Gay Kids. If You Were Christian, Bullying Wouldn't Bother Yo

[debrand]

The point of the "It Gets Better" campaign is ostensibly to encourage kids who are victims of bullying. But in order to eliminate this kind of bullying, our culture thinks it necessary to identify evangelical Christians, who believe what Scripture teaches about human sexuality, as contributors to the "climate of hate" in which such bullying can occur. This identification is, of course, a form of bullying. Natch.

But here is the difference. This project for LGBTs is a sentimentalist one, which means it is filled to the brim with various forms of guilt and resentment. It is not just a function of being picked on.

If it were just simply that, there would be a way of handling it. Christians have had their own "It Gets Better" program in place for a couple thousand years. When a believing teen is tagged as a Jesus freak and ostracized by others for his faith, he has a long history behind him of honored saints and martyrs. He is truly honored by a real community for doing something right, which is a genuine encouragement. It is an honor to be dishonored for the faith; it is a grace to be disgraced (Acts 5:41). You cannot get the same results by having a fake community try to praise and encourage you for doing something you are deeply ashamed of. So a word to conflicted teens -- whenever you believe lies, it never gets better. It only gets deeper and darker.

The author's writing style is not very clear but apparently, he thinks that the reason kids get upset by bullying is that they aren't Christians.

I've noticed that certain groups such as Calvinists, men's rights proponents etc. are fond of classifying any opposing viewpoint as emotional, or in this case sentimental.

It is logical for a parent to expect that their child will be educated in a school and not drive to suicide by other children. That expectation is not emotional, but is based on fairness and decency.

Certainly, individuals can believe that homosexuality is wrong. Those same individuals can not use that belief to harrass another person.

[debrand]

dougwils.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8764:like-what-regular-people-does&catid=84:sex-and-culture

[Marchpane]

Seems he's saying that basically it serves these kids right for not being heterosxual Christians? What a nice man! :(

[debrand]

Seems he's saying that basically it serves these kids right for not being heterosxual Christians? What a nice man! :(

That is what I gathered, but I didn't know if I misunderstood the writer.

[DistantStar]

Well, that goes down as one of the cruellest pieces of advice I've ever seen in my life.

It's like they have no idea that one can be both a Christian and a flaming asshole.

[lilah]

Nonthinking hausfrau posted something similar about the it get's better. She said we shouldn't tell gay kids that their lives will get better because they will probably get STDs, die of AIDS or commit suicide (hmmm maybe the suicide rate is higher for GLBT kids because of bigot assholes like you? Hmmmm?)

I'm not breaking up the link. I don't care if Laura Wood knows that I detest everything she writes about.

http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/201 ... -campaign/

[Jessica]

If bullying shouldn't bother Christians, why do so many Christians have a persecution complex?

[Austin]

If bullying shouldn't bother Christians, why do so many Christians have a persecution complex?

Exactly. And most of the ones who are "dishonored" or "persecuted" who attribute it as being because of their faith actually just suffer from being terminal asshats, which is the real reason for any negative attention that comes their way.

[GenerationCedarchip]

If bullying shouldn't bother Christians, why do so many Christians have a persecution complex?

Speaking as an escaped fundie, I can tell you that we spent years in Sunday being taught that to be Christian is to be persecuted. You learn about the history of the early church and the many martyrs to the cause. Seen through that prism, every restriction put on the exercise of the Christian religion (no prayer in schools, not being able to sing Christmas carols in public school, employees being told to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", etc..) is shown to kids from elementary school on as examples of the many ways in which modern society is trying to marginalize Christians and Christianity. These examples all get tied back to the teachings of the New Testament about how Christ's followers will be shunned and persecuted. Enough years of that teaching, and it's surprisingly easy to fall into the persecution complex mindset -and it's something that takes years of looking at the world from the outside to undo.

[JesusFightClub]

Speaking as an escaped fundie, I can tell you that we spent years in Sunday being taught that to be Christian is to be persecuted. You learn about the history of the early church and the many martyrs to the cause. Seen through that prism, every restriction put on the exercise of the Christian religion (no prayer in schools, not being able to sing Christmas carols in public school, employees being told to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", etc..) is shown to kids from elementary school on as examples of the many ways in which modern society is trying to marginalize Christians and Christianity. These examples all get tied back to the teachings of the New Testament about how Christ's followers will be shunned and persecuted. Enough years of that teaching, and it's surprisingly easy to fall into the persecution complex mindset -and it's something that takes years of looking at the world from the outside to undo.

Ah! This is very helpful, thanks :) It's something which I have found very confusing.

There's a central point I just don't get. I'm a revolutionary socialist. With that political belief we expect that we exist in a state of class warfare (it's a bit more complex but this isn't really the place). So I'd expect capitalists to behave like bastards. Notable outrages are, of course, noted, but we're on a war footing. We're not expecting those who oppress the working class to be *nice*.

The fundies are in a really weird place. Their religious belief tells them to love their (from their perspective) opponents. They can't seem to do that. What they do instead is to build the "opponents" in their minds into a huge horde intent on oppressing them everywhere, from funny looks at the grocery store when you march in with your 12 kids in identical clothes to disagreeing with them politely on the Internet. LGBT people oppress them by existing. People who don't agree with them oppress them by existing.

We celebrate our martyrs and fervently wish there were less of them. They celebrate their martyrs and fervently wish there were more of them, so much so that they make up huge extra categories of martyrdom.

I just don't understand the mindset.

