Unplanned pregnancy? - Unplanned Joy!

[Mela99]

I get the whole "baby will change your life and add happiness" etc, etc, but I really don't think joy would be my reaction at this point in my life. I think hysteria would be more appropriate. OT, but as of right now, I am the ONLY woman on my dad's side of the family who didn't get knocked up AT LEAST TWICE before marriage. Nuh-uh. I am not continuing that illustrious legacy. I'm also the only one to go on to further education, so I'm looking pretty good right now.

I have one year left of law school, and I'm trying to work out internships and potential employers. My boyfriend and I bought our first house two months ago. We intend to pay for our own wedding and travel and enjoy a year or two of hedonistic newlywed bliss.

I hate that these types of people assume the joy of said bellyfruit will automatically overpower and outweigh anything else that could be happening in your life right now. It could ruin a chance to do something ELSE that will drastically change and enhance your life. What if you got pregnant on the eve of joining the military or going off to Harvard or backpacking around the world for a year or an internship at an incredibly prestigious firm? The way I see it, I have to do some of these things so that when the time comes, myself and the hubs can give that child the best head start in life we can.

I would be devastated if it happened now. We'd have to stop using our extra money to fixing up our house. So long to the chunks of paychecks that go into the wedding fund. I could kiss an internship goodbye. It would probably kill my parents. Who knows if I could finish school.

Why should I be utterly full of joy?

It kills me that these turds are the same ones who go around slut-shaming any female with a child out of wedlock, then turn around and expect them to sing and dance the cha-cha with a breast bump grinning like a mental patient.

You don't get two bites at this apple.

[kayray]

Sorry, an unplanned pregnancy for me would definitely be a planned abortion.

That would have NOTHING to do with not having emotional support or financial resources and EVERYTHING to do with not wanting kids, ever. I am child free. A baby would not bring me joy. The end.

I hate how these anti-choice people presume to know the reasons others make the choices they do, and believe that every pregnancy is an automatic blessing. I never presume how a woman feels about her pregnancy until she tells me herself. I ALSO hate when they refer to an abortion as "violence against the women". I had an abortion. I was 16, and over 16 years later I still thank myself for making that decision so many years ago. It was most definitely not that bad or traumatic. And it sure as hell beats the violence (in my view) of childbirth (either vaginal or a c-section) and the lifetime of parenting that follows.

[Mind UR own uteress]

Women deserve better than infection, such as the type you will get with a botched back-street abortion should the be made illegal.

[emmiedahl]

No woman should be coerced. But if abortion is made illegal, we will certainly be coerced and forced into difficult choices.

If I got pregnant right now, it would ruin my life. We would be one person too many for the subsidized apartment where we live (=homeless). We are already running a deficit every month that is covered by student loans, and I would be faced with more expenses and less ability to work full time. I would have to put off applying for medical school at least a year. We have an almost fool-proof method of birth control, but what if it is not enough? The thought has occurred to me. It has nothing to do with my love of babies or my desire to be a mother. At this point one more child is just not that much more work, although it would mean less attention for my 5 already born children. I won't even get into all the health problems I have had in pregnancy and delivery.

Seriously, these are the real reasons that many women choose abortion. Simple pragmatic reality. It is not about choosing to love another child, it is about keeping roofs over heads and continuing to move your family budget into the black.

If we want less abortion, we need to make birth control available and free to every woman and girl. We need to offer cradle-to-grave social programs so no woman wonders whether she is bringing her child into a life of poverty and misery. Support services for mothers in school and training programs, free childcare. If I got pregnant right now, my only choice would be between 5 living children and one unborn one. We need more choices. Not less.

[YPestis]

Abortion is an emotional issue and I respect those that feel abortion is morally wrong. I just don't want to make it illegal. It will only mean more back alley abortions, more women forced into poverty, more abused children. My SO is Catholic, raised in the church and pro-lifer. However, even he feels making abortion illegal will only force women to drastic and dangerous action. We'll only end up with dead mothers. He's big on making birth control available for everyone. In his view, sterilization and birth control is the surest way to prevent abortions. I consider myself a strong pro-choicer. Aside from the stated medical reasons for keeping abortion legal, I am a strong advocate of protecting a woman's right to do as she will with her body. No one should be forced to gestate for nine month. No one should be forced to undergo the trauma of childbirth. No one woman should be turned into an incubator.

[smores]

Am I the only one assuming if someone has decided to tell people they're pregnant, they're probably not getting an abortion? I usually congratulate people when they tell me they're pregnant.

ETA: I am also from the South, where people just don't talk about abortion, I am sure that influences it somewhat.

