How many FJ's were home schooled?

[Fundilicious]

I am a grade school teacher (or I should say was as I stayed home this year when I had my 2nd baby). Being in the school system I could see the potential of homeschooling at least through grade school for sheer academic reasons.

Since being in elementary school as a child, schools have changed drastically. I have taught all grade levels between Kindergarten and 4th and each grade is pretty much the same. Reading (scripted mind you), math, and maybe a half hour of science. Children are given very limited times for exploration or reading for pleasure. When I was a child, my classmates and I would love going to the library once a week to pick out books to read for fun in class. The kids I taught were a pain to even line up at the door for library. Much is attributed to the fact that the reading program was so excessively rigid and scripted that the children were either uninterested, too high level, or too under level.

Maybe it's just me, but I found things like history/social studies, art, and science to be some of my favorite areas of study in elementary school. S.S. and art have been pushed out the door and science is given a measly 30-45 minutes. The science our district used came in a box and was incredibly scripted.

Anyways, all school districts are different. But I don't believe our district is stellar by any means and has tainted the way I feel about the public school systems ability to successfully teach our youth to the capacity they *should* be taught. Anyhoo just another perspective I figured I would throw in there.

[Conuly]

Fundilicious, did your kids at least still get recess? (Recess time is proven to improve test scores, but more and more schools are cutting it down "for testing reasons". Stupid, stupid!)

[MerryHappy]

I was home schooled for most of my education. My kids will all attend public school.

[Fundilicious]

@Conuly - Yes they still had recess but it is changing. The younger grade school kids "K-2" used to get two 15 minute breaks (morning/ afternoon) and a 30 minute lunch recess. The older students "3-5" only got one break and one lunch break. Now the younger kids only get one break and a lunch and the older kids only get their lunch recess.

It's a shame, not only for the reasons you listed, but because 5-9 year olds have a difficult time sitting for long periods of time. The curriculum was not very exploratory. Much of it was seat work, so those 3 breaks a day were very much needed for the kiddos to get out their wiggles and just socialize and have fun. I wouldn't be surprised by the time my kids are in school only a lunch break was given for all grades. But I'll remain optimistic and hope that isn't the case. :)

[darareaksmey]

Not only was I not homeschooled, I did not know anyone who was homeschooled. Hell, I didn't even know anyone who went to private school till I was a senior in high school and a family moved in across the street who sent their kids to Catholic school downtown.

My kids attend public school. When our son was small and we were making decisions about what to do, we considered Catholic school for him. Then we learned of a great math- and science-focused elementary public magnet school and got him started there. It's the best thing we ever did. We saved thousands, we did not have to get more involved in the Catholic church (which DH was wont to distance himself from) and our kids got a well-rounded education in a diverse setting. We've moved to a better school district in the past couple of years and haven't even needed to work the system to get into a "better" school--all the schools in this district are good.

I could never homeschool my kids. I am no fan of structure and I'd never be able to get them to focus on things that didn't interest me. In general, I've been happy leaving my kids' education to the professionals.

[Spider Burps]

I know you weren't asking me, but I took gifted and honors classes all through school, so I kind of know the answers. We had gifted classes in my elementary schools, then the honors and/or IB stuff in middle/high school. I just had an IQ test (long story short, I qualify for Intertel, which explains my chronic boredom and lack of drive--until I find something cool, then I become a walking encyclopedia entry), but I hear they can do other tests if they think you're otherwise gifted and your IQ isn't above a certain level.

Our gifted classes (which were in addition to the normal classes) focused on stereotypical "geeky" stuff: computers, rockets and space, robots, etc. We weren't allowed to get too far ahead of our "average" classmates, so we just did busy work. I never studied or did the homework (unless it was something I was interested in) for my normal classes, but I suppose I had read enough during my free time that I had picked up the info somewhere because I got straight A's until high school (when I stopped going to school most of the time because I was bored). If someone says something aloud to me, I can remember it exactly, so I probably picked up more from class than I give it credit for... Perhaps other "gifted" folks have a similar ability? First year of high school, I went to a school with the IB program, but then I got sick of all of the straight memorization that my school required and started sleeping in class. In order to quell my boredom, I switched to spending mornings at a school for artistically gifted kids where I studied creative writing, but, again, I didn't feel like doing the work.

