AK The Last Frontier

[MamaJunebug]

I've got a bad track record with reality shows. I thought Duck Dynasty was the 2010's equivalent of "I Love Lucy" for the first few episodes. Yeah, nevermind.

Then I found out Mob Wives wasn't real. KIDDING!

Srsly, I've been a total fan of Alaska The Last Frontier because .... well, I love me some 49th state, always have. But I can't ignore the mounting evidence of MRA-ishness if not outright religiously based women-bashing.

Somebody who knows more about the family, or who watches the show and has a totally different takeaway, please tell me if/where I'm wrong.

1. Quirky/jack-of-all-trades Otto says of his wife in the cab of the excavator, 'Well, now, there's something you just don't see, a woman operating heavy equipment.' And his wife bleats to be relieved of the job because the controls confuse her.

2. More-or-less family patriarch Atz, Sr., was excommunicated from the LDS church when he fathered some kids with a woman to whom he wasn't married. Just the fact that he was/is LDS kinda pings my radar.

3. Probably THE most egregious and disheartening comes from Atz Lee, who's in his mid-30s and so oughta know better. His wife goes a little nuts bashing salmon in the head (I'm told this is standard procedure when catching salmon) and so he covertly arranges to have her work extra-hard for the rest of the afternoon "like I used to do with my kids when they were little. Hopefully she'll be all tired out and I'll get some rest."

4. Atz also has something to say about how his salmon-bashing daughter-in-law kinda "scares" him.

Just me? Anybody else? Mountain outta a molehill, or in this case, "glacier out of a molehill"? ha ha ha Please, if I'm overreacting, I'd love to know. Because other than this, the show seems to be about as really-real and unscripted/dramatized thus far. Sure, some of the vignettes are staged, but they're obvious and funny ... I think ... :(

[keen23]

I like these people, so I hope their show is at least somewhat "real."

Have you seen that other Alaskan "reality"show? Alaskan Bush People. That family, the Browns, is totally screwed up.

[MamaJunebug]

I like these people, so I hope their show is at least somewhat "real."

Have you seen that other Alaskan "reality"show? Alaskan Bush People. That family, the Browns, is totally screwed up.

Oh, girl -- just that dad's ridiculous moustache repels me like bear grease to a mosquito!

I enjoy 'Edge Of Alaska" because I know someone who's worked with the protagonist, Neil Darrish. She says Neil is indeed the visionary/troublemaker/genius/madman that he's made out to be, and that he's a reliable businessman (she does business with him), so he's ok in my book at least for that.

I really enjoy Dr. Oakley, Yukon Vet or whatever that show's called on Nat Geo Wild. Find it hard to believe that any of that is scripted, although her services to various patients may be set up by producers. But the dramz, they are real, I think.

Thanks for your response. The more I think about it, the more I think I overreacted to Atz Lee's comments about getting Jane (his wife) to bed early as though she were a child. I smell producers looking for a clever quote or three, more than young Atz being a chauvinistic patriarchial ass.

And Atz's Mormonism .... well, he sure hasn't attempted to represent anything about the church, so again, overreaction.

Otto's smart-assy comments? That's just Otto, being Otto, probably.

I do have a breaking-up point, though. The minute any of those guys appears on any kind of TV show other than ATLF, I take 'em off the DVR schedule. They're interesting in their native habitat. I wanna live a little vicariously off-the-grid and from-the-land via their show. When they become celebrities a la the gawdammed Robertsons, it's over in clover. :penguin-no:

Edited for keyboard errors. ;)

[Maggie Mae]

Do you guys really want me to rain on your parade?

[hapamama]

I love the show, but I realize that one, they're not that far out from town, and two that quite a lot of the show is edited for drama or even staged.

[MamaJunebug]

Do you guys really want me to rain on your parade?

Go for it !!!

Dish!!

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I don't think they're very patriarchal or religious. Jane and Atz Lee are artists, and they okay in a band. And she never puts up with shit. Charlotte has yelled right back at Otto. He has a temper that's for sure.

