A Saturday With the Moodys (Maxwells)

[formergothardite]

It takes some nerve to book conferences in churches and then use the conference to try and convince people that they will regret it if they continue attending that church. I wonder how many churches would allow them if they knew before the booking that Steve would be preaching against church attendance.

[Jana814]

It takes some nerve to book conferences in churches and then use the conference to try and convince people that they will regret it if they continue attending that church. I wonder how many churches would allow them if they knew before the booking that Steve would be preaching against church attendance.

Got that right!! Some may know in advance & others may not.

[hoipolloi]

With all the ups & downs of FJ, I missed this thread! THANK YOU, Talitha! Great job!

[IReallyAmHopewell]

It's few & far between, but some Episcopalian churches are VERY conservative. My church had chapel veils, confession, and only permitted me & other girls to serve at the altar because they were literally out of boys. I can kneel & genuflect like no one's business (no pun intended). First time I had communion served to my by a WOMAN (in a different diocese) I called my mom & reported I had not yet gone to hell. I seriously had no idea we were considered liberal at all until I was an adult.

Surprising, but possible, especially if the secretary or altar guild or whoever, had not researched them enough.

Some it seems are like far-out ultra-right wing Catholics who simply use an Episcopal Church. Have long since lost touch (20 years) with friends like this--no birth control, homeschool, etc. Just they have the rituals of the church is about it.

[FundieWatcher]

Wow. Just wow.

[socalrules]

I would bet that there are people who go to the conferences because it's held at their church. They don't really know what it's about but they want to support their church. Probably no different than those of us that buy the Friday fish fry dinners or go to the church festivals, except that involves fun. If anything, the Maxwells appear harmless and normal until you actually find out about their crazy beliefs.

[Palimpsest]

Regarding writing to Pastors, around here it probably wouldn't make any difference unless the Maxwells were as notorious as Westboro "Baptist Church." I don't think most churches would care about Steve's religious views. Some churches that need the revenue rent out space to community groups without asking questions. In places where public meeting space is limited and you don't have the budget for a hotel, if you want to hold an event the first thing you do is check with the churches. I hear the Presbyterian Church in my town is dog friendly and would be good for birthday parties for Chihuahuas!

Also, I wouldn't worry about regular church members attending random conferences just to support their church. Community bookings don't usually even show up on the church calendar so church members don't know about them unless they ask. I just checked out the New Hampshire events. Last year doesn't really count because the Inspire! Conference was at the Greenfield Community Center. The Community Center is essentially an old deconsecrated church building that is used like a Town (or rather village) Meeting place.

This year the same local sponsors (Gospelfamilyforum.com) rented space at Merrimack Valley Baptist Church for the Energize! conference. It doesn't show up on the MVB church calendar for September.

I didn't have time to check venues for other Maxwell conferences but I'd be willing to bet it's the same.

Edit because Holy Redundancy Batman!

[thoughtful]

Talitha Cumi, thanks for the research trip.

The first session was entitled Today Children-- Tomorrow Leaders.

Ah, yes -- that lovely Third Reich title.

He said repeatedly "I'm not judging anyone, I'm just saying they'll have regrets so I can scare you into doing things my way."

Next up: fear! America is too fearful. Try going through airport security to see how fearful we are. The rest of the world laughs at how terrified we are.

Pot/kettle! Steve may be one of the most frightened people on the planet.

It's easier to follow a dead prophet, like Moses, which is what the Jews do, rather than a living savior. Because Jesus challenges us to deny ourselves.

Steve really no longer has a clue about other Christians, let alone Jews, does he? Challenging people to deny themselves is not the first thing that springs to most Christians minds when Jesus is mentioned, is it? Does Steve think that things like having no fun and doling out animal crackers make him Godly? Sorry, Steve -- not so.

If that 1 child has 2 children who love God, and those 2 children have 4 each, and those 8 have 8 each, after 10 generations there will be 1 billion, 700 million (and change; I didn't get all the numbers down), and at the 11th generation, the entire world will be Christian.

Steve and Ken need to get together and toss a few numbers around.

Even if none of them changed their beliefs, wouldn't the entire world being Christian only happen if nobody else was having children, no matter how many babies the Christians had?

[jingerdoe]

This thread is the best ever PLEASE keep going. I've always wanted to attend a Teri Organizes Everything seminar by proxy. :shifty:

[hoipolloi]

It's easier to follow a dead prophet, like Moses, which is what the Jews do, rather than a living savior. Because Jesus challenges us to deny ourselves. (I... have no words.) (Okay, yeah I do. Following Moses? Steve, the Jewish people have a rich historical tradition that draws on thousands of years of scholarship and commentary. They THINK about their religion. They discuss it. They argue and persuade. You ignore Christian tradition and commentary and set up your own theories as gospel. Do you really think Jewish people aren't challenged by their religion? Of course you do. Because you don't research. You make assumptions and treat them as fact. And don't get me started on "following Moses." Who do you follow when it comes to gay people? Moses, who wrote Leviticus, or Jesus, who said nothing about being gay?)

Re: bolded - Talitha, for that you win the internet today.