I don't know if the gifted programs were really as challenging as they should be. It could be because I was in South Carolina, but it seemed like any kid that could spell "apostrophe" was labeled gifted in elementary school. :lol:

[takers401]

I feel very fortunate in that our area has excellent schools. (We are actually on some list as having the most or close to the most PhDs per capita.) My husband was home schooled through second grade and is pushing a bit for me to homeschool our children. As I have a few friends who are doing so I've discovered we have a school affiliated homeschool program (you work with the school for sports and non-core classes like art/music/pe) which seems to be what a lot of people choose to do if they aren't going the religious texts route. I've given it a look, but am thankful I have a few more years before a decision needs to be made.

[Islandmom]

I wasn't...but I am homeschooling DD. I had an awful time in K. I was bored out of my mind, and introvert, and couldn't stand it. If my school life had continued like that I would have begged my mom to homeschool me. However, I got tested, put into the magnet (advanced public school) and into the gifted program in that school, and my life took off. I loved school, although I still was not a fan of the social issues, bullying, mean girls, middle school was especially hard for me.

My daughter has been identified as profoundly gifted (way more so than her mom and dad...we seriously don't know where this child got it from). We will are homeschooling mainly because there are no schools like I attended here, and our school basically told us we should homeschool. When you have a 5 year old reading and comprehending highschool level material and obsessed with quantum physics, the school runs in the other direction. But you know, I get that they are geared for what the majority need so I am okay with that. I have no problem with regulations for homeschoolers and think there should be more oversight. We have teacher through the state and submit written educational plans each year, submit work samples, do testing, and get a transcript from the state. All good things in my opinion. No SOTDRT could get through the process.

[Tempehst]

I went to public school. I went to an "open magnet" for elementary school (which allowed students, parents and teachers to set goals for the student and allowed a lot of individual freedom). In middle school I was in the Pre-IB Program and then in the IB program for high school. After that, college was EASY. Academically I did well, socially not so much. There was a lot of teasing up through middle school as well as bullying. In high school I just had my group of friends and decided the best way to ward of bullying was to just not talk to anyone outside of that group--ever. It seems to have worked though I'm not sure it was the best solution.

Then I read John Holt's books when my nephew was struggling in third grade and decided I would homeschool. I still want to home school but I have my doubts. At this point, I want to homeschool through middle school and then hopefully have the money to ship the kids off to boarding school for high school :)

[Guest Anonymous]

Not me. I attended public school. AFAIK nobody in my family was home schooled, but I do have a cousin whose son has severe ADHD, and is being home schooled because the public school wasn't helping him. My cousin isn't fundie, and actually has a degree in elementary education.

[Just_Jane]

I was thinking about if I would homeschool any kids I have. I'd say that I would not do so unless there was an issue with the schools or unless my child's individual needs made it necessary. I just don't think I'd have the patience and the structure for it particularly in those early years. If I had to then I would do it.

[Conuly]

I just don't think I'd have the patience and the structure for it particularly in those early years. If I had to then I would do it.

If necessary, it is allowed to hire somebody else to teach your child. It's a very old-fashioned form of education, like all those regency books where young girls have to live as governesses, but there you go.

[Nesomja]

I'm intrigued by how many of you say you were IQ tested and then placed in a gifted programme - I'm in the UK and IQ tests are almost never used in schools as they are not considered useful tests of anything! The biases due to class and race are too large, and it is clear they test where a child is now, not necessarily their potential. Has anyone read Malcolm Gladwell's 'outliers' for a criticism of gifted programmes (basically he says if you select a group of children and give them more interesting lessons and extra support they will of course come out the other end differently to other children, and this enrichment should be available to all children, not just those who do well on an arbitrary test at one moment in their lives). When I was younger there were no gifted programmes and I was bored through most of school, reading under the desk, however I then did very well academically at university and as a post-grad, would that have been any different had I gone to a gifted programme I wonder?

