WTF Vacation Bible School

July 7, 2012

First off: I totally brought this upon my self by sending my kid to free vacation bible school at the non-denomational church up the street, but he goes to the non-religious preschool run by the church, and I have met the pastor of the church and talked with him quite extensively, and he doesn't seem fundie or weird at all, but in fact, really down to earth and kind. So when all my son's friends from preschool signed up for this VBS, I decided to put him in too. Theme was trusting in God and they were doing a bunch of fund-raising to purchase mosquito nets for children for some organization in Africa, and it all seemed mellow and nice.

Until....my four year old came home with his craft on the third day - it was a tear-out page from colouring book, of Jesus carrying the cross and they had given the kids thorns to glue onto his crown.

That was their craft. Gluing thorns to Jesus' crown. :shock: My son was quite fascinated by this and kept telling me about Jesus's "ouchie" crown and the bad guys that beat him up.

The next day he came home with a crucifixion colouring page and told me in graphic detail about how Jesus got killed on the cross and they hammered nails into his hands and feet.

I just don't get how they can think that this is appropriate for little four year olds. :angry-steamingears:

I'm pretty mad that they sucked me in and there was't any warning that the crucifixion was going to be graphically discussed. I really thought this church was mainstream and normal. The preschool they run is fantastic, and there has never had any religious content aside from generic and IMO benign "thank you God for food" songs sung before snack-time. I guess the VBS is really an "outreach" so they want to get the salvation message in there loud and clear. But it really felt like a bait & switch and I was so pissed that I almost didn't let him go back for the last day, but the last day was just a party and a presentation to parents of the songs they learned and my son was so excited about it that it seemed mean to keep him from it. I sure as hell won't be sending him back next year.

This was my first experience with church-run summer day camps. Are they all like this?

July 7, 2012

You've got me nervous now. My kids are going to a week-long church summer camp (not to stay, they come home each day) in a couple of weeks. It's at the local Church of England church so I hope it's not going to be too intense. Although It's CofE, it does have quite an evangelical vicar so I really hope the boys are not going to be too indoctrinated. I was kind of annoyed that the vicar had come into my boys' school and done a bit of a sell for this camp which meant that I ended up feeling like I had to let them go because all their friends are going. Also it's something to keep them busy and give my mum a break because she looks after them while I'm at work. Then again, I guess I have to do what I have always told myself I would do, which is let my kids make their own decisions about religion.

July 7, 2012

I grew up in the South, where VBS was often run at the same time as a summer revival meeting. So, yeah, they usually hit the religion points a little harder than the rest of the year. But most of it, for the kids, anyway, was more along the lines of God loves you! He sent his son for you! You should love him back! I never remember a moment at any age when they graphically described the crucifixion, and the crafts were usually quite benign, like God's eye weavings, or stringing beads for Bible verses we memorized.

In general, the churches we attended (mainstream Protestant, with a touch of Southern revival every year) were pretty gentle as far as Sunday school teaching went. We heard Bible stories every Sunday, and there were the Easter and Christmas pageants every year, but mostly it was like going for an hour of crafts and songs every week.

In fact, and this is kind of embarrassing to admit, I was in junior high before it actually dawned on me that Mary and Joseph weren't even married when she turned up preggers. I mean, I obviously knew about her being a virgin and all, but I guess in my innocent little mind, I just kinda thought the "visitation" happened before she and Joseph could do the deed. :oops:

So, yeah, it sounds like you got one of the more "enthusiastic" VBS teachers. Since you won't be sending your son next year, it might not matter to you, but you might want to ask the pastor if that sort of teaching is typical of their VBS program. The VBS teachers are all volunteers, and unless the church follows a standard program, each teacher might have a lot of leeway to teach whatever and however s/he wants. He may not be aware that the preschoolers are being subjected to the gory details...

July 7, 2012

I guess I have to do what I have always told myself I would do, which is let my kids make their own decisions about religion.

Well, I agree wholeheartedly with this, and we always tried to do it, but the truth is that unless you are also sending them to an Islam camp, and a Jewish camp, and a Buddhist camp, etc., etc., they're only going to be getting one viewpoint from a CofE camp, and it isn't that all religions are equal.

