Why Sex Segregation is Totally Awesome

[GeoBQn]

Or, as I'd like to call this article, "A Load of Tripe."

http://news.yahoo.com/ladies-firsters-- ... women.html

Apparently, rape only happens when men and women attend college together. Students can't concentrate on school when they are in flirting proximity. The Augusta National Golf Club recently accepting women and Jesus possibly having a wife mean that the War on Women isn't real.

[Kaylee]

I think it's pretty telling that she mentioned how unimportant and distracting she felt things like Take Back the Night and talking about date rape and sexism were before she even mentioned the rape statistics.

OMG let's segregate society so I don't have to think about sexism or learn about women's activism. ...Seriously?

[Guest Anonymous]

Hey guys, whatever happened to segregation? Separate but equal, right? Right, you guys? That was great, wasn't it? Guys? You guys? Where are you going?!

[Glass Cowcatcher]

One of the universities in my town is formerly women-only. (It still reflects 'badly' on them because they haven't changed their name since going coed and there is a vastly disproportional female student body.) I'm sure these same problems that the women is talking about existed before coed schools, but didn't actually happen on campus, so I don' t know what she's talking about.

She just seems not to get the college experience, period. It's about figuring out who you are, what you are passionate about, who you are away from your parents. Not just learning Hume and Latin.

[Mango]

x.x

Oh honey, no.

I went to a girls' school for part of my education, and honestly, if I ever had daughters, and I could afford it, I'd probably strongly consider it, because I *do* think it really encouraged more independent thought, participation, contribution, etc in classes compared to public school. There's things about single sex ed that I found really valuable as a kid, and about women-only spaces as an adult (although then you get into some of the weird transphobia like at... oh geez, I can't remember, but it was one of the big Pagan festivals and had an anti-trans stance for women-only rituals)

ANYWAY

All that said, college isn't grade or high school or ritual space. Her arguments are crap reasons for segregation. There's a difference, I just haven't figured out how to articulate it.

[themadapple]

I don't really buy the arguments for keeping men and women segregated in academia. It really only serves to mystify the other gender and perpetuate the old stereotypes. As if the minds of men and those of women are so unrelated that they must be dealt with in entirely different ways.

That said, the only time I've ever found gender segregation preferable - for me, personally - was in high school gym class, the part of my day I always thoroughly despised. My high school offered girls, boys and coed gym classes. On my last requisite semester I chose coed for kicks. Misery.

At one point, during football, I was called a bitch by some rabid guy when I screwed up (as was often, given that I'm not the most athletically inclined.) The gym teacher excused it as a boys will be boys thing and more or less said that I had asked for it, as if it were a privilege for the girls to join the boys. I refused to play for the rest of the unit. I managed to pass anyway, thank goodness. And mind you, this was in 2002 and in a pretty liberal area as well. Ugh.

Edited for forgetting to delete something in the first place...

[CanadianHippie]

Aw man, I can't even imagine how boring my classes would be if they were single sex. No we aren't engaging in any sort of "courtship shenanigans", we are just having a whole lot of fun with various forms of writing.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I don't get the "Having romantic relationships might cause you pain, don't do it!" That's just part of being a grownup, sweetums.

[dawbs]

I don't get the "Having romantic relationships might cause you pain, don't do it!" That's just part of being a grownup, sweetums.

And I'd say in early college and high school, friends caused more pain than boys.

Should we get rid of friendships in school too?

(and, of course, the obvious issue w/ sex segregation preventing romance drama is that it pretends there is no homosexual romance drama :roll: )

[Gil]

I go to a women's college. Sexual assaults still happen. Sexual harassment still happens. Flirting still happens. Virginia Heffernen has no idea what the realities are of single-sex education. There's a lot of good reasons to choose it, but the idea that it somehow keeps you safe isn't one of them.

[Deleted07]

:roll: Really... segregation of the sexes is going to cure everything?

