Ten Year Old's Letter On NGJ

[ladypuglover]

Here's how this would've played out in our family.

The child is too full to finish her pizza.

If it doesn't have any bites in it, we'd put it back in the box.

If it has a few bites:

a) Mr. Hisey or I would eat it, reasoning that it had very few calories because it wasn't ours to begin with and because a few bites were taken out

or

b) the child would be asked to wrap up the pizza for her next day's school lunch. The child would be very happy, because the next day's lunch would be something unusual (we rarely pack pizza for lunches)

or if it's summer vacation. . .

c) the child would be asked to wrap up the pizza, to be eaten by her when she is hungry. The child would wrap it in aluminium foil, and mark it with her name and some cute misspelled warnings about how no one else should touch it. ("Please dunt EaT or els! Beelogs to me")

No hitting necessary at all.

Same thing at our house but we rarely have pizza leftovers that only missing a few bites. My 4th son always wants a Philly steak pizza from Dominos and it comes with mushrooms. He says he hates mushrooms and will pick off each one and either give to me or his dad. Not a big deal that we have to order a whole pizza to suit his tastes as we do it for all the kids and my husband and I eat what the kids eat and we don't care that he doesn't like part of the pizza, we do and #4 fixes it up where he does like it. No problem.

[Kaylee]

[i was apparently a precocious little shit about things like this. When I was in elementary school, my bus route was the absolute worst in the entire school. There were weekly fights to break up, weapons, sexual harassment, and general chaos, most of which was due to the fact we picked up all the kids from the projects on our route. One day the bus driver got fed up and gave the entire bus pink slips due to the fact some of the kids were being so unruly (ie- not me or the other kids from my stop) So I took two of the other kids from my bus stop and went to the city Mayor's office to complain about it. To this day, I don't know what I thought the Mayor could do about it or why his office actually humored us, but I did get to meet the Mayor, so it wasn't all a wash. My mom was freaked out when I told her about it after the fact.

I love that - you sound like me. We had a teacher who would give the whole class silent lunch (no talking & assigned seats) even if only a few were acting up. I wrote a letter about how mean and unfair it was to those who were behaving, then sent around a petition that most of the class signed, to give to the principle. Of course, he gave it to the teacher and I got in trouble over it.

With the Pearls, that's the kind of stuff that really freaks me out (and what turned me away from thinking spanking was acceptable, thankfully before I had a child). It's all about control and punishing the child for not being perfect and it's like the adults set the children up for failure just so they can punish and/or impose their will on them.

My son asks for food he can't finish pretty often. Lie others have said, wither we eat it, he feeds it to the dogs if it's something they can eat or, most often, if gets wrapped up and goes in the fridge for a snack later on or lunch the next day. They'd probably hemorrhage if they ate pizza with rugrat - he eats the toppings & cheese off, then has t have garlic butter or ranch to dip the crust in or he eats only the top and give the bread to us or the dogs.

[Elle]

Punishing everyone is just plain wrong. What my parents did was make the punishment more severe when whichever of us did the wrong was discovered because lying compounded it. If we were caught doing wrong, we got into trouble. If we weren't caught and lied about it and were discovered, bigger trouble. if we weren't caught but 'fessed up, the punishment was less than if we'd been caught because my parents acknowledged that it takes a measure of morality to admit to doing wrong knowing you're facing a punishment, so so that honestly was rewarded while the wrong was still punished.

It is concerning that a child would be too scared to admit to being full.

[Hisey]

That story about Shoshanna has always haunted . . .

The fear of the five-year old when her mother discovers the cut hanging. The way her fear must have increased each day she is asked about it.

Her internal struggle--knowing she should be honest (that's what God wants) vs. knowing she will be hit. The courage of her confession--I'm sure she had previous experience with the plumbing line (and would you want to tell the Pearls you had done something wrong like that?). Then, getting hit for 14 days straight. What were those days like for her, what did she think, how did she cope?

I could never understand how Debi Pearl could get up every afternoon--on day 6, day 11-- pick up the plumbing line and go after her five-year old. No longer angry, she must have been after revenge. How dare my child trick me, how dare she fool me for two weeks?

What a sicko.

[Koala]

That story about Shoshanna has always haunted . . .

The fear of the five-year old when her mother discovers the cut hanging. The way her fear must have increased each day she is asked about it.

Her internal struggle--knowing she should be honest (that's what God wants) vs. knowing she will be hit. The courage of her confession--I'm sure she had previous experience with the plumbing line (and would you want to tell the Pearls you had done something wrong like that?). Then, getting hit for 14 days straight. What were those days like for her, what did she think, how did she cope?