I've heard they are right outside of Homer, AK, and people complain that it's fake, but they aren't purporting to be survivalists. They just do a lot of homesteading things because they enjoy it and a way of life they respect. They still go to grocery stores and bars and on vacation. Eve had her baby in a hospital. They just never show ANY of that, so it paints a certain picture.

I didn't know Atz was Mormon before. I'll have to google. I just watched their show last night and I googled them then. Jane has a daughter from a previous relationship and Atz Lee has a son from a previous relationship but they don't have any together.

Now the bush people. Those man boys are freaks. So so awkward! And I've heard that show is mostly fake.

[MamaJunebug]

Not A Loser, thanks! We may be obliged to move this to Worldly Distractions if no misogyny can be found, eh?

I have the Mormon info from Jewel's memoirs, which so far I've been unable to locate in a library, faugh!!!

Part of the "fakeness" of ATLF is the narration. I made the mistake of inviting a friend to watch the episode where Eivin's wife Eve goes on her first hunt, makes her first kill. IMHO it was very true to life in that Eve got emotional about offing the deer, and I know other hunters who thank the carcass of their prey as well as God before they haul it back or begin to field-dress it. So far, so good.

But the narration went to lengths to say that with the harvest of two small does, Eivin and Eve's family would not starve through the 8-month-long winter. My friend began hopping up and down and crying "fake" -- as the does each were barely bigger than a good-sized Labrador Retriever.

"They've got like 60 pounds of meat, tops, there! 'Won't starve,' my popo!" he fumed. No amount of explanation as to how they also have moose, salmon and other deer would shut him up/calm him down.

I've noticed that with other aspects of the show. When Eivin tried stringing barbed wire from the earthmover, rather than pulling it by hand, comes to mind. The wire snapped and the drums/horns on the soundtrack made it sound like we'd come back from commercial break to find Otto decapitated. Not so! Accidents happen ... the showrunners have to give us perils-of-Pauline-type cliffhangers to keep us tuned, I suppose.

Eivin acknowledges that they live a "hybrid" off-/on-grid existence. What I particularly love about the show is how it's inspired me to root around for supplies rather than reflexively hop on over to the store for a brand-new version of what I need. FWIW.

Now, folks who I do believe live off-the-grid and takes their chances are on Alaska Railroad. Not the RR employees, but the off-gridders in the Talkeetna, AK, area (hundreds of miles from the Kilchers) who rely on the RR for monthly trips into town. One guy shot his hand off a few years ago - he must be in his 70s, and the amputation was recent. Those folks, I believe, are keronsene-lamp, battery-powered radio, wood- and propane-fired heater all the way.

I also have to acknowledge seeing a vignette on the ATLF episode where Otto & sons have gone to retrieve scrap iron. Eve and Charlotte have a spa day, complete with cucumbers on their eyes as they lounge at the pond, and then they run into the pond water in red longjohns (Charlotte) and trunks and a t-shirt (Eve). Eve's voiceover talks about how it's fun to "be girly" when the guys are gone, and they (the females) don't have to "be tough."

Love the info on Jane and AtzLee, also, Not A Loser, thank you! Yeah, I'm pretty well persuaded these are just folks. And it's been fun to reminisce about my viewing.

Maggie Mae, still ready for the scoop if you're inclined!

Still absolutely certain I'll walk away from viewing the moment I see a Kilcher on any talk show including The Soup! Dancing With The Stars? They'll be dead to me. But I doubt it'll happen. (hope)

ETA: As a non-rural person, I have no idea what "600 acres" includes. Google says it's just under one square mile. That surprised me - the way the show homes in on the map of Kenai Peninsula, you'd think the family owned a good fourth of it. Not so - the peninsula is like 16,000 sq.miles.

Central Park in NYC is 800-some acres. Kilchers have 600. Just something I need to wrap my head around ... being not-a-farmer, and all ...

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I also like Yukon Men. They are pretty hardcore. I haven't seen the railroad show or some of the others. But it's enough to convince me that I couldn't live in Alaska - way too cold!

