Courtship story through pictures

[JesusFightClub]

Thanks JFC for your response, I agree the parent's response is weird weird weird and completely socially odd - however I still maintain that playing is the way that children process events, whether they happen to them or whether they hear about them, and that playing is not about trivialising events. If I told youngish children about the killing fields of Pol Pot or about the holocaust, I would expect them to play about it afterwards and I would not stop them from doing so. Adults talk, children play. And hearing about something like the holocaust for the first time (and later times) can be something that needs processing - I know when I hear about something horrific I want to talk about it, doesn't matter that it didn't happen to me.

None of this says that what is going on in ths blog is healthy or normal, it sounds completely screwed up and inappropriate. The point I'm trying to make is just that a child playing about an event does not meant they are trivialising what happened anymore than am adult talking about something does. And I may be weird but if I took my children to the holocaust museum or an exhibition about genocide I would probably be encouraging them to play about it afterwards, to help them explore their feelings about it and to help me see what their thoughts had been about it.

I agree.

Kids do play through trauma and to understand events. Like I say, Small (my Small Relative) does it. She has not had the easiest of times. Play seems to be her way of understanding things.

So no problem in principle, I just do not get the boasting. If a kid is doing it, you wouldn't be like OH YAY online? When Small does her thing I have to go and cry sometimes, because fucking bourgeois sentimentality. Why would a person brag their kids were playing a Holocaust inspired game?

[ladypuglover]

First off I think the courtship party was infantile and was meant to remind these young adults that they are still infact children in the eyes of their families. I didn't have an engagement party but there were plenty of times were I had invited boyfriends over/or out for dinner with my family. Even as young as 14-15 years old my parents would treat us as young adults and lay out the good china and would talk to us as young adults. At that age my parents did keep an eye on us the entire time but as an adult things loosened up with the watchful eye. But the point was the fun of dressing up and using company manners and having a wonderful time getting to meet each others families by being treated as a person mature enough to have a relationship with the opposit sex. I'm not seeing the maturity here from any of the parties involved.

Second, kids play dumb games as you know but a lot of times it is what they are exposed to. My older brother as a small child was very good friends with a German boy whose mother had lived during WWll in Germany. My mother and the other mother were enjoying a talk over coffee one day when the little boy yelled to my brother "Come on Johnny, lets go kill us some Germans!" My mother was horrified but knew they were both on the "right" side and were just acting out stories the little boy's mother had told him. The German mother was not a nazi nor was her family and they had to live in terror because they didn't agree with Hitler.

Third, I agree that kids learn through play but this? I can remember being a toddler and seeing an older woman with numbers tattooed on her left wrist. I asked my mother about it and was told that a long time ago there were some bad people who had rounded up people they didn't like and placed them into camps with barbed wire around it. They tattooed them to make sure they couldn't escape and if did could be found. My mother told me that this lady lived during a horrific thing and surrvived and was now safe and free. Then my mother changed the subject. I can remember that because of the intensity of that certain day, I felt so sad for that woman, we bought my favorite dress and we were in Denver which was a rare treat. I never forgot that woman (or my ultra cool dress which said woman admired on me) but I didn't need to play a game to remember her. My mother didn't tell me anything that my 3 yr old mind couldn't handle and as I grew old I was a little more each time I asked about what happened to the Jews. I was given books and we would talk for hours about what happened and how that must never happen again. We never had any joy from it and the subject was always treated as somber and hallowed and with great respect for those who lived and/or died. I never need a game which is different from Anne Frank's play to remember that horrible time.

[ohpotteryourotter]

It's not showing for me, they must have taken it down again.

[JesusFightClub]

LPL, I apologise for invoking Small again (I do not think she would thank me) but she saw her mum seriously injured and her mum died. She also knows domestic violence and what being addicted to drugs means. She plays out these themes. Small is five years old.

I struggle with it but can see if playing a game would be how a child deals with the huge reality of the Holocaust, it would make sense. I just don't understand why the parents would boast or even mention it?

[Anise]

I think the difference would be that in dealing with trauma, children would play a game in order to understand what had happened. In this case, it sounds like the kids are playing that game for fun.