[Minerva]

Am I the only one assuming if someone has decided to tell people they're pregnant, they're probably not getting an abortion? I usually congratulate people when they tell me they're pregnant.

ETA: I am also from the South, where people just don't talk about abortion, I am sure that influences it somewhat.

From my experience at least, you'll only have to treat cautiously around pregnancy announcements when it's a close friend. Having an upcoming abortion is not something most people announce to everyone they hang out with, even in really progressive circles like mine, though I could see myself being that one person who tells everyone.

[ElphabaGalinda]

From my experience at least, you'll only have to treat cautiously around pregnancy announcements when it's a close friend. Having an upcoming abortion is not something most people announce to everyone they hang out with, even in really progressive circles like mine, though I could see myself being that one person who tells everyone.

Yes I'd only be cautious around a close friend. My friend who did have an abortion and only told 3 people including her boyfriend, and one of them was me and one was another friend. I'd say there are about 5 friends and maybe my sister who I'd be cautious around, because if they did choose an abortion they'd probably tell me, so just in case. But just a casual friend/acquaintance would be different. Though I'd still start with how are you, because none of my friends are at an age where they'd be trying to get pregnant, and I can't think of anyone i'm friends with who would get pregnant on purpose. And how are you after any shock or surprise that might also make you physically not feel well seems appropriate.

[anniebgood]

She also had some nasty shit to say about Sandra Fluke, too: http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/03 ... hollywood/

She also has an unacknowledged addiction problem which has caused problems with the show, the producers and the co stars. It creates a case of foot in the mouth disease that spreads from show to show and her bookings on daytimers to promote the new season have dropped.

[smores]

Yes I'd only be cautious around a close friend. My friend who did have an abortion and only told 3 people including her boyfriend, and one of them was me and one was another friend. I'd say there are about 5 friends and maybe my sister who I'd be cautious around, because if they did choose an abortion they'd probably tell me, so just in case. But just a casual friend/acquaintance would be different. Though I'd still start with how are you, because none of my friends are at an age where they'd be trying to get pregnant, and I can't think of anyone i'm friends with who would get pregnant on purpose. And how are you after any shock or surprise that might also make you physically not feel well seems appropriate.

Ah, I am only in my mid 20s too, so I have not yet experienced anyone getting pregnant (especially not any close friend/sibling) ... except my own surprise pregnancy. :lol:

[CanadianHippie]

Sorry, an unplanned pregnancy for me would definitely be a planned abortion.

At this point in my life, same here though for a different reason. As much as I love kids and want kids of my own (probably more than one or two even), I am struggling just to support myself right now and a pregnancy would only make that harder.

What gets me is that as much as I've wanted children for as long as I could remember, I remember reasoning when I was still in high school that I wouldn't be able to afford a child at that point in time and it would be very difficult to improve my financial situation later on if I did have one; something that most of these "pro"-lifers can't seem to wrap their brains around.

[JesusFightClub]

Pretty much want to QFT this whole thread. A pregnancy for me would be an abortion, too.

I can't support a child on a massive overdraft, serious debt and scavenging food from bins. As well I have health problems and if I did have the kid I'd be one of those "problem families" that everyone tut-tuts about. I'd have to shoplift to support us (which I can do, but have not used that skill for years) and we would sleep on a different sofa each night because you can be damn sure I wouldn't be able to pay the rent. Or we would move into council homeless accommodation, and believe you me, you do not want to do that (especially with a small baby). At any rate, I'd lose my job.

If the dad was in the picture, unless we were earning ££££££, that would make it worse financially. As the one guy I like is unemployed and on housing benefit, and I'm in low paid work I'd have to give up, nothing about raising a kid is looking good.

I do not get why QF families don't see this. Would it really be a good idea to bring a child into the world to two unemployed parents who eat from bins most nights of the week, the mum would have to nick stuff to survive and the family are staying in council temporary accommodation? What "blessing" would it be to child or parents?

[honeybooboochild]

"women deserve better than abortion"??

bullshit.

you know what? women deserve better than to be shamed into keeping a fetus they don't want or can't take care of. children deserve better than to be raised in an unhealthy environment and having a lifetime of resentment all around. i'm watching a kid grow up in those circumstances, and it's beyond fucked up. the stigma behind abortion is fucking up lives.

[luckystone]

She also has an unacknowledged addiction problem which has caused problems with the show, the producers and the co stars. It creates a case of foot in the mouth disease that spreads from show to show and her bookings on daytimers to promote the new season have dropped.

Wow, what a psycho.