ATTN Steve Maxwell: yes, who do you follow when it comes to being gay? While you're answering, please refresh my memory by citing the exact scriptures in which Jesus Himself speaks about being gay.

[Coco]

Steve and Ken need to get together and toss a few numbers around.

Even if none of them changed their beliefs, wouldn't the entire world being Christian only happen if nobody else was having children, no matter how many babies the Christians had?

Yea and amen! That is another thing these quiverfull folks don't factor in - converts! ONE kid can change the world for good.

Being born into a certain religion doesn't seal a person's fate, just sets their race. (and that may be the ugly truth behind quiverfull).

Seriously, do they ever examine their beliefs?

[anjulibai]

Thanks for this Talitha! I've been wanting to go to one of their conferences and have been hoping they'd be close enough for me to convince my husband to go with me.

Also, I just realized that the numbers Steve has been putting at the bottom of his Seriously posts have been about having exponential children/descendants.

It still doesn't make a lot of sense mathematically, though.

[Marian the Librarian]

"Pumped and excited!" Orlando conference post is up. Anticipation was great, hearts were open, chicken was eaten, Maxwells were blessed. And again, with the side pony tail on Anna - enough, already! :angry-banghead:

[WonderingInWA]

"Pumped and excited!" Orlando conference post is up. Anticipation was great, hearts were open, chicken was eaten, Maxwells were blessed. And again, with the side pony tail on Anna - enough, already! :angry-banghead:

If I hear what a great job Jesse has done one more time, I'm going to scream! Who cares? Jesse, Jesse, Jesse! Why all of a sudden is Jesse such a focal point? He's always lived mostly under a rock until now. Oh, wait, I do remember it was mentioned once that he had a guinea pig.

"All of us greatly were blessed". Homeschool fail strikes again.

[socalrules]

Are the Maxwells the only group on the bill at these conferences they are at or are there a lot of different religious/homeschooling/whatever groups as well?

[16strong]

If I hear what a great job Jesse has done one more time, I'm going to scream! Who cares? Jesse, Jesse, Jesse! Why all of a sudden is Jesse such a focal point? He's always lived mostly under a rock until now. Oh, wait, I do remember it was mentioned once that he had a guinea pig.

"All of us greatly were blessed". Homeschool fail strikes again.

Jesse is out from underneath the rock because either 1. Now that 3 Maxwell boys have "leaved and cleaved," he's the most useful to their brand, or 2. They're trotting him out to get some bites for a potential courtship.

[lilith]

If I hear what a great job Jesse has done one more time, I'm going to scream! Who cares? Jesse, Jesse, Jesse! Why all of a sudden is Jesse such a focal point? He's always lived mostly under a rock until now. Oh, wait, I do remember it was mentioned once that he had a guinea pig.

"All of us greatly were blessed". Homeschool fail strikes again.

Cause he's had to step up and replace dear beloved dearly missed Joseph, who is no longer "immediate family". He's been under studying and preparing for this his whole life!

[bluehydrangea]

Very interesting stuff! Kinda reminds me of when I attended one of the culty "charismatic" churches in my area as a kid to see what they were really up to. The first time was okay. The second time I went, I think my face looked like this for at least a week ---> :o

[shedemei]

You need to know these three numbers: 1, 2, and 8. There is exponential growth in Christian generations. It's better to have 1 child who loves God than 20 who don't. (Is this a dig at the Duggars?) If that 1 child has 2 children who love God, and those 2 children have 4 each, and those 8 have 8 each, after 10 generations there will be 1 billion, 700 million (and change; I didn't get all the numbers down), and at the 11th generation, the entire world will be Christian.

---

Okay, the math thing is bugging the living hell out of me. The pattern doesn't work. 1 has 2, okay. 2 has 4, okay. Then shouldn't it be 4 has 8, 8 has 16? Or each kid from the second generation (8 kids) has 8, and then those 64 have 64 each? I've tried five different ways, and I can't find the number he's using. Who is good at exponents? He's an engineer, he can do math, he must have done something to get the number, but I can't figure it out.

Based on your description, Steve's math is correct and assumes that the third generation is the first to have the standard 8 children. This is a very smart considering his audience, many of whom are new to Quiverfull and may be too old to have 8 children but likely have at least 2. Their children also may be too old to have 8 kids, but may be able to get up to four. Each of your grandchildren and further descendants will have the standard 8 child minimum.

Here's how the math works:

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]0 (you)[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]2[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]1 * 2[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]2[/td][/tr]

[tr=background][td=padding 0 5px; border]1[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]4[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]2 * 4[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][/tr]

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]2[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8 * 8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]64[/td][/tr]

[tr=background][td=padding 0 5px; border]3[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^3[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]512[/td][/tr]

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]4[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^4[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]4,096[/td][/tr]

[tr=background][td=padding 0 5px; border]5[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^5[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]32,768[/td][/tr]

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]6[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^6[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]262,144[/td][/tr]

[tr=background][td=padding 0 5px; border]7[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^7[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]2,097,152[/td][/tr]

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]16,777,216[/td][/tr]

[tr=background][td=padding 0 5px; border]9[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^9[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]134,217,728[/td][/tr]

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]10[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^10[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]1,073,741,824[/td][/tr]

The math assumes that at least the specified number of children in each generation will reproduce, so the actual numbers could vary.