Having said that I am considering home schooling my son because he is very very active and I can't see how he will cope with 6 hours at a desk, plus I would like to save him the boredom if possible. I would employ others to help though, because I work and also because one of the attractions of home schooling for me is that I could employ a French speaker to look after him whilst I work and he can be bilingual, in the early years there will no need for the carer to do any formal schooling, they can just do activities and trips together. In fact my plan is to delay formal learning if possible- I see no need to teach young children reading/writing etc and lots of countries don't start until they are 7 or 8 with no problem. This is controversial in my family as my mother taught me to read aged 3 and by school I was an obsessive reader and was years ahead - I'm just not sure that was helpful for me in the long term, I'd have rather played more and done more language learning, since that is something young children are really good at and which is harder later on.

[JesusFightClub]

Nesomja, I am 30 and this was many years ago now in my case! I am glad if IQ tests are not used nowadays, I find them scary in the extreme. I remember absolutely panicking at some of the questions. My thought process was like "I am trying to be a good girl and answer right but I don't understand the question at all."

Later in life I had a similar test to measure various skills. By this point I was just confused. I understood exam questions like "Describe the conditions which led to a cholera outbreak in...". That is a question with a solid answer. I didn't understand the questions which ask "How would you arrange these shapes..." "Which of these patterns is different..."

First of all I can't understand where the shapes and patterns go. Secondly, nowadays I realise it was a diagnostic test but as a kid I had no clue why I was asked. What shape is out of sequence here? Who the fuck cares? Why is this important?

In real life people don't come up to you with a bundle of shapes and tell you to put them all in boxes. So I could see where the answer might be sitting but it was beyond my mental reach and I couldn't see the practicality.

[Itsnotaclowncar]

Nesomja, entrance to my school's gifted program was based off your grades, teacher recommendations, and if your parents called and wanted you placed it in.* The program didn't do enrichment so much as speeding up the curriculum, for example the gifted program took Pre-Algebra in 7th grade and everyone else took it in 8th. We did a lot more work and a lot fewer of the fun activities and field trips that the lower levels did. A fair amount of people moved in and out of the program especially in high school, although the people I knew that got kicked out were intellectually capable but just not willing to keep up with the workload. Personally I really support the separation, it was the first time I got any attention from teachers. The kids who did really well were generally ignored otherwise. Language classes and gym/health weren't separated and they were very frustrating to be in. Being around other gifted kids was an environment that encouraged and expected us to go to college and not just the local community college or local mediocre state school. Not having that expectation or encouragement at home, I don't think I would have done as well without it.

*The tracks went Gifted program-college prep-regular-remedial

In middle school the gifted program and college prep was pretty full an so the school would randomly throw people in regular and remedial classes, which would require a parental phone call to fix. Despite having straight As in gifted classes in 7th grade my 8th grade class schedule was originally regular and remedial classes. I was bored out of my mind in gifted classes I can't imagine how bad it would have been to sit in a remedial classes.

[JesusFightClub]

I can tell you what remedial/special ed is like. Boring as shit. (Sorry, this topic is worrying me a bit as I have a relative who will start school in September.)

I have no problem with typing. I can't spell but I check the words first and see if they look like they're doing the right thing. If I am not sure I type them into Google or put a (sp) next to them so I do not look ignorant. It is not a big problem.

However my handwriting never progressed much beyond the childlike stage. I can't join up letters and if I physically write in real life it takes me ages and it is a real trial. Spelling is harder too.

If I type all of the letters look clear on the screen. When I handwrite I am decipherable but it looks like a child's scrawl and I often misspell. The letters which are much clearer on screen or in a book are difficult to reproduce when I write.

So! I got the special ed (more than one reason, but that was one). Let me tell you, sitting at a table when you are 17 hearing your special ed teacher saying "Well done, JFC! You wrote P really well there!" is not something I would wish on anyone.

[freejoytoo]

I was never put in a remedial class but had awful handwriting (still do!) which was way behind my level, so I had to go to a workshop run by this bitchy woman. I really, really hated it and felt patronised. It did improve my handwriting in that now it is actually legible, but man I hated that workshop. On a brighter note, I had a maths tutor for about a year and I LOVED her. That was in the mid-late ninteties in the UK.