Addiction problem? Where did you hear that? I like the show but I know Heaton sucks in real life which affects my enjoyment somewhat.

Oddly, the teenage girl on the show also has a twitter, and she seems very liberal and feminist.

[Katiebug]

Can I admit that in college I was a member of Feminists For Life? :oops: I got the magazine and everything. At the time (over 10 years ago) their focus seemed to be less on outlawing abortion and more on improving support for women experiencing unwanted pregnancy. Because I had always wanted to be a mother, I struggled to understand the concept that some women simply do not; for me motherhood was always a question of "when" and not "if" and therefore if the "when" came unexpectedly I'd have simply found a way to make it happen. Because of that I genuinely didn't understand why someone might terminate in the event of a birth control failure. I was basically imposing my own feelings onto other women's choices, and I can recognize that now, while I didn't at 20. The FFL position against abortion for health reasons or fatal fetal defects has never sat well with me, and I didn't renew my membership after that year. It hasn't stopped them from keeping me on their stupid email list, though! :roll: They've gotten further away from their original message, too.

Ironically, actually becoming a mother has made me more pro-choice for everyone and more pro-life for myself. I love motherhood and children, and only way I'd terminate would be if my life was in danger and there was no way to get the baby to viability. That said, that's the decision I've made for myself and my choices and value decisions should have no bearing on what is legal for other women to choose. Being a parent is hard and no one should be forced into it unwillingly - on a scale of relative morality I think it's preferable to end a pregnancy early than to have a baby who will be neglected or abused by a mother who never really wanted it.

There are very real structural issues in colleges/universities and in the workforce for women who become pregnant. There are women who would like to continue a pregnancy, but feel that abortion is their only option because the on-campus daycare is reserved for faculty and staff only, their school doesn't offer family housing resources, and their student medical insurance doesn't cover prenatal care. There are women working in low-paying jobs who feel forced to abort because they have no health insurance, no maternity leave, and no resources. There are also women who are highly educated and early in a professional career who know that having a baby at the "wrong" time will derail their training or career because corporate America offers very little in the way of temporary pauses or lateral moves for high-potential individuals. While I am pro-choice, I don't want women feeling forced into abortions because it seems like there's no other viable option with respect to education or work. That almost seems like a form of societal coercion.

[2xx1xy1JD]

So this came up on a 'friends' facebook page this morning:

I was curious because it was attached to the 'feminists for life' movement, so I went looking about the cause thinking it was pro-choice. However I found out its actually a pro-life statement, which I was a bit confused about, not thinking people who call themselves feminists would also be anti-choice. As I read up on it, I was so angry to hear Patricia Heaton (Everybody Loves Raymond star) words on 'unplanned pregnancy'.

"Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy."

So basically suck it up and enjoy the fact you're having a baby... even if you're dying from it, or have been raped? No I don't think so.

The site goes on about how "abortion has completely failed as a social policy designed to aid women. It is a reflection that we have failed women — and that women have had to settle for far less than they need and deserve."

I really don't understand this pro-life statement wrapped up in a feminist spin! What are your thoughts about it?

[link=http://www.feministsforlife.org/news/WDBSMF150.pdf]HERE[/link] is a link to a PDF from the feminists for life website, and here is a quick blurb:

So here's a novel idea:

Make sure that all women have a REAL choice by ensuring adequate resources to deal with domestic violence, increasing penalties if the victim is pregnant, ensuring that a woman experiencing violence can access housing and support and child care, making sure that someone's job is protected during pregnancy, strengthening child support laws, ensuring all women have access to medical care, etc. You could also have, instead of "crisis pregnancy centers" that are mere propaganda factories, real services where pregnant women could meet with non-judgmental social workers who can help them with their concerns.

[Minerva]

I'm another whose unplanned pregnancy would be a planned abortion. I probably wouldn't be able to afford a child right now, and I probably would have to put my dreams on hold for them, but I've never even thought that through because I simply don't. Want. A. Child.

Would having kid 9 months from now bring joy into my life? Undoubtedly. But not doing so would also result in me being happy, and the difference between the two is that being childfree is what I actually want, for now and probably for good. I know full well that I could easily be happier 9 months from now with a newborn than without, but I'd still choose the less happy path because it's what I want. I know some of our fundy lurkers are probably noting the frequent use of the words "I want" in this rant and thinking "it's not all about you." Well who else would be affected by my decision? I'd be the only human being with a functional cerebral cortex in the equation, so who else? I don't owe it to anyone to make them exist. There'd be a lot more Michelle Duggars in the world if that line of reasoning were valid.