But what do we expect? The adults celebrate the Titanic, and the kids play Holocaust. :(

[mockingbird]

Yeah, I have no issues with kids acting out something traumatic that they experience or have exposure to, since I agree that play is a way kids process things. I didn't see the original blog post but the quote makes it sound like the adults are the one organizing the game or at least strongly encouraging it and it doesn't seem like the first time this has happened - "While we cleaned up the kitchen, the little people begged for a round of Jews and Germans. The young men were glad to accomodate." I'm assuming "young men" means like the teens and adult men? Playing to work through trauma is good, playing to process something you read is good, teens and adults making the Holocaust into a regular family party game is just sick. I don't think kids' play is trivializing because they don't know anything different and it's a normal way of processing things. I do remember playing disturbing/sad/traumatic things I read (and experienced) with my dolls. However, adults making it into a game IS trivializing it because play has a different connotation for adults. It's not how you process the world anymore and you SHOULD be able to understand the severity of what happened. But yeah, like with the Titanic thing, not sure you can expect more from these people.

[Kitty]

LPL, I apologise for invoking Small again (I do not think she would thank me) but she saw her mum seriously injured and her mum died. She also knows domestic violence and what being addicted to drugs means. She plays out these themes. Small is five years old.

I struggle with it but can see if playing a game would be how a child deals with the huge reality of the Holocaust, it would make sense. I just don't understand why the parents would boast or even mention it?

I don't think these particular kids have that kind of knowledge about the Holocaust, though, and since they're in a fundie family they probably don't. That's why the parents are boasting it and mentioning it- they don't care. I don't think there's anything wrong with the game itself, that's like saying kids can't play Cowboys and Indians- the name itself invokes some ugly imagery and taints what would usually be a harmless kids' game. But Germans and Jews? Why not call the game cops and robbers, or apples, or something else?

[ladypuglover]

LPL, I apologise for invoking Small again (I do not think she would thank me) but she saw her mum seriously injured and her mum died. She also knows domestic violence and what being addicted to drugs means. She plays out these themes. Small is five years old.

I struggle with it but can see if playing a game would be how a child deals with the huge reality of the Holocaust, it would make sense. I just don't understand why the parents would boast or even mention it?

I see a difference between Small and other children. Small did live that life and her play is her way with coping what her young mind can't understand yet. I did it myself by performing surgery and giving shots to all my dolls. My poor dollies looked like they lived in ICU because that was my world. I understand, it is how children deal with issues to big to understand. But these kids are doing something different, they and their parents or even grands didn't live through this horror. They are not acting out a game or play to understand what happened to people but for the thrill of playing a game. I think they are 2 very different kinds of play. One is healing and the other insensitive to others.

I never lived during the 1800's inspite of what my kids say. But my friends and I would act out Little House on The Prairie by pretending we were driving a covered wagon or living in a soddy. For awhile we even acted out the horror of the Donner Party but not in jest. Children will pretend play to understand something that books or movies that doesn't get through. Children learn, live and heal through play. Play and play acting is very important to children as you already know. But we reacted to life we thought the Donnors lived to try to understand how it all happened. When our parents found out they did their best to tell us the truth and understand that the Donner party did everything in their power to survive and not to remember them as cannibals but as people who were in a worse case scenario. Again wetaught to treat that subject with respect.

I'm not seeing how they are treating anything on the subject by playing Germans and Jews. And not all Germans were nazis or even felt that way. This game disrespects everyone and everything straight across the board.

[NurseNell]

I think the difference would be that in dealing with trauma, children would play a game in order to understand what had happened.

And in time the kids would move on to new games.

If my kids started playing a game called this I'd want to know why, we'd discussed it, and change the name.

[GeoBQn]

It looks like they've made their blog invitation-only. They must have felt awfully persecuted, constantly having people point out the incredibly naive/insensitive/anti-semitic things they do . . .

[kb2]

Although nothing bad ever happened to me as a child, I remember playing a violent rendition of Cinderella with my barbies. I think it's normal for kids to be a little weird (from an adult's perspective) about bad things.

But for the game to be mentioned on the blog, the adults in the situation would have to be really unaware. Fundies are notorious for crying "persecution" while living in countries with unlimited religious freedom, so I wouldn't expect them to have a lot of perspective. Of course they turned a devastating historical event into a game of capture the flag. Of course.

[Beammeup]

I can't even imagine a place where that game would be ok. Rounding up the Jews and putting them into box cars!!! Do they even care what happened when those box cars were unloaded? The level of the cultural isolation and superiority needed to even think that this game is ok is astounding.

If they want to play a hide and round 'em up game play Dog the Bounty Hunter. (yes I know he's got his own problems.)