Never had an IQ test at school but I did one online once. It only caters for one way of thinking. I think I got an average mark, I can't remember exactly.

I would never homeschool my child unless it was for a very, very extreme reason, simply because I don't think I would sufficient skills to teach. I could probably cover up to secondary school level but then I'd be stuck. My Maths and Science skills aren't the greatest and honestly, I don't think I'd have the patience to have my hypothetical child there with me every second of the day and getting them to learn (which may sound horrible but I think it would lead to strain in the household). I'm also not sure how they would meet children the same age if they weren't at school.

[pixydust]

I was homeschooled (1st-12th) and I homeschool my 3 kids.

I'm one of those who actually loved being homeschooled! I was a self starter and I learned a lot. There were def holes in my education, so I do things differently from my mother, and it's working for us. My oldest went to public school from k-part of 4th grade, he had a bad bullying situation and begged me to homeschool him. He's in the 6th grade now and doing pretty well, but I am still finding holes in his education from public school. The goal for 7th grade is to fill all of those holes.

The holes from my education are mainly from using fundie based homeschool curriculum, so the science was Bible based and the history was revisionist :oops: , so NatGeo, Science, and History channels are my friends. I'm still learning a lot. :dance:

[Boltingmadonna]

JesusFightClub said:

My thought process was like "I am trying to be a good girl and answer right but I don't understand the question at all."

I had a kid like that. She had an IQ test at 5 because we were considering sending her to a school that required it. The tester was a very nice lady who knew my parents, so she talked to me afterwards. She said the first half of the test was non-verbal, and that she'd never seen a child solve the mazes and block puzzles so fast. My girl took one look at them and went zoom, straight to the finish. Then the tester asked the very first question on the verbal section. It was "What kinds of things come in bottles?" My girl looked worried, finally said in a very small voice "Milk . . . and beer!" The tester said she smiled, and immediately realized she'd made a mistake. My daughter thought she was laughing at her answer, and clammed up totally. She would not say one word after that. The tester said that based on the first half of the test, she figured my daughter's IQ was somewhere above 140, but she couldn't give her a score because she wouldn't answer the rest of the test. And she was a lot like that all through school!

I'm guessing that you fall into the category of highly intelligent, with an unusual learning style that the school wasn't prepared to deal with. So, of course it's easier to dump you in a category they do understand. I hope I don't sound patronizing, because I'm sure you've figured yourself out by now--but don't ever let other people tell you what you are. I have a really good friend who is "dyslexic," which is another one of those categories. People always told her she was stupid, but she isn't. She's one of the finest people I know, an amazingly creative artist, and a master in tae kwon do, even though she had to tattoo one hand so she could tell left from right. No test can define the value of a person.

So as not to be totally off topic . . . I offered to home school my daughters because their public school was very dull, and ruled by the rich kids. They turned me down--preferred to be with their friends in the swim of things even if it wasn't the best education. I did teach all four of my children to read before they went to kindergarten, though. I figure once you learn to read for yourself, that's one thing they can't take away from you.

[NoQuiverNoCry]

I attended public school from K-12 in what was considered to be the "best" public school district in the U.S. Grades 2, 3, and 4 were excellent. Each of the others would fall into a continuum ranging from "complete waste of time" (Grade 5, our alcoholic teacher sat and drooled at his desk while we ran amok) to "welcome to the warzone" (court-ordered busing for integration in the DC suburbs in the 70s resulted in completely unmanaged dissension; daily violence at my jr high included rapes and knifings). Mixed in with all that were the usual bad stuff: bullying, ridiculous drug availability, sexual relationships between students and teachers, etc. My parents refused to send me to private school; they felt it was their civic duty to support public schools, period. When I graduated, I told myself my reward for endurance was I *never* had to look back. I ended up with a 4.0 average and ran like hell to college. Now my FB friends want to relive the fun of those days, and I can't get into that. Memories like routinely skipping school to spend the day drinking & smoking at the beach are tainted with the reality of what we kids were forced to accept educationally, and I'm still angry.

