Pope Afraid of Secularism

[Anxious Girl]

In other words, the Vatican finally realizing that the shit's hitting the fan way too late:

http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012 ... arism?lite

like costumes and fancy ceremonies will persuade people to come back to the Church, you miserable Piece of Shit. Maybe, and just maybe, if you allow women rights in your organization, and admit your past mistakes, maybe people will think about re-joining/start attending masses again. Trying to make the Church more conservative in its policies won't work, you hypocritical Piece of Shit.

[BravaAmica]

I miss Pope John Paul II. He wasn't perfect but he seemed to care more about the spirit of the church than the letter of its laws.

[Cran]

I do think that's a false impression of JPII. He favoured the Opus Dei (far much than the current pope), had a document published that elevated the teaching that women can't be priests very nearly to a dogma, had strict church discipline enforced against "dissenting" theologians (against those who were in favour of liberation theology, for example), and put a very great emphasis on the veneration of Mary, also more than Benedikt.

The Church has been complaining about "secularism and the Godless current times" since it came to power, so I think there's really nothing very remarkable happening...

[LadyFriend]

like costumes and fancy ceremonies will persuade people to come back to the Church, you miserable Piece of Shit. Maybe, and just maybe, if you allow women rights in your organization, and admit your past mistakes, maybe people will think about re-joining/start attending masses again.

This. All day long...this.

It also would help if they would get the hell out of global politics. There is definitely something to the idea that the separation of church and state benefits religious institutions by preventing the poisoning that can come along with political entanglement. Not sure the Catholic church has ever not been entangled in politics, but it would be a prudent move on their part to stop being so divisive. Then again....I hope people keep fleeing this cancerous organization, so go ahead and keep doing exactly what you are doing, your popeliness. (ex-Catholic...can you tell? :twisted: )

[Becket70]

When I lived in a more urban area, I used to get approached by evangelists while I waited for the bus. (no escaping that situation....must catch bus) They would go on and on about the times we live in and how they were as bad as they could be and the end times were coming...yada, yada. I would always remind them of the age of the Black Death when approximately half the world population perished. I would tell them that that seemed a lot worse than what was going on presently. It usually shut them up.

[doggie]

tell them good that end times are coming then the world will be free of such asshats :mrgreen: since only god could love such people.

[ADoyle90815]

This. All day long...this.

It also would help if they would get the hell out of global politics. There is definitely something to the idea that the separation of church and state benefits religious institutions by preventing the poisoning that can come along with political entanglement. Not sure the Catholic church has ever not been entangled in politics, but it would be a prudent move on their part to stop being so divisive. Then again....I hope people keep fleeing this cancerous organization, so go ahead and keep doing exactly what you are doing, your popeliness. (ex-Catholic...can you tell? :twisted: )

This. But then again, the Catholic church has always been involved with politics from the beginning when Constantine started the Catholic church when he made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. If anything, they're still upset that it's no longer acceptable to burn witches or heretics these days. Back then, it was easy to get women to shut up about inequality, just have witch hunts and the fires. Another ex-Catholic here, and that was just because I was baptized to appease my grandparents who were devout Catholics.

[Cran]

Please... for the love of nail polish, cakes and defrauding pictures... Constantine did NOT make Christianity the official religion of the empire!

Constantin changed its status to a religio licita, a religion that was allowed to be practised. It took more years until the end of the reign of Theodosius I. to make the old pagan cults illegal.

Witch hunts were committed by Protestants and Catholics alike, and in many cases, not the religious, but the secular authorities were responsible.

Now on with the regular snark.

[LadyFriend]

This. But then again, the Catholic church has always been involved with politics from the beginning when Constantine started the Catholic church when he made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. If anything, they're still upset that it's no longer acceptable to burn witches or heretics these days. Back then, it was easy to get women to shut up about inequality, just have witch hunts and the fires. Another ex-Catholic here, and that was just because I was baptized to appease my grandparents who were devout Catholics.

They are definitely not dealing well with the fact that their days of virtual/mental empire-wielding are coming to a decisive end. They have gone from ruling the Western world to a political footnote in a very short period of time. Must be tough. :violin:

All I know is that as long as they continue to degrade and persecute me for having been born with an allegedly god-given vagina, I will continue to fight against them.

[LadyFriend]

Please... for the love of nail polish, cakes and defrauding pictures... Constantine did NOT make Christianity the official religion of the empire!

Constantin changed its status to a religio licita, a religion that was allowed to be practised. It took more years until the end of the reign of Theodosius I. to make the old pagan cults illegal.

Witch hunts were committed by Protestants and Catholics alike, and in many cases, not the religious, but the secular authorities were responsible.

Now on with the regular snark.

1. Kudos to you for fighting the good historicity fight. I fear that the Constantine = Roman Christianity meme will be a tough one to defeat, but I commend and appreciate your effort!

2. The point that the Catholic Church has wielded and been used to wield political power for centuries is correct. It feels like there were fewer negative repercussions to that in the past, but that is probably just a result of my skewed/modern POV.

[Cran]

2. The point that the Catholic Church has wielded and been used to wield political power for centuries is correct. It feels like there were fewer negative repercussions to that in the past, but that is probably just a result of my skewed/modern POV.

