Women are the weaker vessel

[dairyfreelife]

Jolene stirs up some wtf on her blog by telling us that she learned her husband is stronger than her in three different ways.

Physically, he's stronger and here's a pathetic an example of how he's stronger than her:

The nurse looked at me and told me to just get some more rest, and my man said,

"Do you want a trashcan to throw up in?"

Apparently the color on my face didn't scream supermodel.

I politely declined his offer of help as usual. I proceeded to get out of bed and my Beloved came to my side to help me get up.

"I'm fine," I said. And as soon as the word 'fine' came out of my mouth so did a bunch of vomit all over his shoes!

I obviously wasn't fine.

I was starting to learn that physically speaking he was stronger than I was especially as we moved into the next 10 years of my own chronic illnesses. Weak and feeble were the words that would have described me best.

So because she had a terrible illness that made her feeble she's automatically weaker physically than her husband? And if HE was the one with the illness instead...would that make him a weaker vessel?

Being a small woman myself, my boyfriend IS physically bigger and stronger overall than I am. He's also a former marine so he's got some arm muscle on him. He's taller and weighs more and that's okay. However, there are definitely some women in relationships that are a lot of stronger physically then the men.

They are also stronger Mentally, which gets the biggest wtf of all:

He could handle the financial affairs of our business and personal accounts much better than I could.

Okay...that's fine, but I know that between my current bf and myself, I'm WAY better with finances. He's a spender and if he wants something, he'll buy it. Having had to budget and rub pennies together to make ends meet, I'm far more logical with finances. I shop around for the best deals and know how to stretch a dollar better because of my circumstances. He can do the finances, but struggles more with a budget than I do.

my man was just so much more level-headed and mentally tougher than I was.

I think I proved Jolene wrong that all men are level headed than I am. Now my bf is a tough guy. He's been overseas in the war and he's mentally strong because of his marine background, but he's not always mentally tougher. In some ways, I am mentally stronger. I tend to think about things a helluva lot more than he does and I'm the one who usually stops and says "wait a minute, let's think about this a little more..." On the flip side, he's a rock when it comes to nerves. I have anxiety issues and he tends to keep me more level headed in that aspect. I keep him level headed in the planning and thinking ahead/thinking through things.

And last we get the Emotionally stronger:

He handled things with much more composure than I ever would. I'd just get off the phone and cry or throw an angry fit over the situation. He, on the other hand would be very diplomatic, yet firm. I saw time and time again how his emotions were much more controlled than mine were.

As said above, in some ways, my bf is emotionally "tougher" than I am, but in other ways, I am tougher. He gets road rage quicker than I do and I'm not as quick to get aggravated with work situations. My anxiety and secondary depression issues are where I'm emotionally "weaker", but it balances out. Everyone struggles with emotions triumphing logic at times. It's not a "woman" thing, it's a human thing.

4 Ways to Help Your Husband Dwell with You

-Communicate to your man that you need his help. I know, I know, you'll have to swallow your pride on this one.

-Let him know you welcome his help and appreciate it.

-Let him intervene with your problems but do not criticize him for the way he is handling the situation. If you let him know he's not doing it right, be prepared for him to stop helping you.

-If you've developed a relationship with your husband where you are doing everything and he no longer offers to help you, then eat some humble pie. Wave your white, 'I surrender flag', and let him know you need him. A little bit of honesty, humility, and sincerity can go a long way in your marriage.

My bf would probably run if I constantly "needed" him or if he had to intervene in all my problems. He's probably wonder if he's dating a grown woman or a child.

joleneengle.org/2012/07/why-bible-calls-me-weaker-vessel.html

[2xx1xy1JD]

People read her drivel?

I think we can call this the Ego-centric Fallacy. A few selected anecdotes from one person do not constitute proof of the nature of 50% of the 7 billion people on the planet.

Many people are in relationships where they have complementary personalities to the other person - you know, opposite attract. It's not about being stronger or weaker - it's about being different, and working together to make those differences something positive instead of a source of conflict. The thing is - many of those differences aren't necessary "female" or "male". Take neat-freak vs. creative clutter - I know plenty of men and women who fit into each category. Same with Type A vs. Type B personalities, or saver vs. spender, or introvert vs. extrovert, or calm vs. energetic, or logical vs. emotional, or expressing emotion vs. keeping it inside.

In my own marriage (which is obviously unique and not meant to represent All Marriages In the World), I'm the introvert and he's the extrovert. I will sit down, analyze things and think them through logically, while hubby will be fired up with energy and have more gut reactions.

