Unplanned pregnancy? - Unplanned Joy!

[Deleted07]

So this came up on a 'friends' facebook page this morning:

I was curious because it was attached to the 'feminists for life' movement, so I went looking about the cause thinking it was pro-choice. However I found out its actually a pro-life statement, which I was a bit confused about, not thinking people who call themselves feminists would also be anti-choice. As I read up on it, I was so angry to hear Patricia Heaton (Everybody Loves Raymond star) words on 'unplanned pregnancy'.

"Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy."

So basically suck it up and enjoy the fact you're having a baby... even if you're dying from it, or have been raped? No I don't think so.

The site goes on about how "abortion has completely failed as a social policy designed to aid women. It is a reflection that we have failed women — and that women have had to settle for far less than they need and deserve."

I really don't understand this pro-life statement wrapped up in a feminist spin! What are your thoughts about it?

[link=http://www.feministsforlife.org/news/WDBSMF150.pdf]HERE[/link] is a link to a PDF from the feminists for life website, and here is a quick blurb:

Women experiencing an unplanned pregnancy often end up experiencing the tragic violence of abortion. No "Choice" for Most. Statistics gathered by abortion supporters reveal that the primary reasons women with unintended pregnancies turn to abortion are lack of financial resources and lack of emotional support. Many women also say they felt abandoned, or even coerced into having an abortion. Despite child support laws, some fathers threaten to withhold support. Domestic violence against single pregnant women at the hands of a boyfriend is being reported with greater frequency. Coercion crosses all socio-economic classes.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I really don't understand this pro-life statement wrapped up in a feminist spin! What are your thoughts about it?

HERE is a link to a PDF from the feminists for life website, and here is a quick blurb:

My thoughts? Screw this shit, man.

They act like popping out a child is going to magically heal the woman of being raped or whatever. No. More then likely she's going to have a very difficult time, at the very least, bonding with that child.

I find the idea the bolded part especially offensive. A pregnant women is just as likely to be abused by a husband as a boyfriend--whether the parent is married is not relevant--and this seems to indicate that they think the woman somehow deserves to be beaten for getting pregnant out of wedlock. And, just because there are child support laws does not mean they will be enforced or the amount will be enough to cover the cost of raising a child.

[Visionoyahweh]

Heaton hates the gays, too.

[keeperrox]

Why do people think an unplanned (and unwanted) child automatically brings joy? Why does everyone have to have the same emotions and thoughts on children? Anti-choicers are so narrow minded and it makes me physically sick.

[ceg045]

Why do people think an unplanned (and unwanted) child automatically brings joy? Why does everyone have to have the same emotions and thoughts on children? Anti-choicers are so narrow minded and it makes me physically sick.

Right? Sometimes, children are not a gift. They do not always bring joy. And anyone who would force a woman to carry and/or raise a child she would have aborted are seriously sick fucks.

[ElphabaGalinda]

Right? Sometimes, children are not a gift. They do not always bring joy. And anyone who would force a woman to carry and/or raise a child she would have aborted are seriously sick fucks.

They are so closed minded because they're opinion basically translates to them believing that the choice they would make is the only right choice. When a woman doesn't want a child, being forced to have it isn't going to magically change anything. Also I get how unplanned pregnancies might bring SOME people joy, if they are wanted pregnancies. But women who have abortions no longer want to be pregnant, and there is a difference between unplanned and unwanted.

I used to be a fan of hers because of Everybody Loves Raymond, but I can't be anymore. I doubt she would tell a woman who is pregnant as a result of rape to be happy about all the unplanned joy she's going to get, even if that's what she's saying here.

[RachelB]

Frankly, if that means a greater proportion of assaults against women are being reported, that cheers me.

What I can't fathom is why anyone who purports to be pro-life believes that a woman's marriage or partnership is going to become safer or more stable because she carries a pregnancy to term. From my viewpoint, being forced to share parenting responsibilities with someone abusive ties her to a relationship she'd be better off without.

I agree with her that coercion is terrible. It's a form of abuse. But it's absolute malarkey to pretend that women are only ever coerced into terminating a pregnancy. Women can also be coerced by abusive partners or parents into carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term. I notice that she isn't complaining about the kind of reproductive coercion that results in a baybee, even if becoming a mother compromises a woman's ability to make a safer life for herself. :x

[CanadianHippie]

On one hand I think a woman should be able to make the choice without having to sacrifice her career or educational goals. On the other hand I think women should be able to make the choice that best suits her financial, emotional and physical needs at the time.

[shesinsane]

Many women also say they felt abandoned, or even coerced into having an abortion.

