AFA Spokesman Says Tax Those Who Don't Attend Church

[mirele]

We could worship bacon. There are at least three different bacon churches out there.

Church of Bacon

International Church of Bacon

Church of Bacon Jesus

and that was just on the first page of Google search.

[No Fun My Babe]

We should have devil's food cake too, just to annoy the fundies. ''OMG, devil food at a church! Jebus wouldn't approve!"

Oh yeah, gotta have dessert too. Heathen food!

[Anxious Girl]

One of the last times I attended church, it actually caused problems to my physical health. It was during Lent and the Catholics here love them some incense. It was so strong that I got extremely light headed. I finally had to run out after about 20 minutes and threw up.

So, if I go to church and get sick ... I get to sue for medical malpractice, right?

No, no, silly! You can't sue! It's God's plan that you got sick! And you got sick because your parents sinned! So going to church was good for you anyway, because you will get to go to Heaven even though your parents sinned and you repented for them because you are not being a rebellious daughter or son and obeying God!!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!!!!!!!!!! ... It's hard to think like a fundie. * :oops: *

[AtroposHeart]

Why not make it a multifaith church? I can cleanse and pull the church/house with positive energy along with making some (blessed) cookies

[dairyfreelife]

If churches didn't receive tax exempt status maybe we could put the extra money into health care. There really is no reason for religious institutions to be exempt from taxes. Most churches are businesses and should be taxed the same. I would make an exeption for those churches that physically provide charity to the poor in ways other then passing out pamphlets or preaching.

Maybe if the AFA spokesman keeps talking, people will reconsider the tax exempt status of religious institutions.

http://atheism.about.com/od/churchestax ... atters.htm

I have no idea if the article is acurate but if so, it is almost unethical for churches not to pay taxes. Churches that focus mainly on evangelism should not be considered charities.

Can we start a church of free thinkers and promote a message of equality and freedom? We can have weekly reading from great thinkers. After services we can have weekly potlucks. You can't beat free food.

Edited because I keep adding stuff

Sorry, that article is incorrect and coming from an atheist, I can't believe they would even consider such a thing. Whoever wrote that clearly didn't bother to do any research. There's a major reason churches are tax-exempt. It wasn't to protect the church, it's to protect the country from the church taking any control in government. It's not about charity, it's about freedom of and from religion.

All people and businesses that pay taxes do so and get say in politics as a result. Tax paying businesses can endorse people and pay for politicians and parties. My local newspaper, for example, endorses candidates and pays money for them. They pay taxes, so they can do that legally. If a church pays taxes like a business, they get the same say as a business. Right now it's illegal for churches to pay and endorse politicians. They don't pay taxes, so they don't get a say in any government issue. If they start to pay taxes, they'll get that right. I don't want any church to have a say in how the government can be run. I don't want mega churches pouring money into politicians or a party. Yes, religious nuts try to get in, but legally they can't do it and can't get a say and that's because of their tax-exempt status. I'll lose that $1000 extra every year if it means churches are forced to stay out of the local, state and federal government dealings.

[Alecto]

If you show up to Free Jinger at least once a week, it counts as worship in the Holy Temple of Alectocookieism.

[doggie]

Sorry, that article is incorrect and coming from an atheist, I can't believe they would even consider such a thing. Whoever wrote that clearly didn't bother to do any research. There's a major reason churches are tax-exempt. It wasn't to protect the church, it's to protect the country from the church taking any control in government. It's not about charity, it's about freedom of and from religion.

All people and businesses that pay taxes do so and get say in politics as a result. Tax paying businesses can endorse people and pay for politicians and parties. My local newspaper, for example, endorses candidates and pays money for them. They pay taxes, so they can do that legally. If a church pays taxes like a business, they get the same say as a business. Right now it's illegal for churches to pay and endorse politicians. They don't pay taxes, so they don't get a say in any government issue. If they start to pay taxes, they'll get that right. I don't want any church to have a say in how the government can be run. I don't want mega churches pouring money into politicians or a party. Yes, religious nuts try to get in, but legally they can't do it and can't get a say and that's because of their tax-exempt status. I'll lose that $1000 extra every year if it means churches are forced to stay out of the local, state and federal government dealings.

Now this is a great post. though I want churches to suffer the burden of taxes but not at the cost of them pushing politicians. though with the new laws it would not be hard for them to get away with it though superpacs.

[FJSharkJump]

Are there going to be sermons about the impending Apocalecto?

[No Fun My Babe]

Hmmm, good post and I didn't think of it like that. I guess I just thought, they're already buying politicians anyway and I hate how they're allowed to become mega-rich like a business without paying any taxes as a consequence.

[Sola]

We could worship bacon. There are at least three different bacon churches out there.

Church of Bacon

International Church of Bacon

Church of Bacon Jesus

and that was just on the first page of Google search.

We need the Church of the Bacon Bra. Experienced can be our pastor.