[Terrie]

It's not the vessel, but its contents that are important.

[Olive Plant]

Jolene stirs up some wtf on her blog by telling us that she learned her husband is stronger than her

As said above, in some ways, my bf is emotionally "tougher" than I am, but in other ways, I am tougher. He gets road rage quicker than I do and I'm not as quick to get aggravated with work situations. My anxiety and secondary depression issues are where I'm emotionally "weaker", but it balances out. Everyone struggles with emotions triumphing logic at times. It's not a "woman" thing, it's a human thing.

My boyfriend is definitely not emotionally tougher than me. He might be in certain situations, but overall, no way. He is physically strong but he struggles with depression. Anything from a perceived slight to him spending too much money can trigger his depression. He knows he over-reacts, but he can't help it (or at least he hasn't figured out how). Also, dairyfreelife, like you mentioned, I'm way smarter with money. He spends whatever he has. Combined with his penchant for depression, that's bad news. Otherwise he's a pretty manly man and I'm not holding his particular weaknesses against him. I just want him to continue to get therapy (like I would if he had a chronic illness).

More than half the time, I'm the one holding him, telling him it's going to be OK. Am I still the weaker vessel?

[Olive Plant]

I should also mention that my boyfriend has flat-out told me I'm smarter than him. I would agree with that. I have to restrain myself when we argue or I'd tear him apart intellectually, and he's already kind of sensitive about it. I know I've been smarter than some (not all) of the men I've dated. Probably the majority. So to recap: I'm generally mentally, emotionally, and financially stronger. Since almost nothing I do has to do with raw physical strength, these are the things that count.

Now, one could argue that men and women should only date/marry those of the same intelligence/financial habits, but it doesn't always work out that way.

[NerdyHil]

It's not the vessel, but its contents that are important.

Yes. Yes to this. Well said.

[Jezebel]

Jolene stirs up some wtf on her blog by telling us that she learned her husband is stronger than her in three different ways.

Physically, he's stronger...

Being a small woman myself, my boyfriend IS physically bigger and stronger overall than I am. He's also a former marine so he's got some arm muscle on him. He's taller and weighs more and that's okay. However, there are definitely some women in relationships that are a lot of stronger physically then the men.

Physically, I'm much stronger than both the young guy with cerebral palsy and the frail 91-year-old man I work with at one of my volunteer gigs. I had a boyfriend a few years ago who had lost a lot of strength and mobility due to injuries in a car accident; I was definitely stronger than him. So does this make me superior to all these men? Or does the "physical weakness = subordinate status" equation apply only to women?

They are also stronger Mentally, which gets the biggest wtf of all:

I have yet to be in a relationship where I was the less-savvy of the two when it came to finances. I'm a very logical, analytical personality type, and I like doing research to get the best deals on consumer goods and deciding which investments to make. Even in my younger days, when I was much more impulsive and emotional, I still made some really good, strategic, long-range decisions based on logic.

The man I loved most was utterly incompetent when it came to money. That's why I didn't marry him--hitching myself to his ongoing financial trainwreck would have had terrible consequences for me. He wasn't going to change, I knew that taking on the role of Responsible One was only going to make me stressed out and resentful, so when the marriage question came up I declined (and he actually agreed that I was right to do so).

By the way, the Proverbs 31 woman these complementarians love to go on about obviously had her act together when to came to finances. She was, in fact, the major economic player in her household, which she ran not only as a family, but as a moneymaking venture ("She considers a field, and buys it"). Maybe Jolene, and her sister "weaker vessel" defenders ought to actually read that chapter and follow that example, rather than pay shallow lip-service to it.

And last we get the Emotionally stronger:

But here's the thing: emotional control can be learned. It's not easy, but yes, you can learn to deal with feelings as they arise and not throw angry fits.

I had a serious rage problem when I was younger. It caused me a lot of grief and trouble. I decided I didn't want to be like that anymore, and gradually, by increasing my self-awareness, recognizing when rage was being triggered, and learning how to talk myself down, I was able to eliminate it. I also had to recognize what my rage triggers were, and where they had come from, which meant revisiting my unpleasant childhood and confronting some ugly things I didn't want to admit about myself.

And frankly, crying from frustration in private after getting off the phone, is not in itself weakness. Nor is venting your anger and frustration to a willing listener. There have been situations recently when I had to stay cool, calm, and collected--but believe me, when I got on the phone to my mom afterward she heard ALL about it! Have those situations brought up strong emotions? Sure! But having those emotions isn't a problem--as long as I don't react to the situation emotionally.