I'm not trying to be all 'what about the mens' or anything, but a personal family friend of our when we were teens, went to a male boarding school and was molested by the other males there... How did segregation work for him? :x

:evil:

[VintageJen1984]

I'm going back to college, and I would go to a women's university if that were an option for me. It's not about being distracted, I'm bi. For one thing, I'm going to be 28 by the time I start back. I look like I'm 20. I'd prefer it if I met people my age who were working careers. (And my school has masters programs and older students, so that's nice.) But it's hard to be taken seriously by older students when you look like you're fresh out of high school, and that's who is going to be hitting on you.

But that's not the real reason I'd prefer a women's school. I have had like close to hundreds of experiences with real jerkface guys with a lot of male privilege who think women exist to serve them and treat women like crap. For instance, total strangers who get your name, introduce themself, and ten minutes later ask you for sex. When you tell them no? They call you a bitch. Like, I don't know your last name, you don't know mine, you're asking me for sex and I'M the bitch? Uh, no. If anyone is a bitch here it's YOU.

I'd just prefer to leave that out of my education experience. And I'm smart enough and I've been around the block enough to know that if I go to a coed school I will deal with that on a not-rare basis.

[SPHASH]

The only thing about education that should be sex-segregated is Phys Ed. For me in Jr High and High the Phys Ed classes were co-ed and it was pretty hard having to play flag football against some guy who starts on the varsity team and was all-conference. JMO.

[uncreative]

The only thing about education that should be sex-segregated is Phys Ed. For me in Jr High and High the Phys Ed classes were co-ed and it was pretty hard having to play flag football against some guy who starts on the varsity team and was all-conference. JMO.

I liked having coed P.E. For the most part, the girls in my class were more athletic than the boys. We tried for four years to have a boys vs. girls basketball game in class. We probably wouldn't have won, but we definitely would have given them a run for their money. :dance:

[Sunnichick31]

The only thing about education that should be sex-segregated is Phys Ed. For me in Jr High and High the Phys Ed classes were co-ed and it was pretty hard having to play flag football against some guy who starts on the varsity team and was all-conference. JMO.

I have to agree with this. I hated PE to begin with, and being with all the jocks sure didn't help.

[LIzzieB]

I went to an all-girls school in high school, and as a shy, fairly vulnerable kid, it worked for me. For me, the benefits were being able to discuss women's issues, such as health, feminism, equal opportunity and sexual harassment in a fairly non-confrontational way. I can't imagine having some of those conversations if half the class had been privileged white males. It did leave many of us pretty clueless on how to deal with boys and men, but I think we all caught up pretty quickly!! You should have seen the reaction when a boy walked on to school grounds - instant distraction for hundreds of girls! We wouldn't have looked twice at a co-ed school.

I think sex segregation has its merits for some people in certain situations. I don't think it protects young women from sexual assault, harassment or distraction. I do think that it is helpful sometimes for everyone to have space to discuss their own issues, and sex in this case is far less relevant than gender or sexuality.

[Gil]

I have to agree with this. I hated PE to begin with, and being with all the jocks sure didn't help.

I would think this would create a lot of problems for gender-variant/transgender kids. I actually think the way we look at PE needs to be massively overhauled in general -- it lends itself to harassment and usually works to further ostracize kids socially. It also tends to screw with scheduling for kids who are particularly committed to academics but have to sacrifice time in their day to go pretend they can throw a football. I think it would work better as a class with different possible offerings where students can self-select the most appropriate class for their schedule and fitness level/interests.

[adayinthelife]

I would think this would create a lot of problems for gender-variant/transgender kids. I actually think the way we look at PE needs to be massively overhauled in general -- it lends itself to harassment and usually works to further ostracize kids socially. It also tends to screw with scheduling for kids who are particularly committed to academics but have to sacrifice time in their day to go pretend they can throw a football. I think it would work better as a class with different possible offerings where students can self-select the most appropriate class for their schedule and fitness level/interests.

I agree, P.E. needs to be changed.