I struggled with this when one of my my daughters was about 11, and one of her friend's family started inviting her to church with them. I said okay, but I refused to get up early and get her up in time. If she wanted to go see what church was like, she was old enough to get up and be ready on time by herself. That lasted about 2-3 weeks. Then it was too much trouble. :D

But if she had liked it enough to keep going, I don't know what I would have done. On the one hand, if she truly felt called to a religion, I wasn't going to stand in her way just because I didn't feel the same way. On the other hand, with little to no exposure to other religions, how would she ever know what was a "real" call, vs. just her response to being made to feel "special" every week by this family that wanted to convert her?

Fortunately, I was able to dodge that bullet and didn't have to make the decision. If I had, I probably would have insisted that she visit/experience a variety of religious practices before declaring for one.

July 7, 2012

I had a similar experience I went to VBS with a friend in elementary school and after my mom heard me coming home talking about the cruxification she pulled me and my sister from the program.

July 7, 2012

So, yeah, it sounds like you got one of the more "enthusiastic" VBS teachers. Since you won't be sending your son next year, it might not matter to you, but you might want to ask the pastor if that sort of teaching is typical of their VBS program. The VBS teachers are all volunteers, and unless the church follows a standard program, each teacher might have a lot of leeway to teach whatever and however s/he wants. He may not be aware that the preschoolers are being subjected to the gory details...[/quote]

He was there, the entire week. I saw him every day, and he was going around helping out where needed, hanging up coats, and running errands for the group leaders. His wife was totally running the show, and he was her hop and go fetch it. So I can't see how he didn't know. I do think I will talk to him though. He lives a few blocks away from me so I run into him pretty regularly.

We go to a United Church, and the children's program there is so gentle and inclusive - they are running a camp later in the summer, and I've heard from a bunch of non-Christian families in the neighbourhood that it was really awesome in past years. But I'm totally going to grill them before I put my son into it this year, because I don't want to have to re-debrief him.

July 7, 2012

Dang. That is creepy and macabre. VBS is meant to be a fun way of getting kids involved at the church and teaching them the basics of Christianity in a fun, cozy, loving way. Turning the crucifixion into a craft is just demeaning. "Here kids, Jesus went through a lot of pain, so now we're going to cover him in glue." Not only were those crafts inappropriate, they sound boring! Sorry you found a sucky VBS. They're usually a lot of fun- for kids AND adults.

July 7, 2012

wow. I just pulled out one of the sheets he brought home, and looked up the curriculum. VBS is big business. These people sell all sorts of crap.

group.com/childrens-ministry/vbs/sky

It's VBS in a can. Literally. There were at least 100 kids in the program, it cost the church a lot of money to put the camp on.

I do have to mention, the decorations were amazing. They totally transformed the church, and it really felt like you were in the sky... everything was blue and there fluffy clouds and kites and planes strung up all over.

July 7, 2012

Well, I agree wholeheartedly with this, and we always tried to do it, but the truth is that unless you are also sending them to an Islam camp, and a Jewish camp, and a Buddhist camp, etc., etc., they're only going to be getting one viewpoint from a CofE camp, and it isn't that all religions are equal.

I don't know how old constantgardner's children are, but I just want to say I attended religious camps growing up (one catholic, the other protestant and always having a certain number of Fundies there) and while they both taught that their religion was the only right one, a bigger impact on my decisions about religion was my parents insistence that my sister and I do our research in regard to faith. There were somethings at the second camp that occasionally made me feel "off" about the person saying/doing them but the environment that I was raised in allowed me to take these things and examine them to be discarded or not as a possible view point for myself.

If there is concern that your (general your) child will fall prey to over zealous Evangelists from one specific religion, then the parents initiating research in other religions is very helpful. For one thing it can help to dispel any misconceptions the child may have been told, for another if gives them the tools to research on their own later.

July 7, 2012

For future reference--I've never seen a VBS that wasn't expressly outreach. That's one of the purposes, as far as I can tell. Never seen a Jesus and the cross coloring page, but the death/resurrection/salvation thing is a major theme of every VBS I've seen. Well, except the one time when they did an "Israel in the desert" theme.