I could never understand how Debi Pearl could get up every afternoon--on day 6, day 11-- pick up the plumbing line and go after her five-year old. No longer angry, she must have been after revenge. How dare my child trick me, how dare she fool me for two weeks?

What a sicko.

Well Debbi will get old one day, and god help me all I can say is that I hope she and Michael are treated just as they treated their children.

[SamuraiKatz]

Well Debbi will get old one day, and god help me all I can say is that I hope she and Michael are treated just as they treated their children.

On the AC360 report, Debi looked bat shit crazy and years older than she probably is...and Micheal...he looked and sounded like a whack job... I feel so sorry for the Pearl kids...and this child whose only crime was lying to prevent the inevitable...

[Buzzard]

I just cant wrap my brain around this!

1 - Beat ALL the children because obviously one of them is lying. Since you cant figure out who, hit them all? How does this teach anything? You can be an obediant child and still get your ass kicked!

2 - The kid finally fesses up and the punishment is doing the dishes... so... why not just send them all to bed without cookies until someone fesses up? How does hitting ALL of them make any sense when the "ultimate" punishment is a rational one?

[dianapavelovna]

That story about Shoshanna has always haunted . . .

The fear of the five-year old when her mother discovers the cut hanging. The way her fear must have increased each day she is asked about it.

Her internal struggle--knowing she should be honest (that's what God wants) vs. knowing she will be hit. The courage of her confession--I'm sure she had previous experience with the plumbing line (and would you want to tell the Pearls you had done something wrong like that?). Then, getting hit for 14 days straight. What were those days like for her, what did she think, how did she cope?

I could never understand how Debi Pearl could get up every afternoon--on day 6, day 11-- pick up the plumbing line and go after her five-year old. No longer angry, she must have been after revenge. How dare my child trick me, how dare she fool me for two weeks?

What a sicko.

It haunts me as well. I work with abused children, so I make a habit of reading their histories and trying to put myself in their position and understand what they might have been feeling. But I hate the fact that this child's horrible experience is proudly trumpeted as a success and a model of child-rearing. Ugh.

[Elle]

I just cant wrap my brain around this!

1 - Beat ALL the children because obviously one of them is lying. Since you cant figure out who, hit them all? How does this teach anything? You can be an obediant child and still get your ass kicked!

It also teaches, "Well, if I'm going to get whipped with pipes, may as well take the others down with me."

[Buzzard]

It also teaches, "Well, if I'm going to get whipped with pipes, may as well take the others down with me."

As if thats not fucked up enough... the fact that they then forced (or brainwashed) this child into writing a "thanks" letter to Mr. and Mrs. child abuse...

[Olivia]

The ten year old's parents are nuts, but at least there was an alternate punishment (the dish-washing) afterwards instead of more spanking. The Shoshana story is the one I can never get past. I can't imagine spanking a five-year-old A MONTH after whatever they did wrong. I also can't imagine setting a kid up like that, asking them every day if they did something and giving them the opportunity to lie again.

I don't think much of spanking, but honestly, it's the vindictiveness and lack of feeling towards one's child that shocks me there.

[Buzzard]

The ten year old's parents are nuts, but at least there was an alternate punishment (the dish-washing) afterwards instead of more spanking. The Shoshana story is the one I can never get past. I can't imagine spanking a five-year-old A MONTH after whatever they did wrong. I also can't imagine setting a kid up like that, asking them every day if they did something and giving them the opportunity to lie again.

I don't think much of spanking, but honestly, it's the vindictiveness and lack of feeling towards one's child that shocks me there.

Agreed. That wasnt about punishment. It was about power, control, and fear.

[tacky]

These accounts make me so sad for the children. The idea of a child living in fear of being punished, even for something they had no part in, makes me feel sick.

[QAF_Rocks]

I think a lot of these people are sadists. Either that, or fundamentalism has driven out any sense of compassion or decency.

[DistantStar]

I was always afraid as a kid that I was going to get into trouble for things that my parents didn't actually care about, so I'm not sure her hiding the pizza is indicative of bad parenting.

Any parent who takes the Pearls as anything other than an evil cautionary tale is already well and truly guilty of bad parenting. So, in this case, it most certainly was. Obviously your or my parents would not have responded this way to hidden pizza, and neither would I if it were my kid. But I don't blame a kid in a Pearl household for acting oddly out of terror.