I still remember in high school, being unable to serve a volleyball and the members of my team grumbling and moaning as if we were in the Olympic final. Individual sports always appealed to me, but gym class was always about team sports and made me very anxious and embarrassed because I was always the worst on my team.

[Anxious Girl]

I thought we were living in the 21st century, and era of a new millenium? My bad.

[SPHASH]

I agree, P.E. needs to be changed.

I still remember in high school, being unable to serve a volleyball and the members of my team grumbling and moaning as if we were in the Olympic final. Individual sports always appealed to me, but gym class was always about team sports and made me very anxious and embarrassed because I was always the worst on my team.

I was often picked last in Jr High. I ran Cross Country and Track. We would have physical fitness tests and I beat practically all the girls and some of the guys when we ran the mile so that made me feel good.

I also had an PE teacher who would treat a flag football game like it was the Super Bowl or a softball game like it was the World Series.

Overall I enjoyed team sports as long as I was competing against girls, but not the guys.

[GeoBQn]

I would think this would create a lot of problems for gender-variant/transgender kids. I actually think the way we look at PE needs to be massively overhauled in general -- it lends itself to harassment and usually works to further ostracize kids socially. It also tends to screw with scheduling for kids who are particularly committed to academics but have to sacrifice time in their day to go pretend they can throw a football. I think it would work better as a class with different possible offerings where students can self-select the most appropriate class for their schedule and fitness level/interests.

I actually liked the PE curriculum at my middle school.

Monday--Cardio day. Running laps, tag, circuits, anything to keep our heart rate up for about 20 minutes.

Tuesday--Skill Day. Learning skills for different sports, playing some team sports.

Wednesday--SAFE Day (Strength, Agility, Flexibility, Endurance). Worked on weights and stretches for different muscle groups.

Thursday--Classroom Day. Stayed in street clothes, learned about disease, nutrition, etc.

Friday--Either a large group activity for all the gym classes that period, or making up a day off from earlier that week.

It had a good mix of group and individual activities, and gave a more well-rounded fitness education than just learning a sport.

[themadapple]

I would have loved a phys ed class dedicated to individual fitness. I was just inept at team sports. And like some of the others here, I was considered such an evil, selfish, fucking fuck up if, god forbid, I were to make even the slightest mistake. I did have quite a good serve at volleyball, though, I'll say that for me. Still, the only things in gym I tolerated to enjoyed were things like track, swimming and weights.

[Gil]

I would have preferred individual fitness, too. Sometimes we had that (weight lifting, etc). Our curriculum was in units, so you were sorta at the mercy of whatever week it was. First aid? Cool. Rock climbing? Cool if you weren't heavy, because you were belayed by your peers and you can bet I saw kids getting shit over it. Flag football? Hated it. It was just another opportunity for people to degrade you -- and don't get me started on all the awkward that was changing in locker rooms.

[dairyfreelife]

I'm going back to college, and I would go to a women's university if that were an option for me. It's not about being distracted, I'm bi. For one thing, I'm going to be 28 by the time I start back. I look like I'm 20. I'd prefer it if I met people my age who were working careers. (And my school has masters programs and older students, so that's nice.) But it's hard to be taken seriously by older students when you look like you're fresh out of high school, and that's who is going to be hitting on you.

But that's not the real reason I'd prefer a women's school. I have had like close to hundreds of experiences with real jerkface guys with a lot of male privilege who think women exist to serve them and treat women like crap. For instance, total strangers who get your name, introduce themself, and ten minutes later ask you for sex. When you tell them no? They call you a bitch. Like, I don't know your last name, you don't know mine, you're asking me for sex and I'M the bitch? Uh, no. If anyone is a bitch here it's YOU.

I'd just prefer to leave that out of my education experience. And I'm smart enough and I've been around the block enough to know that if I go to a coed school I will deal with that on a not-rare basis.