[Peas n carrots]

I'll join the Church of Sunday Brunch, but I'm brining baked challah French toast. Seriously, if there was a heaven eating that woulda be as close as it gets.

I'm totally with the person who made the mention of brining cake for breakfast. As a kid whenever we had a birthday the next morning we would get the leftover birthday cake for breakfast.

[nokidsmom]

My husband makes awesome waffles. I'll bring our waffle iron.

No waffe iron here, but my husband makes a killer omelet featuring what else...... bacon.....can he come too? He does a much better job of making it than I do.

[debrand]

Now this is a great post. though I want churches to suffer the burden of taxes but not at the cost of them pushing politicians. though with the new laws it would not be hard for them to get away with it though superpacs.

Dairy free you have an interesting take on the issue and you almost changed my mine. You certainly have added a nuance to my consideration of the issue. However churches already have a lot influence in politics. Anyone who lives in the south can testify to the power of conservative religion in our communities. I've attended churches where the pastor talked about issues like abortion etc. Although he might not have spoken for or against specific candidates, the pastor wasn't hesitant to discuss which issues Christians were supposed to vote against or for. Churches certainly didn't mind speaking for the amendment to prevent gay marriage in NC and I don't see anything legally happening to them anytime soon.

Taking away their tax exemption will give churches less money to use on paying things like light bills, pastor's salaries and other things. I doubt that they could have more political influence then they already have. A few of the smaller, more radical IFB churches would probably not be able to exist and that is fine with me. The Catholic Church would have less funds available to defend rapist priests. The LDS Church would have had a little less money to influence California voters on the amendment for same sex marriage. It can only be a good thing for Scientologists and members of the FLDS to have less funds available.

You have made me consider the issue from another point of view, Dairy free

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I would gladly pay this tax if it would get me health care, better schools for my kids, and high speed rail.

[Hane]

If churches didn't receive tax exempt status maybe we could put the extra money into health care.

Can we start a church of free thinkers and promote a message of equality and freedom? We can have weekly reading from great thinkers. After services we can have weekly potlucks. You can't beat free food.

Already taken care of! It's my local UU.

[geniebelle6901]

There really is no reason for religious institutions to be exempt from taxes.

You might want to re-think that statement. If you think churches are too involved in politics today, just wait until they are taxed. They will have way more power, a much larger voice than they do now, and the ability to sway the public. Say goodbye to abortion, equal rights, freedom of religion, etc. And that's just for starters. Is that what you really want? Or do you think you can tax a large group and tell them to STFU? We don't want or need churches to have any more political power than they already have.

[CelticGoddess]

HA! I'll set up my own church at my house then... anyone in the greater metro Atlanta area is welcome to attend. My husband makes killer pancakes on Sunday morning, so come early and hungry. I will enjoy the tax free status and y'all are welcome to tithe!!!!eleventy!!!!

Hey, we could switch back and forth. My husband loves to smoke pork shoulders, I keep beer handy and we have a train garden. So, on sundays FJ's aren't going to church at your house, they could come to mine. :) And it's all tax exempt!

[genericJname]

All breakfast items are welcome at my church. Amen.

No way! Love for any breakfast other than breakfast burritos is an unnatural abomination. The french toast perverts should be stoned.

[dairyfreelife]

Dairy free you have an interesting take on the issue and you almost changed my mine. You certainly have added a nuance to my consideration of the issue. However churches already have a lot influence in politics. Anyone who lives in the south can testify to the power of conservative religion in our communities. I've attended churches where the pastor talked about issues like abortion etc. Although he might not have spoken for or against specific candidates, the pastor wasn't hesitant to discuss which issues Christians were supposed to vote against or for. Churches certainly didn't mind speaking for the amendment to prevent gay marriage in NC and I don't see anything legally happening to them anytime soon.

Taking away their tax exemption will give churches less money to use on paying things like light bills, pastor's salaries and other things. I doubt that they could have more political influence then they already have. A few of the smaller, more radical IFB churches would probably not be able to exist and that is fine with me. The Catholic Church would have less funds available to defend rapist priests. The LDS Church would have had a little less money to influence California voters on the amendment for same sex marriage. It can only be a good thing for Scientologists and members of the FLDS to have less funds available.

You have made me consider the issue from another point of view, Dairy free

Pastors can tell their congregation anything they want, but it's still an individual vote. The pastor can vote and the members can vote, but not a penny of the church's money goes into politics. It legally can't and I want it stay that way personally. Sure, a pastor can say he's for someone and tell members to vote for that person, but they still can't legally endorse a politician as a church. And not everyone in a congregation will do just what a pastor says. Like the church I go to from time to time is a large church. Sure, the pastors are against things like abortion, but they can preach it all they want, I'm still pro-choice. I'm not the only one either.