[Crackedeggs]

JesusFightClub:

They don't see death as the end. They see it as the rebirth of one's new life. Yes, there is pain and all that other messy stuff, but if you " really" loved Christ, you'd jump at the chance to die to "glorify" his name. How that is any different from suicide in some cases perplexes me, especially if the case is a woman refusing the medical care we have available to have a baby at home, and dies from it , or the baby dies, or a woman who knows a pregnancy could kill her, getting pregnant anyway.

[debrand]

We celebrate our martyrs and fervently wish there were less of them. They celebrate their martyrs and fervently wish there were more of them, so much so that they make up huge extra categories of martyrdom.

American fundies want to believe that they are persecuted. Acknowledging that other faiths exist and showing respect to different beliefs has become their definition of persecution. That is why a clerk saying, Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas makes them angry.

Some people HATE homosexuals. I don't mean that they are uncomfortable with homosexuals. I mean that they hate them.

I have wanted to tell this story on FJ but I hesitated to do so. After NY passed the law allowing gays to marry, I was with a group of friends. These people had always seemed normal to me. One person brought up the decision in NY and the level of hate and anger in the room was frightening. Not only was I shocked but I felt very uncomfortable saying anything. One man said that homosexuals should be taken to the front of the war so that 'enemies' could shoot them. Another woman did say that she disagreed with hurting anyone. Her words helped me to change the subject but for a moment, I thought these people, who I have known for years, would just increase in anger.

Its hard to describe how furious that these people became. One of them has a gay daughter and yet, he was outraged also. The reason that I haven't brought that up before is that I don't know how to describe what I observed. It was very strange and scary. I should have spoken up but the outrage was so sudden and unexpected that I felt blindsided. Plus, it was scary.

But it was as if they felt that gay marriage in another state was an attack on them personally. They aren't fundies and not all of them attend church.

[Guest Anonymous]

Exactly. And most of the ones who are "dishonored" or "persecuted" who attribute it as being because of their faith actually just suffer from being terminal asshats, which is the real reason for any negative attention that comes their way.

They need to get a grip. Escaping from your homeland 5 steps ahead of the secret police, having to conduct worship services underground because your faith has been outlawed and seeing your church burned to the ground by an ignorant mob are persecution. Being called an asshole on the Internet (especially if you are) is not persecution, it's snarkery. Learn to a. tell the difference and b. be grateful you don't have to LIVE the difference.

[JesusFightClub]

JesusFightClub:

They don't see death as the end. They see it as the rebirth of one's new life. Yes, there is pain and all that other messy stuff, but if you " really" loved Christ, you'd jump at the chance to die to "glorify" his name.

Thanks Crackedeggs! This must be it, the missing piece in the puzzle :(

They're stacking up...something...to be redeemed later. Like a store's advantage card.

That is, really, kind of gross. :shock:

[JesusFightClub]

Debrand, I am glad you told your story though sad it happened...

Extra layers of confusion...these people weren't fundies but they were that angry? Totally weird. Disapproval or disagreement is one thing, but raw anger I don't get.

What are your thoughts on why these people reacted like that?

[Childless]

Anybody that gets angry over something that doesn't affect them in the least has a few screws loose in my opinion. Don't those people have more important things to spend their energy on? You know family, work, friends, etc. Hatred is a wasteful emotion that doesn't harm anyone but yourself.

[tehgoobster]

They need to get a grip. Escaping from your homeland 5 steps ahead of the secret police, having to conduct worship services underground because your faith has been outlawed and seeing your church burned to the ground by an ignorant mob are persecution. Being called an asshole on the Internet (especially if you are) is not persecution, it's snarkery. Learn to a. tell the difference and b. be grateful you don't have to LIVE the difference.

Exactly!

[debrand]

Debrand, I am glad you told your story though sad it happened...

Extra layers of confusion...these people weren't fundies but they were that angry? Totally weird. Disapproval or disagreement is one thing, but raw anger I don't get.

What are your thoughts on why these people reacted like that?

I have no idea. They are conservative but I had never considered any of them to be very political. We've never really discussed world events.

The group was made up of people who were either related or attended the same church. Only one couple attend church every Sunday though. The rest were nominal Christians, I thought. They aren't fundie because they aren't against women working or attending college. Also, they don't dress like the fundies that we cover. Occasionally, they curse too. They do pray before they eat but we're in the south. Religion is a part of life here.

It was strange and I felt blindsided. I also feel guilty for not speaking up and stating my opinion.

Maybe the problem is that I only have a superficial friendship with some of these people, so I was not aware of their true feelings.

[apple1]

I have no idea. They are conservative but I had never considered any of them to be very political. We've never really discussed world events.

The group was made up of people who were either related or attended the same church. Only one couple attend church every Sunday though. The rest were nominal Christians, I thought. They aren't fundie because they aren't against women working or attending college. Also, they don't dress like the fundies that we cover. Occasionally, they curse too. They do pray before they eat but we're in the south. Religion is a part of life here.

It was strange and I felt blindsided. I also feel guilty for not speaking up and stating my opinion.

Maybe the problem is that I only have a superficial friendship with some of these people, so I was not aware of their true feelings.

debrand,

My guess is that these people have a lot of fear about what they do not understand-- helped along by the Faux-news-crap-talk the-end-of-life-as-we-know-it about the new law.

Some people literally do not know anyone who is gay (most likely not because none of their relatives or acquaintances are, but because it is not made public to them), or because they cannot reconcile someone they know who is gay with the above mentioned crap talk. I am not a psychologist, but the human mind and emotion has difficulty with having multiple "realities" (quotation marks important) that do not reconcile with each other. I'm kind of thinking that the situation fits this category. None of this excuses anything, just a possible explanation.