OMG, A RATIONAL CHRISTIAN GROUP

[Lillybee]

I was very happy to hear about this group on PBS today.

http://www.thechristianleft.org/

[VVV]

I was very happy to hear about this group on PBS today.

http://www.thechristianleft.org/

I've been a member of that group for awhile now. I even have a black hoodie with "The Christian Left" on it. I was hoping to wear it to the church picnic on Sunday but my daughter was sick and we didn't make it.

[Anxious Girl]

This is... Simply beautiful. I love organizations like this and Catholics for Choice. I only wish that groups and organizations such as these to get more press than the fire and brimstone and conservative republican Christians counterparts do...

[bananacat]

There are many, many rational Christian groups, because Christianity is very diverse and doesn't just include fundies. Yes, fundies try to pretend that they are the only Real, True Christians, but they aren't. At least 70% of the people in the United States are Christian, so Christianity is as diverse as the population in general. Fundies have a good stronghold but are still the minority of Christians in the U.S. It shouldn't be surprising to meet regular mainstream people who are also Christian.

[Curly Girl]

 Re: OMG, A RATIONAL CHRISTIAN GROUP

There are many, many rational Christian groups, because Christianity is very diverse and doesn't just include fundies. Yes, fundies try to pretend that they are the only Real, True Christians, but they aren't. At least 70% of the people in the United States are Christian, so Christianity is as diverse as the population in general. Fundies have a good stronghold but are still the minority of Christians in the U.S. It shouldn't be surprising to meet regular mainstream people who are also Christian.

QFT (as a Canadian, Catholic Christian, I assure you that not all Catholics are off the deep end!)

[Trynn]

It shouldn't be surprising to meet regular mainstream people who are also Christian.

This.

[Wolfie]

I've been a member of that group for awhile now. I even have a black hoodie with "The Christian Left" on it. I was hoping to wear it to the church picnic on Sunday but my daughter was sick and we didn't make it.

I have been involved on FB for a while now too.

[Katie Scarlett]

I have been involved on FB for a while now too.

Me three.

[anniebgood]

Count me as a member of the Christian Left as well. :dance:

[Loveday]

Me three.

And I just 'liked' them on FB. Never heard of this group before tonight, but am liking what I'm reading so far. :clap:

[Chrystal-J]

There are many, many rational Christian groups, because Christianity is very diverse and doesn't just include fundies. Yes, fundies try to pretend that they are the only Real, True Christians, but they aren't. At least 70% of the people in the United States are Christian, so Christianity is as diverse as the population in general. Fundies have a good stronghold but are still the minority of Christians in the U.S. It shouldn't be surprising to meet regular mainstream people who are also Christian.

Ditto. There are many good, decent Christians. Fundies are a radical fringe who make good Christians look bad.

[mockingbird]

I had never heard of Catholics for Choice before this thread! I have been in a kind-of limbo (ha) state about whether I want to stay Catholic or not and that gave me hope that there could be a way I could help work for change from the inside. I just liked them on FB.

[miffy]

Nearly all of my friends are Anglican, Baptist or Catholic. They are all normal!

Its the wacky vocal fundies who feel the need to 'save' people giving the sane people a bad name.

I'm a pro choice, right to die, marry who you like, short skirt wearing, worship whatever god you like, (centre) right wing Anglican(although i'm probably really a quaker).

[Irishy]

This is very encouraging. Lots of rumblings of a reformation in the Catholic Church in Ireland. So many liberal priests have been censured by the Vatican recently.

[Guest Anonymous]

So, after all the fanfare, I think I was expecting something different to what I found.... :P

The website sounds pretty self-righteous about it's humility to me... and it's response to the Right's condemnation of homosexuality is that the Christian Left has different 'emphasis' (not a different view but just an emphasis), because we are "all sinners". Seem to fudge the essential issue there, to me. :?

[ElphabaGalinda]

So, after all the fanfare, I think I was expecting something different to what I found.... :P

The website sounds pretty self-righteous about it's humility to me... and it's response to the Right's condemnation of homosexuality is that the Christian Left has different 'emphasis' (not a different view but just an emphasis), because we are "all sinners". Seem to fudge the essential issue there, to me. :?

That part did bother me...they say it's overemphasized, or that there are more important things, but they never say the right's condemnation of homosexuality is wrong. It sounded more to me like we should focus on all these other bad things, never explicitly saying that homosexuality it not a bad thing. So they emphasize other things...but what do they actually think?