Oooh, the legendary forced abortionists? Or do they mean a woman who wants to continue her pregnancy but isn't given the choice to carry it to term? :whistle:

[devilsadvocate]

On the contrary, I don't think that the message is "suck it up and act happy" - if you read the article they acknowledge that there are challenges in an unplanned pregnancy. I think the unplanned joy thing is more about OTHER PEOPLE'S reactions to an unplanned pregnancy, not the woman's. For example, notice the part that says "Even well-meaning family and friends often fail to give women what they really need and want - congratulations and unconditional support. Instead of saying 'How can I help?' they say 'A baby will ruin your life'". I have seen these kinds of reactions. People sometimes think it is appropriate to be judgemental about a woman's choice to continue an unplanned pregnancy if they think that she is in a situation where she should have aborted instead of offering support and excitement about the baby.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

On the contrary, I don't think that the message is "suck it up and act happy" - if you read the article they acknowledge that there are challenges in an unplanned pregnancy. I think the unplanned joy thing is more about OTHER PEOPLE'S reactions to an unplanned pregnancy, not the woman's. For example, notice the part that says "Even well-meaning family and friends often fail to give women what they really need and want - congratulations and unconditional support. Instead of saying 'How can I help?' they say 'A baby will ruin your life'". I have seen these kinds of reactions. People sometimes think it is appropriate to be judgemental about a woman's choice to continue an unplanned pregnancy if they think that she is in a situation where she should have aborted instead of offering support and excitement about the baby.

Bolded: I may sound harsh but in some situations, their concerns may be very well founded.

Italics: Second time in a day I've seen this kind of attitude. For the woman who is unexpectently pregnant, there is probably very little joy in the situation, and congratulations are not in order. It's rather selfish for the people around her to think of nothing except how much they will enjoy the baby.

[Peas n carrots]

On one hand I think a woman should be able to make the choice without having to sacrifice her career or educational goals. On the other hand I think women should be able to make the choice that best suits her financial, emotional and physical needs at the time.

Trust women to make tat kind of her decision for herself? Sheesh! :roll:

Babies are not just endless bundles of joy. Just ask Andrea Yates.

[keeperrox]

On the contrary, I don't think that the message is "suck it up and act happy" - if you read the article they acknowledge that there are challenges in an unplanned pregnancy. I think the unplanned joy thing is more about OTHER PEOPLE'S reactions to an unplanned pregnancy, not the woman's. For example, notice the part that says "Even well-meaning family and friends often fail to give women what they really need and want - congratulations and unconditional support. Instead of saying 'How can I help?' they say 'A baby will ruin your life'". I have seen these kinds of reactions. People sometimes think it is appropriate to be judgemental about a woman's choice to continue an unplanned pregnancy if they think that she is in a situation where she should have aborted instead of offering support and excitement about the baby.

It's OKAY if a woman isn't happy about her unplanned pregnancy! Not all women have the same fucking feelings. And I say this as a woman who is 6 weeks into a very wanted pregnancy and very possibly in the middle of a miscarriage. Sometimes there is just no joy associated with it and it's as simple as that. It's OKAY if a woman doesn't want to carry an unwanted baby, but the article certainly doesn't fucking say that.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

It's OKAY if a woman isn't happy about her unplanned pregnancy! Not all women have the same fucking feelings. And I say this as a woman who is 6 weeks into a very wanted pregnancy and very possibly in the middle of a miscarriage. Sometimes there is just no joy associated with it and it's as simple as that. It's OKAY if a woman doesn't want to carry an unwanted baby, but the article certainly doesn't fucking say that.

Wow, I hope things turn out ok for you.

[keeperrox]

Wow, I hope things turn out ok for you.

Thanks, but I don't want to make this about me. I put that in there to give some context, but now I wonder if I should have just left it out.

I'm just so sick of TEH BEBHIEZ! THEY BRING TEH JOY AND HAPPINESS!!!!!!!111!!!!!!1!!! Not everyone wants what I want, what you (the collective you) want, or what the women you know want. That's okay and they need to have the choice to make the decision that is best for them, even if it isn't the decision that makes sense to me in that moment. Because it's none of my business.

[DistantStar]

Okay, I'll say this -- under the circumstances of my own conception, which was a huge OOPS, WTF??, I think it is more than reasonable to not be happy at all, and to even consider abortion. Obviously I am rather glad that my mom didn't, but given the circumstances? Happy was far from the only legit response. I'm sure she wasn't, at least not at first!

keeperrox, that's got to be a super tough situation. {{{{{hugs}}}}}

[Minerva]

We deserve joy, but we don't have to accept it if we don't want to. To make an analogy applicable to FFL (who seem to be your typical batshit raving fundies): sex brings joy. I would love for them all to experience it. THAT DOESN'T MEAN I CAN MAKE THEM HAVE SEX RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I SO BADLY WANT THEM TO HAVE JOY. It sucks the joy out of joyful things when they're forced on you.

And those barriers to reproductive choice that they mention (except that condescending "congratulations!" shit): feminists, unlike whiny fundies, work to correct those because we are pro-choice and want to remove all barriers to choice. Social conservatives have a record of opposing progress on these grounds either because socialism!!1!1 or because family values!!!11!

