The heartlessness... you might cry - Lewis

[emeraldskull]

Lewis put up a post about the emotional connection between him and his ex-fiancee. I knew before that many of the "courtship" "submission" "patriarchal" people seemed pretty uncaring, but now I realize that if they seem that way online, they most likely ARE in real life. You can read what he had to say about it here:

thecommandmentsofmen.blogspot.com/2011/07/joke-was-on-me-emotional-intimacy.html

The cruelty and heartlessness just blows my mind. I am a professing Christian, and I can say with certainty these people do not follow the same God I do. Their god is perfection and control. It just leaves me shaking my head. Who treats ANYONE this way, much less their own children? It's like they expect their kids to be robots, and when they aren't, they get punished for it! Ugh.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I sometimes wondered if it was poor Sarah Maxwell he was courting, then found out who it was. Hard to imagine a family colder than the Maxwells but apparently they are out there if you know where to find them.

[Artemis]

I've just read it and I did cry. Which family was it? The girl's family, I mean?

[emeraldskull]

I've just read it and I did cry. Which family was it? The girl's family, I mean?

I don't know... Lewis hasn't revealed their names, to protect their privacy. Though I know a few people have dug deep enough and found the family...

[fundiefan]

There is enough information available that makes the family relatively easy to identify.

[DamnPrecious]

Yeah I found her a while ago. He posted at the old board. That is not the only place he's ranted. I think he's a bit disturbed.

[DamnPrecious]

factnet.org/vbforum/showthread.php?s=1a5917962d6136b9aa4b6efb8f394042&t=13329

[Effie]

Well... I think he really loved her.

[onlyorganic]

...honestly it makes me angry that he posted all of this. I know very little about him and only skimmed the story but he reveals some very personal information if you read between the lines.

The girl deserves better than to have those details smeared across the web, especially since his beef doesn't seem to be with her so much as the family.

[emmyfair]

Reading what he wrote there .... he does seem terribly wraped up in what happened. I do have compassion for his situation though. It sounds like this event was a more than just a hearbreak, and different things can traumatize different people in all sorts of degrees. I was assaulted eight years ago, and I rarely think about it now. I was also verbally attacked by my ex-fiance's mother in a horrible way, and I am just coming out of that soul-crippling expereince with lots of work know. I do have to hand it to them, fundies are usually fantastic at tearing people down and making them feel worthless. Words are so powerful, too, and it's impossible to see the extent of the damage. I wish him well in his recovery.

[onlyorganic]

I don't know... Lewis hasn't revealed their names, to protect their privacy. Though I know a few people have dug deep enough and found the family...

The attempt at being all anonymous was thin-veiled...it's like when someone posts photos with Mickey Mouse and captions reading "Went to a quaint mouse-themed amusement park" gets pissed when a commenter replies "Oh, you went to Disney World?" If someone has put all of their info out there, they can't get mad when it's so easily found. If Lewis wanted to rant and rage I'm sure he was aware people could easily find out who the girl was, and that was what I think was a bit insensitive.

[emmyfair]

If Lewis wanted to rant and rage I'm sure he was aware people could easily find out who the girl was, and that was what I think was a bit insensitive.

I do agree with you there.

[debrand]

I think that some of the comments under this article express how courtship can go very wrong.

http://thecommandmentsofmen.blogspot.co ... rchal.html

Blue Beaker writes"

Everything you've never thought your parents would be, they'll be. Everything you've never thought your parents would do, they'll do."

This was heartbreakingly true in my courtship experience. I entered into it with innocence and high expectations, feeling blessed that our parents were graciously helping my suitor and I along a "better way" to marriage than we could find on our own. Yet the courtship was so much about them, their reputations and relationships. With horror, I made the discovery that these things were more important to my parents than my peace and feelings.

It was a huge blow psychologically. I began having dissociative spells and self injuring, became severely depressed, and was plagued by frightening suicidal ideations. I know to some this will seem unbelievable, but suffering through these things seemed preferable to taking a stand for myself and rocking the boat. After all, I wanted to be an honoring, submissive daughter who made my parents happy. Perhaps sacrificing my mental and emotional health was a small

price to pay.

[emeraldskull]

I do agree with you there.

I agree with you as well. I didn't know who the family was simply because he doesn't name them on the blog I quoted above, and I had never searched for them before. Having googled it today, it is very easy to figure out just who it is.

[demgirl]

I actually think Lewis has walked a fine line between telling his story, which I'm sure is therapeutic for him and also really exposes the seedy underbelly of this movement, and protecting his ex-fiancee's privacy. Yeah, you can find out who she is if you try hard enough. But you have to put some effort into it and frankly, the main way to figure it out is from a video that she and her family left up on the web. If they are that worried about it, they should have taken steps to remove the video.

I'm curious how much blowback Lewis gets from fundies that aren't related to his ex and simply hate his blog. I'm willing to bet he takes a lot of shit for it.