Of course, I didn't want to question that, sorry if it gave the impression.

But can we get "Historicity Fighter" as user title? I feel intensely complimented. :oops:

[Sprocket]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes <- I've always found this interesting.

I'm not Catholic, but are people leaving the Catholic Church in droves? I'm not the biggest fan of organized religion (although I think of myself as a Unitarian) but being in the asscrack of the south, there are no churches that don't think of women as second class citizens. We go to Church of the Holy Pancake on Sunday.

[fakepigtails73]

This. All day long...this.

It also would help if they would get the hell out of global politics. There is definitely something to the idea that the separation of church and state benefits religious institutions by preventing the poisoning that can come along with political entanglement. Not sure the Catholic church has ever not been entangled in politics, but it would be a prudent move on their part to stop being so divisive. Then again....I hope people keep fleeing this cancerous organization, so go ahead and keep doing exactly what you are doing, your popeliness. (ex-Catholic...can you tell? :twisted: )

That's because the Vatican is a sovereign state with a seat at the UN. Shameful.

[LadyFriend]

I'm not Catholic, but are people leaving the Catholic Church in droves? I'm not the biggest fan of organized religion (although I think of myself as a Unitarian) but being in the asscrack of the south, there are no churches that don't think of women as second class citizens. We go to Church of the Holy Pancake on Sunday.

I'm not sure. I left the Catholic Church about 7 years ago, so I don't have a great reference point. I do know that I recently went to a friend's wedding and she had a traditional Catholic sacramental mass. I went to Catholic school for 12 years and many of the guests were acquaintances and families that I knew from those schools. I was SHOCKED to see how many people chose not to participate in communion. There were several families sitting in the pews while what felt like a minority went up to participate. It was actually wonderful (although, purely anecdotal). I would love to get my hands on some real numbers. I imagine they are hard to come by.

I do get the feeling that many otherwise self-identifying Catholics have fled in the wake of the child-abuse scandals. That's the most common answer that I have gotten when asking why people no longer identify with the church. How many people are leaving? Is it really a trend? I have no idea...but I can hope.

[LadyFriend]

That's because the Vatican is a sovereign state with a seat at the UN. Shameful.

AMEN!

[Cran]

Germans like to keep tabs, or so the cliché goes:

In 2001, the Catholic Church in Germany had 26.288.000 members (to say it differently: pay the taxes, says nothing about agreement with the teachings) and the EVangelical-Lutheran Church had 26.454.000.

In 2010, Catholic 23.896.000, Protestant 23.951.00.

A further drop has certainly happened in 2011, but I couldn't find the numbers right away, but in general, people are leaving both confessions rapidly. I guess we're not so different from other countries in the western culture, so we could guess from those numbers that people are indeed leaving, but not to an extent where you'd say organized Christianity will be extinct in the near future. But considering the development in the whole world, the Catholic Church seems to be growing (I'm ot knowledgeable about the other confessions), as Europe and the US only make up a small percentage.

[Anxious Girl]

LadyFriend, they don't even deserve a fucking violin. :twisted:

[Hane]

I do think that's a false impression of JPII. He favoured the Opus Dei (far much than the current pope), had a document published that elevated the teaching that women can't be priests very nearly to a dogma, had strict church discipline enforced against "dissenting" theologians (against those who were in favour of liberation theology, for example), and put a very great emphasis on the veneration of Mary, also more than Benedikt.

The Church has been complaining about "secularism and the Godless current times" since it came to power, so I think there's really nothing very remarkable happening...

Correct times 1 zillion. JP II was cute and cuddly and approachable, so people failed to realize exactly how authoritarian and reactionary he was. As I used to say about him and Ronald Reagan, "If he were the cute old man down the street who gave the neighbors tomatoes and peaches, I'd be very fond of him. But because he's the leader of my religion/country, not so much."

And of course the head of a religious body would be afraid of secularism. It would make the whole house of cards fall.

[PennySycamore]

Thank you for saying this about JP II, Cran and Hane. Hate seeing that he and Mother Teresa are being fast tracked to sainthood.

I read in an article in Vanity Fair several years ago about Pope Ratz Ass that he warned that some of JP II's teachings were basically heretical. I don't admire Ratzinger for much, but that I do.

[Effie]

I think it's about time the Vatican listens to [link=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/vatican-criticizes-sister-margaret-farley_n_1567515.html]Sister Margaret Farley[/link] and her [link=http://www.npr.org/2012/08/10/158589979/nuns-well-talk-to-vatican-but-wont-compromise]sister nuns[/link] in Leadership Conference of Women Religious.

[Curly Girl]

I am a new Catholic convert, who loves her parish and liberal priest, but thinks the dudes at the Vatican can go and sit on some tacks until they get a clue how the real world works.

As for Catholic numbers.... A friend of mine works in administration for a diocese in the NE United States, and the amount of money raised (which of course translates into number of donors) has decreased by 50% in the last 10 years. She said the decline is continuing.

[doggie]

the Vatican is so desperate to keep control of people that they will get worse about it. the way they were endorsing frothy was laughable. education is going to kill them.

[notacleverpony]

Because there can never be too much Tim Minchin (Warning! VERY NSFW!):

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