Steve's pitch is also clever and well-targeted at the audience for two more reasons:

1. It shows how much impact your having just one more child will have in the future. One more child means 4 more grandchildren, 32 more great-grandchildren, 256 great-great-grandchildren, etc. By the 10th generation there will be 536,870,912 more Christians.

2. It shows how fast the earth could have been populated just by Adam and Eve's descendants.

[skankbiscuit]

If I hear what a great job Jesse has done one more time, I'm going to scream! Who cares? Jesse, Jesse, Jesse! Why all of a sudden is Jesse such a focal point? He's always lived mostly under a rock until now. Oh, wait, I do remember it was mentioned once that he had a guinea pig.

"All of us greatly were blessed". Homeschool fail strikes again.

I think Sarah has latched onto Jesse since Joseph became extended family only. Or, maybe Steve has read that Jesse is referred to here as "the Forgotten Maxwell" and was told to talk about him some more. :lol:

[skankbiscuit]

Cause he's had to step up and replace dear beloved dearly missed Joseph, who is no longer "immediate family". He's been under studying and preparing for this his whole life!

What about John? We haven't heard anything about what John is doing to help fill in for Joseph! I think John may be courting, as everyone here has said.

[LurkerOverThePond]

A HUGE thank you to Talitha Cumi for enduring this torture for all of us - can't wait to read more!

If there's one fundie family I'd "love" to meet in real life, that's the Maxwells. Nothing compares with their level of insanity.

There has been a lot more photos of Poor Sarah on the blog lately. She's usually absent from the photos, but not anymore. Like someone said here, it's like Stevehovah suddenly realised he has a ticking time bomb in his hands and he has to do something about it.

[anjulibai]

Based on your description, Steve's math is correct and assumes that the third generation is the first to have the standard 8 children. This is a very smart considering his audience, many of whom are new to Quiverfull and may be too old to have 8 children but likely have at least 2. Their children also may be too old to have 8 kids, but may be able to get up to four. Each of your grandchildren and further descendants will have the standard 8 child minimum.

Here's how the math works:

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]0 (you)[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]2[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]1 * 2[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]2[/td][/tr]

[tr=background][td=padding 0 5px; border]1[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]4[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]2 * 4[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][/tr]

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]2[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8 * 8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]64[/td][/tr]

[tr=background][td=padding 0 5px; border]3[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^3[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]512[/td][/tr]

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]4[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^4[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]4,096[/td][/tr]

[tr=background][td=padding 0 5px; border]5[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^5[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]32,768[/td][/tr]

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]6[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^6[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]262,144[/td][/tr]

[tr=background][td=padding 0 5px; border]7[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^7[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]2,097,152[/td][/tr]

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]16,777,216[/td][/tr]

[tr=background][td=padding 0 5px; border]9[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^9[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]134,217,728[/td][/tr]

[tr=][td=padding 0 5px; border]10[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]8^10[/td][td=padding 0 5px; border]1,073,741,824[/td][/tr]

The math assumes that at least the specified number of children in each generation will reproduce, so the actual numbers could vary.

Steve's pitch is also clever and well-targeted at the audience for two more reasons:

1. It shows how much impact your having just one more child will have in the future. One more child means 4 more grandchildren, 32 more great-grandchildren, 256 great-great-grandchildren, etc. By the 10th generation there will be 536,870,912 more Christians.

2. It shows how fast the earth could have been populated just by Adam and Eve's descendants.

I think this is an interesting window into Steve's desires for his own family. I think you are right that the pitch is targeted at those who are becoming fundier.

However, I don't think for moment that his use of 8 children isn't based on the fact that he has 8 children himself. I think his conscious hope is for his children to give him 64 grandchildren.

His unconscious desires get in the way of that, though. Sarah isn't leaving, and even if she married today, she wouldn't have 8 children. I also wouldn't be surprised if Anna and Mary never leave. That leaves the 5 guys in the family. Nathan won't have 8, because Melanie is too old. Christopher and Joseph might, but who knows. And what if John and Joseph never marry?

I think Steve is in la-la land about a lot of this stuff, but it is interesting to see where his mind is going.

[lilith]

I'm absolutely hanging out for the next instalment Talitha Cumi. I realise it must take some time to recover from direct contact with Maxhell, but please, put down the Pepsi, turn off your heathen nursery rhymes, let your ceiling fans collect dust, defrost some burritos for dinner and schedule the time to write the next instalment of Saturday With The Moodys. Many will be blessed, hearts will be opened, gratitude will flow etc etc.

[16strong]

Oh, 64 grandchildren? Hahahaha!!! How young does Steve think he is? Melanie is lucky if she gets one more than the four she has. And considering that Sarah, Anna, and Mary aren't getting married...he's going to be lucky to get 50 grandkids total (but not before he kicks the bucket).