Wow, where do you live that you had a lot of men hitting on you and asking for sex then calling you a bitch? I've always gone to coed schools and never once had a man get my name and then ask me for sex. I went to a non-traditional uni with a variety of people from barely 18 to 60. Young partiers going crazy with freedom and men/women with families going back to school to veterens. I worked in retail and dealt with people all the time, including a number of men all ages. Still never had one come up to me, ask my name, introduce themselves and then ask me for sex. I live in a backwards conservative state in appalachia and I've never had it happen or known anyone who's had that happen to them. It's, as a male friend of mine calls it, creep style, to go up to a random woman and ask her for sex. It's just rude and inappropriate. But people don't always hold back as they should. I've had random people ask other inappropriate things before. Had a woman ask me if I was virgin once. No clue who she was. Had other women come up and ask how much I weighed, if I went to that school (no, I'm just carrying these heavy books around because I thought it'd be fun), how old I was and act shocked when I told them, if I was old enough to go to that school (no, I'm a 15yo genius), tell me I should be a fairy for halloween cause I'm so small and would look so cute (a random person told me this). It was all women who asked me inappropriate questions. Suddenly, I like being coed more and being with men. Besides the guys who went out of their way to open the door for one woman and then slammed the door in my face, they've not really been rude to me. Hmm...

I think in some cases, single gender is fine, but overall I'm not a fan. Men and women have to learn to get along and deal with each other because in the real world they will be dealing with each other. So what if crushes develop, most will fizzle out as fast they start anyway at young ages. Single gender doesn't stop sexual crime because men and women will still deal with each other in the workplace. It shouldn't happen at all, but it does and crime can happen with the same gender as well.

:roll: Really... segregation of the sexes is going to cure everything?

I'm not trying to be all 'what about the mens' or anything, but a personal family friend of our when we were teens, went to a male boarding school and was molested by the other males there... How did segregation work for him? :x

:evil:

No, you should mention the men because male rape isn't discussed much in society, but it does happen. Sadly, it's known that boarding schools (particularly male) have had serious problems with molestation and rape by other men. Men do rape other men. It's a power/control issue. Happens a lot in jails as well. Segregation doesn't prevent sex crime. The writer of this article is naive.

I will say I hated gym in school, but it was all the athletes, men and women that were all "you suck at volleyball" or whatever. Maybe they segregate the sport players and non sport players regardless of gender in gym classes instead.

[Gil]

I think in some cases, single gender is fine, but overall I'm not a fan. Men and women have to learn to get along and deal with each other because in the real world they will be dealing with each other. So what if crushes develop, most will fizzle out as fast they start anyway at young ages. Single gender doesn't stop sexual crime because men and women will still deal with each other in the workplace. It shouldn't happen at all, but it does and crime can happen with the same gender as well.

Here's the thing (and part of why I chose a women's college): men and women having to learn to get along and deal with each other often turns into women having to make concessions to patriarchal culture. In coeducational classrooms, it's been pretty established that there's often inherent bias towards male students and that women in a coeducational environment often fall victim to stereotype threat and let men lead while taking a more passive role. Women in single-sex institutions are also more likely to pursue traditionally male-dominated fields; my school produces more female chemists than any other college in the country -- not more than any other women's school but more, period. In a women's college, almost all leadership roles (save for female-to-male or genderqueer students) are taken by women. Discussions are driven by women and bias is at least somewhat tempered. In a University of Essex study, undergrads were divided into coed, all-male, and all-female classes. Male students did fine in either environment. Women in all-female classes had grades an average of 7.5% higher. 3% of women graduating high school go onto women's school's; 30% of congresswomen and 20% of female CEOs attended a women's college.

I don't know anyone who selected a women's college because they thought it would keep them safe, for the record. Male guests are also a significant presence on-campus and I'd say most of the women on this campus are, at some point, involved in romantic/sexual relations.

TL;DR -- it's not that they're safer or they're going to contain women. It's that they give women advantages that are harder to find in a coed environment.

Also, I don't want to insult any student/graduates of coed institutions. This is simply a remark on why same-sex education, especially for women, is still valid and acceptable.