[desertvixen]

I'm just so sick of TEH BEBHIEZ! THEY BRING TEH JOY AND HAPPINESS!!!!!!!111!!!!!!1!!! Not everyone wants what I want, what you (the collective you) want, or what the women you know want. That's okay and they need to have the choice to make the decision that is best for them, even if it isn't the decision that makes sense to me in that moment. Because it's none of my business.

QFT, especially the bolded. That, and just wanting the baby is not enough - it might not be good for that woman or that situation. Back in October 07, just before my now-ex deployed, I had an early miscarriage (one of the ones that would have passed for a heavy period, except for the fact that I passed some other tissue as well). At the time, I had a vague regret, because we wanted another child, but I also didn't want to be pregnant alone with a toddler.

Now, however, I realize that that early miscarriage was probably FOR the best, because I think if I had had another baby, my now-ex would never have worked up the courage to admit he had been lying to me for a year about wanting to be married, and I would be out of the Army, dependent on him, and married to someone who thought I was pushy, aggressive, and bitchy. Even though I WANTED another baby, and would have found that unplanned pregnancy a source of joy, it would not have been GOOD for me.

keeperrox, I am keeping my fingers crossed for you. ((( )))

[valsa]

On the contrary, I don't think that the message is "suck it up and act happy" - if you read the article they acknowledge that there are challenges in an unplanned pregnancy. I think the unplanned joy thing is more about OTHER PEOPLE'S reactions to an unplanned pregnancy, not the woman's. For example, notice the part that says "Even well-meaning family and friends often fail to give women what they really need and want - congratulations and unconditional support. Instead of saying 'How can I help?' they say 'A baby will ruin your life'". I have seen these kinds of reactions. People sometimes think it is appropriate to be judgemental about a woman's choice to continue an unplanned pregnancy if they think that she is in a situation where she should have aborted instead of offering support and excitement about the baby.

Why would I give congratulations to a woman if I don't know if she's happy to be pregnant? Assuming she's happy about it is just a presumptive as assuming she's unhappy about it. Also, how are these anti-choice people showing unconditional support? Unless one of my friends was woefully unable to care for a child (none of my friends fit that description), I'd be just as supportive of them raising a child as having an abortion, whereas something tells them that if one of these anti-choicers came across a woman wanting to have an abortion, their support would be withdrawn very quickly.

[Funky Chicken]

Why would I give congratulations to a woman if I don't know if she's happy to be pregnant? Assuming she's happy about it is just a presumptive as assuming she's unhappy about it. Also, how are these anti-choice people showing unconditional support? Unless one of my friends was woefully unable to care for a child (none of my friends fit that description), I'd be just as supportive of them raising a child as having an abortion, whereas something tells them that if one of these anti-choicers came across a woman wanting to have an abortion, their support would be withdrawn very quickly.

When someone tells me they're pregnant I ask THEM how they feel, and respond in light of that. You know, as if a pregnant woman might have feelings and opinions of her own!

[luckystone]

A lot of women DO have abortions because of a lack of emotional and/or financial support, when they would have rather been in a different situation and kept the baby.

I'm not sure how they make the leap from that to "therefore abortion must stop". If the woman is uncomfortable about bringing a child into her situation, forcing her to do so won't suddenly improve her financial and emotional difficulties or whatever the problems are! Sure children are joy but they can also go horribly, horribly wrong when you are a single mother starving and have post-natal depression.

If they really cared why not promote birth control and excellent services for women and their children? It would be a start. You'll never fix the problem of people getting pregnant when they're not ready (especially because you don't know when you're ready and some people get pregnant then find their partner leaves or whatever) but it would be something. Why decide the best way to approach this issue is to force women to have children??

[JesusFightClub]

Trust women to make tat kind of her decision for herself? Sheesh! :roll:

Babies are not just endless bundles of joy. Just ask Andrea Yates.

QFT

[MonkeyMomma]

Heaton hates the gays, too.

She also had some nasty shit to say about Sandra Fluke, too: http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/03 ... hollywood/

[MonkeyMomma]

Okay, I'll say this -- under the circumstances of my own conception, which was a huge OOPS, WTF??, I think it is more than reasonable to not be happy at all, and to even consider abortion. Obviously I am rather glad that my mom didn't, but given the circumstances? Happy was far from the only legit response. I'm sure she wasn't, at least not at first!

keeperrox, that's got to be a super tough situation. {{{{{hugs}}}}}

All of this.

[ElphabaGalinda]

When someone tells me they're pregnant I ask THEM how they feel, and respond in light of that. You know, as if a pregnant woman might have feelings and opinions of her own!

That's what I do too. How are you is always an appropriate question. And then depending on what they say, I respond accordingly either way. If you don't know what the woman intends to do, congratulations can be innappropriate. Of course once you KNOW she wants to keep the baby of course you should be supportive. And if they choose to have an abortion you should be just as supportive. I can agree that any woman would want unconditional support, but that's unconditional support for whatever they choose. I've had 2 friends tell me they were unexpectedly pregnant...one had an abortion and one kept the baby. How are you worked in both situations before I knew what they would choose.