That's not to mention the fact, which anti-choice people generally choose to ignore when waxing sentimental about the joys of motherhood, that there's a risk of things not turning out alright whenever you choose to have a kid, and this risk is way higher when it's an unplanned pregnancy to an impoverished university student. Hell, even planned pregnancies to 30-year-olds are a risk - my own mother was very enthusiastic about having children, but it messed her up emotionally and our lives were all chaotic and unpleasant.

[valsa]

While I am pro-choice, I don't want women feeling forced into abortions because it seems like there's no other viable option with respect to education or work. That almost seems like a form of societal coercion.

While I think there should be more options with regard to social supports, employment, and continuing education, I don't consider any of that coercion. It's just... reality.

As an example, I have social anxiety and there's nothing I'd love more than to be able to work part time, since being at work for 8-10 hours a day puts my anxiety through the roof. However, I know that I can't do that and still be able to pay the bills. I don't consider that coercion any more than a woman who has an abortion because she's knows having another child will make her unable to pay her bills.

[emmiedahl]

While I think there should be more options with regard to social supports, employment, and continuing education, I don't consider any of that coercion. It's just... reality.

As an example, I have social anxiety and there's nothing I'd love more than to be able to work part time, since being at work for 8-10 hours a day puts my anxiety through the roof. However, I know that I can't do that and still be able to pay the bills. I don't consider that coercion any more than a woman who has an abortion because she's knows having another child will make her unable to pay her bills.

If conservatives really felt that pragmatic considerations were coercing women into abortion, they would be supporting free childcare, better social welfare programs, things that would remove that coercion and give women real choices.

eta: they don't want to give women a means of parenting, they want them to have a bed and food while they incubate a baby for a nice Christian family to adopt. Let's be real-real here.

[valsa]

If conservatives really felt that pragmatic considerations were coercing women into abortion, they would be supporting free childcare, better social welfare programs, things that would remove that coercion and give women real choices.

Very true. For people who are supposedly so interested in saving babies, they certainly don't support public policies that would allow more women to continue with their pregnancies, nor do they approve of funding/teaching methods of stopping the conceptions from happening in the first place.

It's almost as if they actually care more about forcing women to give birth than saving fetuses from being destroyed...

[emmiedahl]

Ideally, a woman with an unplanned pregnancy would be given a small but sufficient income while she stayed home with the baby until she felt comfortable getting back in the workforce. Then, training or education if needed and free childcare until she could afford it herself.

I know some people would "take advantage" and never go back to work, but then the abortions would be less common in cases where economics are actually the main consideration. I suspect most people actually want an education and a career; it would be interesting to see how many families flourished with just a bit more safety net. Of course there would still be abortions, but there have been and always will be. Countries with better social services have fewer abortions and conservatives need to stop ignoring the fact that their own policies are contributing to the abortion rate.

There is nothing wrong with abortion and I think it should be a choice. If you have no means of supporting a child, your choices are limited. I just :o at the irony that everyone wants women to go through with pregnancies but no one wants to pay for the resulting child.

[desertvixen]

you know what? women deserve better than to be shamed into keeping a fetus they don't want or can't take care of. children deserve better than to be raised in an unhealthy environment and having a lifetime of resentment all around.

QFT.

Ironically, actually becoming a mother has made me more pro-choice for everyone and more pro-life for myself. I love motherhood and children, and only way I'd terminate would be if my life was in danger and there was no way to get the baby to viability. That said, that's the decision I've made for myself and my choices and value decisions should have no bearing on what is legal for other women to choose. Being a parent is hard and no one should be forced into it unwillingly - on a scale of relative morality I think it's preferable to end a pregnancy early than to have a baby who will be neglected or abused by a mother who never really wanted it.

I don't think there's anything ironic about it. Until you have gone through the process of pregnancy and childbirth (which is not always 100% wonderful even when you want to be pregnant), I think it's difficult to understand how it affects every single aspect of your life. Then, of course, after you have the kid, it's not like you'll really get a break or ever have a break from judgmental jerks telling you how to live your life. If you are a woman, you're probably doing something wrong in society's eyes.

While I am pro-choice, I don't want women feeling forced into abortions because it seems like there's no other viable option with respect to education or work. That almost seems like a form of societal coercion.

The work and daycare situation in this country is laughable. It needs a lot of work. And why wouldn't we want people to get an education and make it less likely that they will continue to need support services that many of these people so profess to hate?

eta: they don't want to give women a means of parenting, they want them to have a bed and food while they incubate a baby for a nice Christian family to adopt. Let's be real-real here.

Depressing but spot-on, emmie.