I HS'd my daughter for 5 years out of necessity--the local schools weren't working for her, no real private options, and we couldn't move. I saw a lot of good and some bad in the HSing circles. Good HSers were the norm, and they offered their kids excellent, tailored educational and social experiences. If you're doing it right, there's no problem with socialization in HSing, except when you have to reign in your kid's social obligations so she'll complete her coursework. The slackers I met came from both fundy and non-fundy homes. Ironically, the worst one I knew involved the (non-fundy) daughter of a public school teacher: she "unschooled" her 11-yr-old basically to the point of neglect. We typically avoided the fundy HSers, mostly because their kids were frequently out of control--think howler monkeys, en masse. But the failures in the fundy HSers were obvious too, even to us. One difference, though: the fundy HSers we knew refused to acknowledge--much less address--the failures in their midst, whereas our support group included parents who spoke up, loudly, when they perceived a problem. The teacher mentioned above took offense when asked about her daughter's educational options. DSS was ultimately involved, and the daughter was returned to public school. It's sad to think of how many HS failures were simply perpetuated.

[VVV]

Haha, I can semi-answer this one. I had to write an essay first to see if I was gifted (and it was hidden) or just really thick. They showed me a picture of some shit (I recall it as being stick figures outside a house but this may be wrong) and I wrote a story about it. Can't remember what I wrote.

Then you get the IQ test. Which went dramatically pearshaped in my case. I have had quite a few of these in my career through life. I score in the low eighties. So they abandoned "gifted but hiding it" and went for "really thick" ;)

The difference is day and night really. In advanced English at my school you would be expected to read Shakespeare and the like whereas in the lowest track, you get printed handouts in big writing and write about how you feel about them.

And then there's Special Education, where I did me time ;) A few classes a week. I would be sat next to an 11 year old boy, at the age of 17, painstakingly copying out sentences from a book and listening to a sweet older lady talk about my spatial difficulties. So that was the lowest rung of the ladder, but there were marked differences.

I did OK in languages but I was enrolled by force into Maths For The Thick (er, it wasn't called that, but). Counting is the limit of my abilities to this day, and I still count on my fingers. We had a very embittered teacher who would rant on about how we were all going to end up on the dole anyway. I bet that didn't happen in advanced maths :D

I heard they did parabolas.

JFC, I've seen you post this before about your IQ being in the low 80's, and I don't believe it. Your writing in your posts alone belies it. My guess, from both the quality and the content of your writing, is that you have a high verbal IQ but some specific disabilities in math and spatial abilities that must have brought your composite IQ score down. Or else that whoever administered your tests misinterpreted them.

The math equivalent to dyslexia is dyscalculia--you may be interested to know that C.S. Lewis had this. He never could pass a math test in his life, and was only admitted as a student to Oxford because of his WW I veteran status--vets were exempted from the entrance exams--he would never have passed the math part. And his mother had been a mathematician.

I'm in no way a professional and am not qualified to interpret IQ test scores, but there is no way that your overall ability to learn and comprehend is below normal.

Edited to clarify quoted material. Edited again because I typed "dysgraphia" while thinking "dyscalculia." Dysgraphia is difficulty with handwriting.

[michmcl]

Both my husband and I went to public school- had good/average experiences. I do homeschool my three kids ages 6-16. I guess the biggest reason I homeschool is that I want my kids to enjoy learning. It is also nice to be able to teach to their learning styles. The nice thing about living in Florida is they have a Virtual School and my oldest son has taken several classes online ( it is run by the public school). They also take classes from a group we are in- the science teacher is working on her Masters and they do tons of experiments that I wouldn't do at home. We evaluate year to year- we are not opposed to putting our kids in school if that what would be better for them. My oldest son (15 yrs.) opted not to go to high school- although we offered it to him. He will dual enroll at the local college next year to get his High School diploma and AA degree.