I wouldn't doubt the amount of influence a church can have if they started to pay taxes. If you think it's bad now, when they can actually endorse and pour money into candidates...yikes. I could see some large churches pouring huge amounts into morons like Santorum. Right now they can just tell their congregations to vote for Santorum, but can't put money into the campaign. A little less money won't stop the churches from doing what they want, but paying taxes will give them the right to be right in politics.

Also, though churches don't always do charity, they are places that receive donations instead of payments and aren't a "for-profit" institution like a business, which also makes them tax-exempt. I want churches to stay tax exempt and not be allowed to endorse anyone or put a penny in the pocket of a politician. What you see as just a little less money I see as a threat to separation of church and state.

[emmiedahl]

Pastors can tell their congregation anything they want, but it's still an individual vote. The pastor can vote and the members can vote, but not a penny of the church's money goes into politics. It legally can't and I want it stay that way personally. Sure, a pastor can say he's for someone and tell members to vote for that person, but they still can't legally endorse a politician as a church. And not everyone in a congregation will do just what a pastor says. Like the church I go to from time to time is a large church. Sure, the pastors are against things like abortion, but they can preach it all they want, I'm still pro-choice. I'm not the only one either.

I wouldn't doubt the amount of influence a church can have if they started to pay taxes. If you think it's bad now, when they can actually endorse and pour money into candidates...yikes. I could see some large churches pouring huge amounts into morons like Santorum. Right now they can just tell their congregations to vote for Santorum, but can't put money into the campaign. A little less money won't stop the churches from doing what they want, but paying taxes will give them the right to be right in politics.

Also, though churches don't always do charity, they are places that receive donations instead of payments and aren't a "for-profit" institution like a business, which also makes them tax-exempt. I want churches to stay tax exempt and not be allowed to endorse anyone or put a penny in the pocket of a politician. What you see as just a little less money I see as a threat to separation of church and state.

I love your perspective, but I have to disagree. Especially with this: "The pastor can vote and the members can vote, but not a penny of the church's money goes into politics." The Mormons almost singlehandedly got Prop 8 passed in California, pouring millions into the project, and they are revving up to do the same in Washington.

[Burris]

If churches didn't receive tax exempt status maybe we could put the extra money into health care. There really is no reason for religious institutions to be exempt from taxes. Most churches are businesses and should be taxed the same. I would make an exeption for those churches that physically provide charity to the poor in ways other then passing out pamphlets or preaching.

I completely agree.

And Fischer has never written anything for public consumption that is in any way less than completely dumb and offensive. That's how he keeps himself on wingnut welfare.

SOME HR PERSON: "So what do you think would make you a good employee at the mall/the construction site/the taxi company?"

FISCHER: "Well, I spend all my time bitching about how other people live while sitting on my ass and doing nothing to help improve the world in any discernible way. That's good enough, right?"

[Burris]

Sorry, that article is incorrect and coming from an atheist, I can't believe they would even consider such a thing. Whoever wrote that clearly didn't bother to do any research. There's a major reason churches are tax-exempt. It wasn't to protect the church, it's to protect the country from the church taking any control in government. It's not about charity, it's about freedom of and from religion.

It isn't working, and in part because large churches now have such deep purses.

[emmiedahl]

It isn't working, and in part because large churches now have such deep purses.

While they cannot overtly endorse a candidate, churches *are* allowed to donate money to political causes, and most of them do. According to the IRS: "IRC § 501©(3) organizations are allowed to conduct activities that are not related to elections, such as issue advocacy, lobbying for or against legislation, and supporting or opposing the appointment of individuals to non-elective offices."

So outside of endorsing an individual, there is no limit on the political activities of a church. They can lobby the candidates/elected officials directly and donate endless money to propositions like Prop. 8.

[AmandaP]

And Fischer has never written anything for public consumption that is in any way less than completely dumb and offensive. That's how he keeps himself on wingnut welfare.

This.

My Father-In-Law is one of the church elders who fired Bryan Fischer back in 2005. Fischer is smart. Smart enough to know what he is doing. The worst part, to me, is that at one time he was responsible for teaching and preaching to a congregation. He knows how a Christian is supposed to speak and behave and he was a very good preacher! But he has sold all that out to his reactionary political agenda.

Ugh.

[dairyfreelife]

It isn't working, and in part because large churches now have such deep purses.

It's not? Really? I know religious nuts have attempted a lot things and laws, but they still have failed nearly all of them. While churches can endorse organizations, they can't endorse politicians and things related to elections. They try, yes, which is why I don't want them having any more say than they already do. Do you all really want churches to have more influence? You really want them to be able to pour money into politicians as well politics and parties? Some churches have millions of dollars to pour into those. It's bad enough they get to put money into crisis pregnancy centers and advocate bills like the personhood and prop 8, but we're lucky that personhood is considered unconstitutional. It does seem they're trying to weasel into politics and I don't want to open the door to let them slip dollars into the pockets of a party or politician. If you do, fine, but I think you're going to open up a major can of worms you wish you hadn't opened if you get rid of the tax exempt status.