OMG, A RATIONAL CHRISTIAN GROUP

[sissyintexas]

I read that Romans passage to mean that we all have our struggles. Also, as a member of the Christian Left, I don't believe The Christian Left considers homosexuality a sin. I certainly don't.

Here's a link from a blog from one of the founders from earlier this year.

http://www.thechristianleftblog.org/1/p ... ality.html

[Guest Anonymous]

I read that Romans passage to mean that we all have our struggles. Also, as a member of the Christian Left, I don't believe The Christian Left considers homosexuality a sin. I certainly don't.

Here's a link from a blog from one of the founders from earlier this year.

http://www.thechristianleftblog.org/1/p ... ality.html

I've seen that blog, but I think that what a group collectively puts on it's front page is a bigger indication of what the group stands for, than what an individual member says in an individual blog post.

I agree with you that the passage from Romans is talking broadly about how we all have our struggles. My issue is that 'The Christian Left' claims to stand against oppresssion. And yet they write about homosexuality in a way that suggests that they see homosexuality as a part of the human 'sin' nature, and an issue to struggle with. I think that that view is deeply offensive and extremely oppressive, and it makes the preceding paragraphs look like a pile of wank.

I'd be interested to hear what the early posters on this thread think about this issue.

[formergothardite]

I read that Romans passage to mean that we all have our struggles. Also, as a member of the Christian Left, I don't believe The Christian Left considers homosexuality a sin. I certainly don't.

Here's a link from a blog from one of the founders from earlier this year.

http://www.thechristianleftblog.org/1/p ... ality.html

Individual members might not, but according to the front page of their website, they pretty much imply that the Christian Left does view homosexuality as a sin, they just sugar coat and dance around actually saying it.

The Christian Left sometimes differs from other Christian political groups on issues including homosexuality. This is often not a matter of different religious ideas, but one of focus

In other words, this is not a matter of them disagreeing with conservative Christians on religious ideas concerning homosexuality, just that they choose not to focus on it.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I do think it's wrong to think homosexuality is wrong. I don't have to like these bigots just because they're more polite about. Sure, they're allowed to have their opinion but I don't have to pat them on the back for it. Frankly I am not trusting of anyone who doesn't base their sexual morality on consent as the top priority.

I don't think it's wrong just like I don't think someone thinking it's wrong to be black is wrong. They have a right to be bigots just like I have a right to tell them their bigots and explain how their views are hurtful. But if someone claims to think black people are sinful, no one ever says it's just their religious beliefs and we should accept that. I wish it was treated the same way as racism, for example.

[bananacat]

I disagree. People have the right to be bigots, but they are still wrong. I don't want to take away their legal right to be bigots and say bigoted things, but I don't have to be content with their bigotry just because they're polite about it.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I disagree. People have the right to be bigots, but they are still wrong. I don't want to take away their legal right to be bigots and say bigoted things, but I don't have to be content with their bigotry just because they're polite about it.

Are you disagreeing with me...I meant pretty much exactly what you just said, I guess I just didnt communicate it effectively. They have the right to be bigots, I have the right to tell them their bigots and their views are horrible. That`s what I meant.

[bananacat]

I am the one who didn't communicate clearly, sorry. We both agree that people have a legal right to be bigots. But you said you don't thing it's wrong to hold racist beliefs. I do think it's wrong even if they never act on it.

[VVV]

I don't think homosexuality or homosexual behavior are sinful, although the latter might be sinful in the same way that heterosexual behavior might be sinful, when one person sees another person as an object to be used. I had not focused on the Christian Left's statement about homosexuality although I can see how it could be interpreted in a disturbing way.

I don't recall seeing any CL posts on FB having to do with sexual behavior, unless one wants to count posts supportive of reproductive rights. But I don't see everything, and it's very clear that the various admins of the CL have distinctively different posting styles.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I am the one who didn't communicate clearly, sorry. We both agree that people have a legal right to be bigots. But you said you don't thing it's wrong to hold racist beliefs. I do think it's wrong even if they never act on it.

I was trying to equate holding racist beliefs with holding the belief that homosexuality is wrong, because those are the exact same thing. I do think racists beliefs are wrong, i meant that people have the right to hold those beliefs, no matter how wrong they are (and they are very wrong). I meant not wrong in that it shouldn`t be illegal , should have clarified. I was also wishing, not eloquently I can see now, that a homophobe and a racist should bew treated the same way, but they are often not.

Hopefully I make sense now!

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't think homosexuality or homosexual behavior are sinful, although the latter might be sinful in the same way that heterosexual behavior might be sinful, when one person sees another person as an object to be used. I had not focused on the Christian Left's statement about homosexuality although I can see how it could be interpreted in a disturbing way.

I don't recall seeing any CL posts on FB having to do with sexual behavior, unless one wants to count posts supportive of reproductive rights. But I don't see everything, and it's very clear that the various admins of the CL have distinctively different posting styles.

Does it bother you now that you have read the front page to The Christian Left's webpage? How do you think a gay person would feel if, after seeing your black hoodie, they were to log on and read what the Christian Left says about homosexuality. Do you think they would feel liberated and content that the Christian Left's view on homosexuality is exactly like the view Jesus had? Are you happy to be represented in that way?

[Minerva]

The Christian Left's take on sexuality doesn't sit right with me, either.

I like the Student Christian Movement of Canada's statement on gender and sexuality: http://scmcanada.org/gendersexuality

The only thing is that they keep referring to "right relations", but they strongly condemn "exploitative, non-consensual, or oppressive relations or expressions " so they could just be referring to consent.

ETA I was wrong, after using Google to search their website, it seems "right relations" means solidarity and has nothing to do with sexual or romantic relationships.

[VVV]

Does it bother you now that you have read the front page to The Christian Left's webpage? How do you think a gay person would feel if, after seeing your black hoodie, they were to log on and read what the Christian Left says about homosexuality. Do you think they would feel liberated and content that the Christian Left's view on homosexuality is exactly like the view Jesus had? Are you happy to be represented in that way?

Could you please clarify Jesus's view on homosexuality? Because I am not aware that he said anything about it at all.

Yes, it bothers me and no, I'm not happy to be represented in that way.

[Guest Anonymous]

Could you please clarify Jesus's view on homosexuality? Because I am not aware that he said anything about it at all.

Yes, it bothers me and no, I'm not happy to be represented in that way.

To the bolded: precisely. According to the traditional Christian Bible, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality.

The Christian Left claim that their religious duty stems from "egalitarian values (and what Jesus Himself said)". And yet at the same time, they appear to think homosexuality so important an issue, despite Jesus's own silence, that they consider it worth noting, on the front page of their website, that the differences between the Right and the Christian Left are "not a matter of different religious ideas, but one of focus".

They don't sound like nice people to me.

[MyName]

I "liked" TCL on fb awhile back.

While I don't agree with every single thing they say or post, or everything their members post...I find it to be a group most closely related to my beliefs, and a great refresher to see fellow Christians that aren't drinking the Palin crazy juice.