I am a Christian and I grew up in a very strict home- not much choice in anything. While my beliefs are at the core of what I do - I realize my kids have to make their own decisions- I do not want to shelter them from real life- After all, God gives us a free will, and Jesus hung out at sinners' houses...so why would I shelter them or "force " my kids to believe?

I realize people all have their own school experiences and they can be positive or negative anywhere they attend.

I once read an article by a woman who taught in public school many years and then decided to homeschool. The common thread she found for successful students was the parent involvement in education- there are parents who are integral in their kids education in all types of schools- and there are parents who do the minimal or nothing for their kids education( homeschooling included).

[emmiedahl]

JFC, I don't believe it about the IQ test either. Class and general life experiences factor heavily into IQ results and they only test for certain types of intelligence. Exhibit A: you have read and can comprehend the complex theories behind communism. I have read some of the great Marxist classics and found them difficult reading even with a university degree and significant literary background. My IQ has been tested a few times and comes out in the low end of the genius range. So if we are reading the same materials and comprehending on the same level, then there is clearly a problem with the test.

Back to the school issue, I am having issues getting children 2 and 3 into our district gifted program. The district offered to place #2 in one 2 years ago but I felt that 2nd grade was too early for tracking and she needed a bit more "normal classroom" time. Now it is like pulling teeth. She scored poorly on the last test (by poorly, I mean in the 93-95th percentile while she needs to be in the 97th) because she was sick that day. Now she is about to enter middle school and I very strongly want her on the Honors track. Her teacher agrees that she can handle it, but now we are at the ghetto school and not the stellar one so she has not even been taught many of the things on the test, which is not an IQ test but merely a grade level placement exam. I am trying to figure out what is on the test so I can teach her the concepts but it is difficult. Apparently it is top secret information or something. :roll: No one from our school ends up in Honors and I don't think it is a coincidence. My son tested into it right away when he re-entered after homeschooling.

School tracking is something that I have complex and ambivalent feelings about. I understand and agree with the arguments behind it. But I look around my kids' school at recess and know that they are not receiving the same education as the schools a few blocks away, and that they will thus be placed in non-college-prep tracks when they hit 5th grade. It's not right for living in the wrong neighborhood as a child to determine whether you will take the classes you need to get to college. It's just not right. I can try to fight it for my own children but I wish I could fight for every one of their classmates.

[JesusFightClub]

Boltingmadonna, your daughter sounds super brainy! I have a friend like her. He was always fine to do written tests, but at oral ones, he just freezes (even though he gets the ideas). How did she deal with it?

Emmiedahl, I totally agree with you about losing tracks based on socioeconomic background. I can write an essay on this and am very tempted to. I hope all of your kids get to be where they need to be!

I learnt recently that a job I applied for requires an IQ test ("cognitive skills test") and I am worried to say the least. They sent me a sample question and it was the bloody shapes again. I have no clue why they are even asking me this stuff, is sorting shapes a key component of the job? No. Is it a component of anyone's LIFE, if you aren't three?

So looked at the question. It shows you four boxes with triangles and that in them and asks you which is incorrect. I don't know! They all look OK to me, is it a trick question?

*sigh*

[clibbyjo]

Boltingmadonna, your daughter sounds super brainy! I have a friend like her. He was always fine to do written tests, but at oral ones, he just freezes (even though he gets the ideas). How did she deal with it?

Emmiedahl, I totally agree with you about losing tracks based on socioeconomic background. I can write an essay on this and am very tempted to. I hope all of your kids get to be where they need to be!

I learnt recently that a job I applied for requires an IQ test ("cognitive skills test") and I am worried to say the least. They sent me a sample question and it was the bloody shapes again. I have no clue why they are even asking me this stuff, is sorting shapes a key component of the job? No. Is it a component of anyone's LIFE, if you aren't three?

So looked at the question. It shows you four boxes with triangles and that in them and asks you which is incorrect. I don't know! They all look OK to me, is it a trick question?

*sigh*

JFC, we are going to have to help you study! Could it be you are a right brained learner? http://www.rightbrainedlearner.com/ All 3 of my kids(the girl less than the boys,but still all 3) and myself are right brain learners which is the main reason I homeschool. I know how to deal with right brains because I am one.