[Maggie Mae]

Alaska has a subsidy program for film, which is why they keep filming shitty "reality" tv shows here. They have done a couple of "big name" films as well, but it's mostly tv shows. And I don't think the subsidies are working as intended, as the majority of the films brought in 99% of their crew from out of state.

I'm not super familiar with the various shows discussed here, as I'm not a cable subscriber. From what I understand, the Alaska Bush family is mostly fake, from out of state, and lives on the road system (aka, not in the bush).. Also they had some legal trouble. There are a few articles on the Alaska Dispatch (with caveats) I'll link you when I get to a desktop

As for AK The Last Frontier. Nice family, boring show with manufactured drama. Again, they aren't super remote. I love that area of Alaska though. And they are millionaires. I don't really understand why they would do the show.

Actually, I have a feeling that most people who actually live in bush Alaska wouldn't be on a show. Or a show wouldn't be that interesting to the majority, which is what discovery and TLC require. Even with the subsidy, the film crew still has to pay for the trip to Alaska, then the flights to wherever, probably special equipment and arctic clothing if it's winter. And that's on top of the normal expenses.

I had a roommate who dated one of the guys from the deadliest catch (I've never seen the show so ...) apparently that's common though.

[Mango]

600 acres is a nice sized place, but it's not giant. (Well, at least not by Texas standards. I'm thinking I may have a skewed idea of 'large' farms. Our family farm (cattle and orchard) is 2400 acres; but most of my friends back east who are on farms have ~150-200acre places. So... yeah. No idea how that lines up with Alaska farming, though- great big state but I'm not sure what stocking levels are, and folks who are doing hobby homesteading can get by with such different amounts depending on their commitment that... yeah.

I will admit that my addiction to fake reality alaska is pretty much 95% Extreme Alaska Survival Race. I really wish they'd do a follow-the-folks show about sled dog racing, but I'm sure they'd do a horrible job and I'd hate it. I'm currently busy being cranky about the promo for this week's EASR ep.

[MamaJunebug]

Mango -- "EASR"?

Maggie Mae, one of the things I don't quite get about the Milchers' homeplace is the hunting. When they travel miles to get the wildlife du jour, are they hunting on private lands? Government lands? I guinkthats why I was surprised that the homestead was "only" 1 square mile. I'd thought everything they hunted was on their territory. Should've known.

MJB, for whom 1/4 acre is QUITE enough, heh!

ETA Maggie, from what Jewel's said onstage and in at least one interview, Discovery approached the family as part of the current Alaska-mania. Jewel said when Atz Lee called her for advice about "getting on TV" she had a moment of confusion bcz Atz Lee doesn't own a TV. Thus I'm thinking the fam are doing the show because it's pretty much easy money. They let crews follow them in everyday life and collect some cash. I'm sure they previously were worth millions but I'd suspect that much of that was in land and tangible assets, not necessarily cold, hard cash ...but I'm just blueskying... What do you think?

[Maggie Mae]

Mango -- "EASR"?

Maggie Mae, one of the things I don't quite get about the Milchers' homeplace is the hunting. When they travel miles to get the wildlife du jour, are they hunting on private lands? Government lands? I guinkthats why I was surprised that the homestead was "only" 1 square mile. I'd thought everything they hunted was on their territory. Should've known.

MJB, for whom 1/4 acre is QUITE enough, heh!

I know a lot of people have difficulty with the "size" of Alaska, so here is an interesting (to some people) map of Alaska, placed over the 48 contiguous states. http://imgur.com/AF4CMNc

59% of Alaska's land is Federally owned (222 million acres - California, Washington, and Oregon combined.) 28.5% is owned by the State of Alaska, 12% is owned by Native Corporations, and less than 0.5% is privately owned. Lest you think I'm using google or just know random shit about land ownership - I have a poster that shows me who owns what and where. I've only seen a few episodes, and none with hunting, so I'm unsure if they are traveling to hunt or not. Nor do I know if they have a subsistence permit (most likely not), nor what they are hunting for or when. There are tons of rules regarding hunting, fishing, and trapping. I would say that most people in Alaska don't personally own huge amounts of land.

