Mormons, that if the person just prayed more, read the scriptures and paid their tithing, the illness would go away. With abuse trauma, the victim is often told to just get over it, and the worst thing that was said by a former President of the church in "Miracle of Forgiveness" that rape victims are at fault because they didn't fight to the death to preserve their virginity.

[deelaem]

Why are you all assuming that because Elizabeth Smart isn't getting therapy, the LDS church is anti-therapy?

Oh geeze, please don't say you're another Mormon defender. The LDS church IS anti-therapy if it's done outside their church. My Mormon sister suffered from anxiety for years before she was finally allowed to get medication, with the caveat that it would only be temporary. Before that, she was told her anxiety was due to a lack of faith.

[valsa]

The reason she's good for her position is because she can give a different perspective on the stories. Not a whole lot of kidnap victims can openly talk about what's happened. She's not an expert on child abuse in general, but how many experts on child abuse went through anything remotely like abuse or abduction? A white man can't be an expert on being a black woman any better than someone who grew up wealthy and with every comfort in life can be a real expert on being abducted, kept in squalid conditions with barely enough to eat while being repeatedly raped. Reading from a book and experiencing something are drastically different things. Elizabeth may not have a degree, but she has very personal experience and an ability and willingness to talk that matter for more than reading out of a book. I'd rather listen to her talk about abuse and abduction than some rich guy who went to Harvard.

Gee, can you make your anti-intellectualism any more blatant? I'm not sure the people in comas quite picked up on it.

I've flown on a plane before but that doesn't make me qualified as an expert on aviation. Elizabeth has her own experience to draw from and that is a powerful resource, but it's only one experience and rather atypical at that. Add this to the fact she hasn't even undergone any counseling to get perspective on her own experience and she's woefully unqualified to be considered an expert in anything but being a kidnap and sexual abuse victim.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Gee, can you make your anti-intellectualism any more blatant? I'm not sure the people in comas quite picked up on it.

I've flown on a plane before but that doesn't make me qualified as an expert on aviation. Elizabeth has her own experience to draw from and that is a powerful resource, but it's only one experience and rather atypical at that. Add this to the fact she hasn't even undergone any counseling to get perspective on her own experience and she's woefully unqualified to be considered an expert in anything but being a kidnap and sexual abuse victim.

This!

I've memorized countless U2 lyrics; that doesn't make me Bono.

[longskirtlotsakids]

Also, I think it speaks volumes that she was so easily programmed by her abductors. A heathen child most likely would have planned an escape, but her brain was wired from the get-go to be obedient. SHe has no other setting. She could probably be kidnapped again and do the same exact thing.

[QueenMother]

Elizabeth Smart was a student at BYU, and then took her 18 month break to her her church mission in France. I don't know if she completed her degree at BYU though. If so, perhaps she was a psych major with hopes of one day helping other children in need.