People who know me well, who have seen me in tense situations, think I'm "tough" because I just do what needs to be done and don't get sucked into other people's drama. I've also been accused of being "cold" by people who thought they could provoke me into an emotional meltdown--and failed. I wasn't always so cool and controlled, though; I had to teach myself how to be.

And then there's the problem far too many men seem to have, where they give the illusion of emotional control because they're so cut off from their emotions. It's practically an archetype: the guy who can go to Hell and back a dozen times without crumpling, but cannot manage the finer points of interpersonal relationships. You get men who see women's emotional expression as signs of weakness or childishness, who are empathy-deficient, and who dismiss others' emotional hurt by being "the voice of reason." And when they do feel emotions, they're distorted--instead of love, they feel infatuation, jealousy, and possessiveness. Simple annoyance, disagreement, or disappointment end up expressed as punitive rage. These aren't "strong" men; they're emotionally crippled men. And they inevitably end up with women who are cut off from their own sense of power, efficacy, and competence, who are terrified of dealing with the world. I see so much of that on these fundie blogs, explained away as the "natural" order of things.

-If you've developed a relationship with your husband where you are doing everything and he no longer offers to help you, then eat some humble pie. Wave your white, 'I surrender flag', and let him know you need him. A little bit of honesty, humility, and sincerity can go a long way in your marriage.

Ha! Suit yourself, Jolene. But were I ever married, and my husband stopped shouldering his share of the work and left it all to me, he could go eat his own damned humble pie--in his new bachelor apartment.

I want, expect, and deserve a partner in the fullest sense of the word. I'm willing to be that kind of partner for somebody, and will accept nothing less in return. And yes, honesty, humility, and sincerity do go a long way--but they have to come from both parties. And in a superior-subordinate relationship model, guess which party ends up giving the unequal share, and having to eat the most humble pie (which is tough to do through gritted teeth)?

[browngrl]

In Jolene's case she may well be the "weaker" one in her marriage. I will concede that point. However, why does she think she can generalize her problems to the rest of the female population? Not all of us become all weak and dizzy when confronted with problems. I would dare to say that most women just get on with things most of the time.

[YPestis]

Men are, in general, physically weaker than women. Fundies than jump from that to the idea women are also mentally weaker and emotionally unstable. They take the worst stereotypes of women and compare it to the best stereotypes of men. I just don't understand why fundies can't see all character traits can be seen in both sexes.

In my relationship, my SO and I are both fairly intelligent. He is more emotional in his decisions and I'm....not as much. Yeah, that doesn't jive well with fundie stereotypes but that's how just how our personality works. A good marriage plays to each other's strength. Instead of pratting about which gender should be better at what, we try to give each person the job they are most suited to. My SO is better with tracking bills and I hate dealing with them, so he does them. I am better at budgeting so I deal with that. We both hate house chores so we share them equally. It's not that hard to have an equal marriage! Fundies make it sound like marriages won't work if the guy cleans and girl works. We get these weird posts where otherwise intelligent women write about how helpless they are and otherwise smart men talk preen about how manly they are. It makes me wonder how much of that is just talk. How many women actually follow their advice to always acquiesce to their men? Never talk back? Always agree, even in the face of really dumb decisions? It's boggles to mind.

[jenny_islander]

Yet another bad translation. "Weaker vessel," or so people who can read the original tell me, should read "vessel made of finer material," which would naturally be more delicate and expensive: glass, alabaster, etc. So, "Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel (sic), and as being heirs" means, basically, "Don't take your wife for granted; she isn't furniture." Instead it gets used as a clobber verse to shut women out of the religious community in which they are supposed to be fellow heirs to the Kingdom, and turn them into drudges at home.

[Anxious Girl]

It's not the vessel, but its contents that are important.

This is awesome! :clap:

[JaChelle Sugar]

Kick some dumbass headships in the balls and see how stronger vessels they are then!

[MissA]

This woman sounds like she was pretty dang weird before realizing her intrinsic frailty. If you are lifting something heavy and somebody nearby asks if you want a hand, who doesn't say "sure, thank you?" Who, feeling like they are about to puke, doesn't accept a bucket out of some misguided sense of pride? Admittedly I might not want to be handed across a river, but then, I probably wouldn't fall in, not being Bella Swan from "Twilight."

Frankly this sounds like a racket to stick your husband with a lot of unpleasant tasks. "Oh, honey, can you use your big strong arms to carry the trash to the curb? And then sit down and pay the bills? My wittle old bwain finds them just too, too stwessfull."