[MamaJunebug]

Thanks, Maggie Mae! That explains a lot.

One more alaska-obsessed q, please? The family pasture their cattle herd 20-some miles from the houses & barns, -- is it likely on land that the family own, or would they be paying another entity or the state for grazing rights?

Alaska - not only the last frontier, but a place so unlike any I've known!!!

[Maggie Mae]

Thanks, Maggie Mae! That explains a lot.

One more alaska-obsessed q, please? The family pasture their cattle herd 20-some miles from the houses & barns, -- is it likely on land that the family own, or would they be paying another entity or the state for grazing rights?

Alaska - not only the last frontier, but a place so unlike any I've known!!!

Ask as many questions as you'd like.

I have no idea. Other states allow people to graze on public land with a permit, or a charge per animal. And the BLM lets some areas be used for that and not for others. I can't imagine that we would care, as long as it doesn't' disrupt the ecosystem or interfere with native to this area wildlife. Public land is public land, to be used by the public.

Do they ever show them going to Homer or giving tours of their historical homestead? What kind of hunting do they do? Do they have a plane? What happened to all the ex-wives? Where is the juicy tell-all book?

[MamaJunebug]

Maggie, thanks 1 million! And, I'm so excited – – I may have some knowledge to share with you.

You asked about what happened to the ex-wives. You know that Yule's wife left him and married a dude from homeor with the surname Marriott. By the way, please excuse the crazy errors in this message – – working on a tablet with 4 or 5 cats on my lap.

She and Marriott moved to Tennessee -- this was after 30 years of marriage to Yule, so the youngest child was only about 15 or so. That child – – a daughter named Catkin – – did just fine for herself, joining the Marines and retiring with her Marine officer husband and a rank of colonel.

So, grandma Kilcher Marriotte came back from Tennessee to die In Homer just about the time that her granddaughter Jewel was really making a name for herself. Jules mother left Atz, Shane, Jewel & Atz lee when Atz Lee was pretty much prekindergarten, from what I can tell. Her name is Lenedra Carroll, she's got quite a career in new age music and Spirit guiding kind of stuff and has recorded with Jewel. So I guess there aren't any hard feelings there. In fact, she was Jules manager when she got to California. Oh also, she's incredibly gorgeous.

By the way I'm also dictating this, so if anything looks really are I just read it out loud and maybe it will make sense!

So after that,

Atz got involved with the lady and had Nicos and, if I remember right, three daughters. But that lady is not Bonnie. It was his involvement with the lady that got him excommunicated from the Mormon church.

Auto's first wife had a jewelry store that sold local artists works in a cooperative venture, in Homer in a building that auto had owned as a machine shop. There's another son there in addition to Ivan, and that kid has a PhD in some Alaska-ish subject – – I don't think it's to do with wildlife, but with fitness and physiology. I could be totally wrong.

Caught their recent episode and felt more not-like them than ever – – auto flew the plane with Charlotte and August to dig for clams on a beach a couple hundred miles from the homestead. A mama bear and two cubs we're on the same beach, along with another bear that the mama bear was suspiciouscally watching, So the Kilcher's left with about 2 1/2 gallons of clams. Yeah… Living off the land is not cheap in these cases, is it?

Edited to add – – they haven't shown homer so far, at least not in any episode I've seen. Atz Lee did have a sardonic quote up on the discovery website, something to the effect of, yeah here's my family all survivalists and great hunters, and people catch me stumbling out of the stop-n-shop with a package of beef jerky in my hand.

[MamaJunebug]

They also haven't made any mention of the homestead tours, nor of the bed-and-breakfast that the sisters run. However, if you Google Kiltshire Homestead and get to the B&B website, you'll see the same building that is shown as Jane and Atz Lee's abode.

Oh, also – – if I remember right, the ex-wife of auto sold the business some years ago. Apparently she must have gotten the building in the divorce, or something.

[Maggie Mae]

This thread is making me want to go to Homer, even though it's winter.