[apple1]

My kids are grown now. But I had a "conviction" of this: I never put my kids in the position of needing to lie to me if it could possibly be avoided. If I knew they had done something that I didn't want them to do, and I talked to them about it, I flat out told them that I knew that they had --- whatever it was. I didn't ask them if they had done it. There was no reason to put them between a rock and a hard place, in which they would feel a need to lie about it.

As adults in the workplace, we are taught that when there is conflict, that part of working it out involves maintaining respect for all parties. That principle help in child raising, also.

[theologygeek]

Here's how this would've played out in our family.

Here's what happened yesterday. I made foot long Philly cheese steak subs for everyone with $15 a pound roast beef.

Me: Are you sure you're going to eat this?

Man Child: Yes

Me: Why don't I make mine first and you try it before I make yours?

Man Child: You slather yours with onions. I don't like onions.

Me: But the roast beef was $15 a pound. I'd like to know if you're going to eat it before I make it.

Man Child: I'll eat it.

---

Man Child: I don't like it.

Me: I'm putting you up for adoption to a family in Philly.

Man Child: As long as they don't serve cheese steaks.

[snarkykitty]

deleted bc I'm too aggravated about this.

[nolongerIFBx]

The Pearls and those who blindly follow them are clearly missing (or dismissing) the verse in the Bible that says "It is not good to punish an innocent man"- Proverbs 17:26 (many versions don't specify man (adult) so I don't think they can argue that children are exempt). The verse continues with an admonition not to punish someone for doing good which I don't think would be stretching it to take that to mean punishing innocent siblings for another sibling's wrong.

[snarkykitty]

That story about Shoshanna has always haunted . . .

The fear of the five-year old when her mother discovers the cut hanging. The way her fear must have increased each day she is asked about it.

Her internal struggle--knowing she should be honest (that's what God wants) vs. knowing she will be hit. The courage of her confession--I'm sure she had previous experience with the plumbing line (and would you want to tell the Pearls you had done something wrong like that?). Then, getting hit for 14 days straight. What were those days like for her, what did she think, how did she cope?

I could never understand how Debi Pearl could get up every afternoon--on day 6, day 11-- pick up the plumbing line and go after her five-year old. No longer angry, she must have been after revenge. How dare my child trick me, how dare she fool me for two weeks?

What a sicko.

Can you point me to this story?

[Hane]

In middle school, my daughter had dinner with the fundie-lite family of a classmate. Because she is nauseated by the very idea of mayonnaise, she politely said "No, thank you" to the potato salad--and was treated to a string of passive-aggressive comments about how "OUR children eat what they're served."

Later, when watching TV, she dared to express approval of an animal-rights organization (pre-PETA) shown in a commercial. The parents rebuked her with some Biblical shit about "Man being given dominion over all creation by God."

She thought, "Whatevs," and had her friend visit us instead.

[dawbs]

Can you point me to this story?

I think it's this one (link broken, JIC):

nogreaterjoy.org/articles/the-power-of-a-story/

[snarkykitty]

I think it's this one (link broken, JIC):

nogreaterjoy.org/articles/the-power-of-a-story/

Thank you!

[bananacat]

In middle school, my daughter had dinner with the fundie-lite family of a classmate. Because she is nauseated by the very idea of mayonnaise, she politely said "No, thank you" to the potato salad--and was treated to a string of passive-aggressive comments about how "OUR children eat what they're served."

Wow, that's harsh. Stories like this make me glad for how good my childhood was. I had a similar experience but it turned out the exact opposite way. I was at a friend's house and I knew it was the polite thing to eat whatever is offered, but I simply could not force myself to eat peas. I just couldn't do it. So I politely declined and my friend's grandma actually praised me on my politeness. And this was an "old-fashioned" Italian Catholic family, not fundie-lite but not really mainstream either. This is one more reason why I am so glad I did not grow up in a fundie household.

[lindsey]

One thing that strikes me about the Shoshanna story is that a 5 year old would even get to the point where she's telling a story about how a strange man came to the house and cut the hanging AND keep that story up for 2 weeks.

I can honestly say that I can't remember a single time where I or any of my siblings would think of something like that. Sure, we might say we hadn't done it, we might say "I don't know, why don't you ask sister/brother?" but never make up a stranger who broke into the house and did it. But then again my mom never hit us with plumbing line for hours on end, not even the time that my brother somehow managed to paint a whole wall with crayons.

It just tells of how scared she must have been not just for herself but also for her siblings.