I would also respectfully say that for those who think he should just move on, this man was a victim of the patriarchal movement in much the same way that ex-quiverfull women are or ex-daughters of the movement. I don't think there is a consensus that they should just move on -- in fact, we applaud their efforts (at least as a general proposition) to expose the abuse that goes on in the fundie world. I do think Lewis' emotions are still very raw and that comes across in his writing. I hope that he can heal from his experiences, but I don't begrudge him his hurt. Sometimes I think that maybe I would not be so raw with the emotions this much time removed, but then I remember that they were engaged and that meant something to him that it doesn't necessarily mean to me -- a lifetime commitment from the time the engagement started -- a covenant in front of God, if you will. That's serious business for a true and devoted Christian. I think it's telling it was much more serious to him than it was to his fiancee's father.

[meda]

I go back and forth about this guy and his blog. On the one hand, he is someone who was deeply hurt by patriarchy, it seems like his grief and pain are quite sincere. Also, it's great that he has a blog that discusses these issues and gives a platform for others to tell their stories. I believe several FJers have guest posted there about their experiences with the patriarchy.

However, I wish he would stop and examine his own privilege a little, because the detailed rehashing of his broken engagement strikes me as a power play cloaked as a morality tale. Lewis himself was brought up as a conservative Christian and makes a living (I think still) as a "Christian" musician. He is also male, so he pretty much wins in that little world by default. I have never read anything that he has written which acknowledges the position of greater power and privilege he held over his ex simply by being an older male in that culture. The girl is married to someone else and has been out of his life for several years. Obviously she was terribly hurt by what happened, and is still trapped in that life. She lost, and badly, so why not let her keep a little privacy?

[debrand]

...honestly it makes me angry that he posted all of this. I know very little about him and only skimmed the story but he reveals some very personal information if you read between the lines.

The girl deserves better than to have those details smeared across the web, especially since his beef doesn't seem to be with her so much as the family.

Is it someone we've discussed? I can't figure it out myself

[SunnyAndrsn]

I found the ex-fiance's name quite easily and that's saying something, as I'm no cyber sleuth.

I know Lewis posts here, so I won't post any links. Again, very easy to find, found the name in less than 5 minutes.

Is it someone we've discussed? I can't figure it out myself

[onlyorganic]

Obviously she was terribly hurt by what happened, and is still trapped in that life. She lost, and badly, so why not let her keep a little privacy?

You're reading my mind... it just seems to me that Lewis is forgetting there was another human being with feelings and emotions involved.

[antifundie]

I have to say I'm with team Lewis on this. Yes, he ranted but he was very very hurt.

I think the pain of the courtship model causes far more harm dating (usually) does. Most normal people know that when they are dating, they might date several people, and they will experience some heartbreak. It's not pleasant, and sometimes it's shattering, BUT, you also kinda see it coming--or at least know it's a possibility.

With courtship, you are basically told that you WON'T feel that pain, and that once Daddy gives his blessing, your life will be hearts and flowers.

For example, I was told that the courtship model was what I was supposed to do. When it didn't work out (in my case, no guys came around) I was pretty bitter--at 20, 21 years old, I had no idea how to date because I'd never expected to. I felt that my parents had lied to me--basically saying, "Don't worry, we'll take care of it"--except they didn't.

So, not only is Lewis dealing with the heartbreak of the loss of a relationship, he's also dealing with betrayal from a system that told him he would NEVER feel this pain--so he was emotionally blindsided.

When you're not given the skills to deal with that, (by not being "allowed to have crushes, to flirt, and so on) it's, well, it can be pretty raw.

On a side note, should I ever have children, I will encourage them to date so they can practice good emotional hygiene. Boy dumps you? I want to be there with tissues and a trip to get manicures. Girl making you miserable? It's ok to break up, to take some time to wallow and write sad songs. These were skills I did not have.

[emmiedahl]

I think he has a right to post about it. I mean, the details identify the ex-fiancee, but he took reasonable precautions not to have her name all over the internet.

It's his story, too. We would not criticize a woman who dated, say, one of the Phillips boys and then talked about the failed courtship later, even if it became obvious who she was talking about. You have a right to speak honestly and openly about your experiences with a cult, even if it means that some members are exposed.

[Patsy]

And for another point to Lewis - reading the comments, it's obvious that a lot of people can glean something of value for their own lives and healing from his writing.

[Annette]

factnet.org/vbforum/showthread.php?s=1a5917962d6136b9aa4b6efb8f394042&t=13329

O. M. G. This endless ranting without an audience is disturbing.

[onlyorganic]

We would not criticize a woman who dated, say, one of the Phillips boys and then talked about the failed courtship later, even if it became obvious who she was talking about.

My feelings wouldn't be any different were this to be a girl telling about a failed courtship. I think in telling how the family made his relationship a nightmare he also shared a lot of details that should have remained private. Just my opinion though. He does have every right to tell his story.

[Rosa]

The thing that tips it into "he's beefing with her dad when really he has no idea whether she loved him back or not" is the age difference - didn't we figure out on the yuku board that he's like 10 years older than she is?

A lot of young women don't know how to say no to someone just because they don't like him, and grope around for some excuse. I can totally see a courting fundy girl getting cold feet and saying "Dad can you tell him no?" I have NO IDEA what was going on there, and my guess is neither did Lewis because women in that situation are so trained to act like everything is peachy and never acknowledge their own feelings - it could be just like he said, it could be just like that scenario I just made up, or it could be something completely different.

The calling out of the dad after the whole thing is over is just too reminiscent of two bulls left in a herd of steers, to me. It's still that creepy patriarchal triangle with the woman on the bottom while the equal relationship is between two men.