July 7, 2012

Ugh, my daughter went to a VBS program like this a couple years ago, at a "REAL bible believing!" church in our town. It came in really fun packaging (a beach theme! Sand dollars! Fun in the sun, wear flip flops!) and then they sent the kids home with crosses that the kids had written "REPENT" on. :( I pulled her from that one before the week was over.

The one that our church sponsors is more about singing "Dance with Me" and making friendship bracelets, and they raise money for Heifer International. She still attends that one. It sounds like perhaps you just found an overzealous VBS counselor, really, glueing thorns on Jesus' head? Leaving aside the message, what a crap project.

July 7, 2012

LOL, that reminds me of my fifteen years of Catholic school in Belgium (three years of kindergarten, six years of primary, six years of high - we start school at 2.5 years of age). Compared to a lot of Christian schools in the US, my schooling was really very liberal... nobody really thought virgin birth was a thing, everyone was cool with evolution, some people are gay and that's okay, etc etc.

And yet for some reason, LOTS OF TORTURE AND CRUCIFIXION TALK. Seriously. I think I was four or five when my teacher was all AND THAT IS WHERE THEY PUT THE NAILS. I was seven or eight when another teacher told us some graphic martyrdom stories about people being skinned alive, etc. I mean, all in all, I dealt with it OK and just retain to this day a creepy interest in martyred saints (though I no longer consider myself a Catholic or a Christian)... but in retrospect, not really kid stuff?!

ETA: We did have to draw crucified!Jesus once when I was eight (mine was awesome and bloody)... but at least I guess I never had to glue on thorns.

July 7, 2012

Well, you didn't put your child in summer church camp. You put your child in Vacation Bible School. Church camp would be an overnight event at a campground run by a church denomination or large non-denominational church. Vacation Bible School is an evangelistic outreach ministry. These days, most churches go with one of the major curriculums that are themed and sold by major publishing companies. Yes, they are VBS in a can.

How graphic the gospel message is depends upon the curriculum and the church. However, every VBS *is* going to hit the highlights of the gospel message. The entire purpose of VBS is to evangelize children and convert them to Christianity both to reach their soul and in the hopes that they can reach an entire family through the children who come to VBS.

We went to a large non-denominational church for awhile when my oldest was little and part of why we stopped going was because her 3 year old Sunday School class spent a month going into graphic details about crucifixtion and hell. My poor preschooler was coming home terrified of death and hell. So, yeah it can get pretty graphic.

Most VBS programs try to make it a light message and not scare people off. However, plenty of churches feel it is their responsiblity to not do that, not even for children who will be as responsible for going to HELL as adults if they don't hear and believe. Christianity is an evangelistic religion. I happen to believe if you do believe then the best witness is the evidence of your own life and not hellfire and damnation. However, there is hundreds of years of Protestent tradition that hellfire and damnation is an appropriate path to take. Afterall, children sat through stuff such as "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" and were considered equally responsible for failing to heed and respond to that message too.

Church camp is going to be different. Those are overnight camps and usually the assumption is that most children there have heard the gospel message. When I was a kid, we usually heard the gospel message briefly maybe twice in the week. The rest of the week's devotional stuff was devoted to details about how to live faith in action and learning more about your faith. But, again, church camp assumes you have ties to the church already and VBS assumes the primary purpose is to reach unbelievers who have little to know gospel background.

That in NO way means that I think there is something appropriate about graphic evangelistic messages being given to young children at VBS. It's just the reality that it happens. People raised in the church really have NO balance to see some of the stuff they say, believe, and teach is SO bizarre. I've sat in church and listened to hymns sung about drinking the blood of Christ that sounded downright canabalistic and had no recognition from those around me that maybe *this* is why early Christians were thought to BE Canabals.

July 7, 2012

Okay, this is not the only song like this, and I like the song BUT..... if you don't come from the worldview and paradigm of Christianity, I think this hymn can be VERY disturbing.

Nothing But The Blood of Jesus

What can wash away my sin?

Nothing but the blood of Jesus;

What can make me whole again?