[formergothardite]

It kind of is like they are saying "We think being gay is a sin, but we just don't want to come out and state that."

[SPHASH]

I belong to that group too on Facebook. Also there is Facebook group called "Christians tired of being misrepresented".

[ElphabaGalinda]

It kind of is like they are saying "We think being gay is a sin, but we just don't want to come out and state that."

That is what I thought.

[Guest Anonymous]

That is what I thought.

Yes, this.

[miffy]

It kind of is like they are saying "We think being gay is a sin, but we just don't want to come out and state that."

I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking the way somebody else goes about their life is wrong, we are all free to have our own opinions.

However actually acting on it, thinking that somehow your opinion is most valid & that you should have any kind of ability to stop them from living their life is not on & IMO not a very christian way to behave.

I guess in some ways saying that means i'm a hypocrite.

I find it weird that fundies are SO caught up in the sex lives of other people, whilst also being obsessed with modesty, 'moral' films aimed at the preschool set, not dating, etc.

I wear short skirts & have pre-martial sex. Yet i'm a prude, would never sit in the same room kissing my bf whilst my parents or inlaws kiss too (duggars) & have no interest AT ALL in knowing what other people do together.

[formergothardite]

It is the wording that I find annoying. If you are going to believe that being gay is a sin, just come out in say it and don't devote a whole paragraph to saying it is a sin by not really saying it is a sin. It is like they are trying to cover up the fact that they believe being gay is a sin.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking the way somebody else goes about their life is wrong, we are all free to have our own opinions.

However actually acting on it, thinking that somehow your opinion is most valid & that you should have any kind of ability to stop them from living their life is not on & IMO not a very christian way to behave.

I guess in some ways saying that means i'm a hypocrite.

I find it weird that fundies are SO caught up in the sex lives of other people, whilst also being obsessed with modesty, 'moral' films aimed at the preschool set, not dating, etc.

I wear short skirts & have pre-martial sex. Yet i'm a prude, would never sit in the same room kissing my bf whilst my parents or inlaws kiss too (duggars) & have no interest AT ALL in knowing what other people do together.

So... did you read the thread title and visit the website in question, or are you just sharing random thoughts on life in general? :mrgreen:

Under the heading, "THE CHRISTIAN LEFT WELCOMES YOU" the first page of the website proudly proclaims:

Stemming from egalitarian values (and what Jesus Himself said), adherents of the Christian left consider it part of their religious duty to take actions on behalf of the oppressed.

And yet, in the same breath, apparently:

The Christian Left sometimes differs from other Christian political groups on issues including homosexuality. This is often not a matter of different religious ideas, but one of focus — viewing the prohibitions against killing, or the criticism of concentrations of wealth, as far more important than social issues emphasized by the religious right, such as opposition to active homosexuality.

Lefties tend to accept that we’re all trapped in the human condition, that we all struggle, and that we’re all sinners.

Paul defined the human condition well: Romans 7: 14-25 “We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

The very fact that homosexuality made it onto the front page suggests to me that the group has given the subject a great deal of consideration, and still these anti-oppression banner wavers are directly linking homosexual sex with 'sin', and rolling out the same old same old "Hate the Sin, Love to patronise the 'sinner'" routine. :roll:

I think the passage from Romans is a shitty thing to throw at people for expressing their sexuality according to their natural desires. "For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do." If you want to repeat that to yourself when you catch yourself gossiping or lying, then go ahead. If you want your gay friend to repeat that to herself while she is having an intimate moment with the love of her life, then you can shut the fuck up about being anti-oppression. I don't believe you.

Edited to add a bit.

[miffy]

It is the wording that I find annoying. If you are going to believe that being gay is a sin, just come out in say it and don't devote a whole paragraph to saying it is a sin by not really saying it is a sin. It is like they are trying to cover up the fact that they believe being gay is a sin.

I agree, their viewpoint on same sex marriage & abortion reminds me of Rick Warren's views on these topics. Although he does come right out and say that they are wrong, but he says there are more important things to focus on.

[bananacat]

I do think it's wrong to think homosexuality is wrong. I don't have to like these bigots just because they're more polite about. Sure, they're allowed to have their opinion but I don't have to pat them on the back for it. Frankly I am not trusting of anyone who doesn't base their sexual morality on consent as the top priority.