How do VF Followers usually view American History?

[tabitha2]

I mean other than WWII stuff and the myth of true women hood because Deanna Coghlan posted this on FB and it seem oddly rancourous:

I just was randomly struck with a curiosity as to how many of my friends are aware of the fact that President Lincoln was a low, disgusting, godless, lying, cruel, scoundrel who didn't give a flip for African slaves.

I know about the slave part-he said himself he would soon as not freed any slaves-but the rest I don't get.

[desertvixen]

I think most of the ones we follow only look at history for a) fabulous dress-up ideas or b) proof that they're right.

[xDreamerx]

I'm no Lincoln expert, I know a little of him...

The low part I can understand, he grew up in a cabin on the frontier in Kentucky. He was poor and illiterate until his step mother taught him to read. Unless they meant 'low' in a different sense than social status, in which case I don't know.

Godless is kind of a half truth. He was a kind of agnostic/a deist until his son Willie tragically died. Apparently the preacher caused him to experience a religious conversion. He kept a copy of the sermon and from that point on believed God was vested in his life.

The slave thing is not altogether true either. After this experience he became convinced that the Civil War was a calling from God and that he must continue with the effort in order to free the slaves.

He also said this in a letter in 1855 to Joshua Steed:

Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it, "all men are created equal except negroes." When the Know-nothings get control, it will read, "all men are created equal except negroes and foreigners and Catholics." When it comes to this, I shall prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty--to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.

I don't think he was bigoted in the way some people cast him.

As for the rest I don't know. Unless it's the rumour/theory that he was gay.

[pomology]

Certainly without nuance.

Lincoln did care about African slaves. Yes, it's true that he did not support abolition/immediate emancipation until sometime during the Civil War, but he did support graduate manumission and colonization and believed in free labor which was the cornerstone of the Republican Party.

No doubt, also, that the Emancipation Proclamation was a political tool--otherwise Lincoln would have freed the slaves in the border south.

But the longer the Civil War went on, the more Lincoln viewed black chattel slavery as immoral

[tabitha2]

Lincoln wanted to preserve the union at all cost.

would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.

http://www.theroot.com/views/was-lincol ... t?page=0,0

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Lincoln is to date the only president* to put the United States under martial law. Maybe that's what they're thinking of since they're prone to going on about police states and stuff.

*I can't remember if his successors continued the policy, but Lincoln started it.

[Patsy]

I think the kids are surrounded by some vitriolic language, which comes through in their writing. One of the daughters once made a blog post in which she called summer weather "perverted". I was quite taken aback. The word mustn't be as powerful to them.

[tabitha2]

Well the weather in Texas has been creepy-we had no winter last year literally and not much autumn. But still odd wording i agree.

[gingernut]

They demonize Lincoln and use the same sort of "He was a Marxist" language. In my experience with them they get all their anti-Lincoln information from ONE source...Thomas Dilorenzo's book about Lincoln. My son is an expert on the Lincoln/Civill War history and has debated these people over and over again...and I have to say (proud Mom tendencies aside) that he has never lost...they all cut and run. From all my son's interchange they all are brainwashed and won't see it any other way, and when they begin to lose the debate they just disappear.

[Kitten]

"...When the Know-nothings get control, it will read, "all men are created equal except negroes and foreigners and Catholics."

Wow! Lincoln was also a psychic! This is exactly where the Tea Party politicians and their fundamentalist Christian SOTDRT know-nothing supporters seem to be headed. :D

[Anxious Girl]

In cases of Doug Phillips; people like him view history as an excuse to host time-period appropriate cosplay parties! *Dougie's a tool*

[Elle]

Certainly without nuance.

Lincoln did care about African slaves. Yes, it's true that he did not support abolition/immediate emancipation until sometime during the Civil War, but he did support graduate manumission and colonization and believed in free labor which was the cornerstone of the Republican Party.

No doubt, also, that the Emancipation Proclamation was a political tool--otherwise Lincoln would have freed the slaves in the border south.

But the longer the Civil War went on, the more Lincoln viewed black chattel slavery as immoral

Right. A person's view on an issue can genuinely change. With Lincoln, his position changed greatly.

[Elle]

Lincoln wanted to preserve the union at all cost.

http://www.theroot.com/views/was-lincol ... t?page=0,0

Right, but this doesn't mean he supported slavery. The Civil War is often painted as a war that was all about whether or not to free slaves. A bunch of white guys from the north, even abolitionists, weren't going to charge into a war whose sole purpose was to free black people. Even in the north blacks didn't enjoy equal rights, though they usually had it a hell of a lot better than blacks in the south could even dare to dream. Lincoln was initially more focused on preserving the union, but his position on slavery changed pretty drastically as time went on. I've actually read it said that he could be compared to someone who is pro-choice but wouldn't have abortion - he wouldn't own slaves against his will, but others can decide for themselves. I don't know how fair of a statement that is. We have to keep in mine he was a politician, and politicians sometimes have to support, as far as laws go, what they personally are against, like how we expect our conservative lawmakers who believe homosexuality is a sin to set aside what they personally believe about the issue to support gay rights. At the time, slavery was still considered to be an issue for the stats to decide, and asking him to issue a federal ban on slavery was to ask him to intrude on what as seen as a right for the states to decide. We are seeing this right now with gay rights. Defining marriage is seen as a right for the states, and we have a president who supports gay rights. However we are asking him to both uphold federal laws (which consider marriage a states issue) while also expecting him to make gay rights a federal right. If he takes away the right from the states, there are those who will condemn him. By not, there are those who condemn him. In Lincoln's time, there was literally war going on on US soil, making it a hell of a lot trickier to handle.

Lincoln was NOT pro-slavery. As I understand it, he didn't prefer to have slaves growing up but was more meh about it. Do what you want. But then he became increasingly convinced that it was an outright deprivation of human rights and was wrong. But he also became president and had to balance following the laws and effecting change. He knew slavery was wrong, he also knew it was legally a states issue, and a deeply divisive one at that that threatened to destroy the nation and split it into two. He was between a rock and a hard place.

[Terrie]

I think the kids are surrounded by some vitriolic language, which comes through in their writing. One of the daughters once made a blog post in which she called summer weather "perverted". I was quite taken aback. The word mustn't be as powerful to them.

Perverted: changed to or being of an unnatural or abnormal kind.

Maybe it was a statement in support of global warming. :lol:

[CanadianHippie]

Perverted: changed to or being of an unnatural or abnormal kind.

Maybe it was a statement in support of global warming. :lol:

Or maybe she was talking about all the wimmin folk walking around in shorts and t-shirts because of the heat!

[GenerationCedarchip]

I mean other than WWII stuff and the myth of true women hood because Deanna Coghlan posted this on FB and it seem oddly rancourous:

I know about the slave part-he said himself he would soon as not freed any slaves-but the rest I don't get.

Yikes - that sounds more like the kind of stuff I'm used to hearing from hardcore Confederacy apologists rather than your average VF Dominionist - though some of these groups do have overlap. For an idea of the kind of stuff VF types believe, I'd recommend checking out books like The Light and the Glory - that book and its two sequels are favorites among reformed fundies.