On clamming - last year was bad for clamming. They could have dug for clams without leaving the road system, but probably wanted to fly somewhere with fewer people looking. Or they wanted something other than razor clams? Did they say if they limited out or not? I can't wait until summer. All of our winter activities are postponed because there is a lack of snow. It's horrible. I can't run outside because of ice. I can't ski because of ice (I could, actually, but I'm not skilled enough). It rained last week. It hasn't even been below 0 since 2013.

And they say climate change is fake.

[MamaJunebug]

They were after razor clams. Otto ate one unwashed, right from the shell. Charlotte was amused but would she let him kiss her with that mouth?

They might've mentioned something about a limit -- seems like a month since I watched it!

[hapamama]

Something else the show never mentions is that Jane is a registered nurse... they always focus on the commerical fisherman part, but I find being a nurse more impressive.

[MamaJunebug]

Jane's an RN!! Good to know. Explains how she's impressed but unintimidated by being the city person amidst the homesteaders -- she's got mad-valuable skills AND she's no stranger to blood & guts.

[Chicken bones]

I really enjoyed their fake Christmas present show. They really made some great items for each other and also made me start thinking about making more handmade gifts next year. And making soup. Shane's soup looked great.

Random thoughts: it's never a great episode unless Jane screams :D .

I always think, on those overly dramatic voiceovers, how they really could just go to Costco in Anchorage or something, and "make it through the winter" if need be. Jane has mentioned online that she goes and indulges at Nordstrom in Anchorage at least once a year.

I thought Nicos was Atz and Bonnie's, but guess not! Also, did any other Atz and Ottos sisters stay on the homestead?

[MamaJunebug]

I think most of the sisters do. Catkin and her hubby built a cabin after they retired from USMC and Sunrise and Weezy (sp?) have had a B&B there for years.

Jane screams, hee!

Heck they could go to Homer and the Save A Ton (sp?) and stock up. And possibly they do, parttime of course. Eivin & Atz are upfront about living a "hybrid" lifestyle.

I find myself getting annoyed when I have to run out to the store for something. Back of my mind, I'm thinking, "What would Ofto cobble together instead of buying new?" So far Ive avoided buying puppy pads for a dog with sporadic control issues and have been cutting up disposable puppy pee pads and 2-sided-taping them into the belly band. It's a start!! Hee.

I have seen about all the cattle drives I can stand, tho. Never have been much into cows & horses.

[Maggie Mae]

I think most of the sisters do. Catkin and her hubby built a cabin after they retired from USMC and Sunrise and Weezy (sp?) have had a B&B there for years.

Jane screams, hee!

Heck they could go to Homer and the Save A Ton (sp?) and stock up. And possibly they do, parttime of course. Eivin & Atz are upfront about living a "hybrid" lifestyle.

I find myself getting annoyed when I have to run out to the store for something. Back of my mind, I'm thinking, "What would Ofto cobble together instead of buying new?" So far Ive avoided buying puppy pads for a dog with sporadic control issues and have been cutting up disposable puppy pee pads and 2-sided-taping them into the belly band. It's a start!! Hee.

I gave see about all the cattle drives I can stand, tho. Never have been much into cows & horses.

They could go to the Safeway in Homer. Or they could drive the 2ish hours to Kenai or Soldotna and shop at Fred Meyer. Or fly/drive to Anchorage. Kenai Peninsula is populated. It's also populated with summer cabins/homes built by people who live in Anchorage and like to have modern amenities, like beer and precut firewood.

However, it's much cheaper to live off the land if you already made the initial investment. And watching Alaskan people stand politely in line at safeway discussing the cost of bell peppers does not make good tv. I hope.

[Arete]

About Otto eating the clam right out of the shell, MamaJunebug: I too, have been guilty of doing that while clamming on Long Island. Oysters and clams in the raw are delicious, if an acquired taste. Granted, I have not done it since my first lecture on bacteria during a high school biology course, but if I had access to clams from beaches near less polluted waterways like Otto does, I would be tempted.

Don't bother with the Browns, they are Amish Mafia level fake. They live in a town and actually commute to the fake camp site to film.