Yep, The Pearls Still Advoate Spanking

[debrand]

I had hoped that the Pearls were beginning to advocate using methods other then spanking for most children.

I was wrong.

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/ge ... f-a-story/

I have to give the writer credit. She is engaging to read.

When she was five years old, Shoshanna-the youngest Pearl child- cut awall hanging and lied about not doing it for two weeks. When she finally admitted, her mother spanked her everyday for two weeks. :? That seems like overkill even for people who beleive in spanking

So Shoshanna got a spanking every day for two weeks—the number of days she had lied. And every day Mama Pearl reminded her how more than anything we wanted her to walk in truth. And that’s the story of why it is important to tell the truth.

I agree that stories can be a tool to teach kids. But spanking for two weeks? I don't see how that will teach a child anything except to not confide in her parents.

[liltwinstar]

So how does that jive with Rebecka saying that she was only spanked once or twice as a child??? I think I'm remembering that correctly - R. was defending her parents and she said something about how spankings were rare. Spanking a child every day for two weeks is not "rare" - that's crazy. And it also seems ineffective to me - all the little girl would learn is to never let your parents catch you lying, since you'll get beaten more. Lovely.

Also, why not have her learn to repair whatever she damaged? Or have her earn the money to replace the wall hanging? You know, actual life lessons, rather than a beating? But what do I know...

[acutexenophobia]

I was spanked a grand total of two times. Once for running off in a crowded place without my parents. And once for running into the road. My dad said he hated doing it. But he said they were things that could've hurt me more severely than his hand. And that's why he did it. I never ran off without them or into the road again. I definitely think there are a few, very few, circumstances in which you should spank. I mean, had my dad not done that, I may have been hit by a car or kidnapped. I think with those as an alternative, I'm glad he spanked me. But any other time I misbehaved, I was put in time out, had privileges away or was grounded.

[Koala]

God help the poor children who were unfortunate enough to be born to Michael and Debbie Pearl....and the countless others who have been harmed by their "teachings". The Pearls are the pure definition of evil.

[doggie]

Debrand if you thought they had changed I have a bridge for sale sicne you seem to be gullible :lol:

No way they would ever change. and the two weeks of spanking was pointless and cruel. but I am sure they were not the only ones the child got every day.

[Koala]

She was 5 years old....I could absolutely vomit.

[mirele]

Hell's not hot enough yet for these people.**

**I don't believe in hell.

[Koala]

Hell's not hot enough yet for these people.**

**I don't believe in hell.

Neither do I, and I totally agree with you. Debbi and Michael get such a high on hurting people smaller that them. It's a damn shame they don't give it a whirl with someone their own size. Monsters...

[TheDarkSideLuke]

THATS HORRIBLE!

One time I confessed a lie to my Daddy when I was six and I knew I was going to get a spanking. My parents were firm about spankings. But he said something that has stuck with me pretty much ever since. He said, 'Jesus teaches that if we confess sins, he forgives us. You confessed your sin, and now I'm going to forgive you, because I want to be like Jesus.'

Ok, I know, I know, religious people aren't popular here, but if a parent is going to deal with the character of their children in some way, it should be this. Beating your kids when their heart is right is just... awful. It's not even good when their heart is wrong, but it can at least teach kids that their are consequences. I would rather be spanked as a child than have to go through drug addiction or something far worse.

[Koala]

One of my favorite quotes on lying:

Robert Ingersoll~

"When your little child tells a lie, do not rush at him as though the world were about to go into bankruptcy. A tyrant father will have liars for his children; do you know that? A lie is born of tyranny upon the one hand and weakness upon the other, and when you rush at a poor little boy with a club in your hand, of course he lies.

I thank thee, Mother Nature, that thou hast put ingenuity enough in the brain of a child, when attacked by a brutal parent, to throw up a little breastwork in the shape of a lie.

When one of your children tells a lie, be honest with him; tell him that you have told hundreds of them yourself. Tell him it is not the best way; that you have tried it. "

[Koala]

THATS HORRIBLE!

One time I confessed a lie to my Daddy when I was six and I knew I was going to get a spanking. My parents were firm about spankings. But he said something that has stuck with me pretty much ever since. He said, 'Jesus teaches that if we confess sins, he forgives us. You confessed your sin, and now I'm going to forgive you, because I want to be like Jesus.'

Ok, I know, I know, religious people aren't popular here, but if a parent is going to deal with the character of their children in some way, it should be this. Beating your kids when their heart is right is just... awful. It's not even good when their heart is wrong, but it can at least teach kids that their are consequences. I would rather be spanked as a child than have to go through drug addiction or something far worse.

How does spanking prevent drug addiction?

[TheDarkSideLuke]

How does spanking prevent drug addiction?

Just that the psychological affect of 'do something wrong and you will experience physical pain'. It's true for adults, and it should be true for kids to some degree. If kids live in a world where no bad deed ever resulted in physical pain, they would end up trying all kinds of things where they've been warned of physical pain, but have no psychological reason not to try it. I had an uncle who was in the hospital for drug addiction, so it's the first thing that came to my mind.

[Koala]

Just that the psychological affect of 'do something wrong and you will experience physical pain'. It's true for adults, and it should be true for kids to some degree. If kids live in a world where no bad deed ever resulted in physical pain, they would end up trying all kinds of things where they've been warned of physical pain, but have no psychological reason not to try it. I had an uncle who was in the hospital for drug addiction, so it's the first thing that came to my mind.

I would argue that it's terribly damaging for a child to experience intentional "physical pain" at the hands of an adult who should be loving them.

I would certainly argue that the children of non-spankers don't turn out as wild, out of control drug addicts as a result of having parents who didn't physically discipline them. I mean really....

Surely you see that there are MANY other (much more productive) ways to teach a child, other than spanking.

[Childless]

My husband and I agreed that we were not going to spank our son. I want him to learn right from wrong and its wrong to hit people. How can you deplore violence while being violent? It makes no sense to me and I can guarantee it won't make sense to a child. Instead, the punishment should fit the crime. If he damages or destroys something, he works to pay for it. If he disobeys his parents and looses their trust, he gets privleges taken away until he regains that trust. Those punishments will teach a child more than a beating will.

[Koala]

My husband and I agreed that we were not going to spank our son. I want him to learn right from wrong and its wrong to hit people. How can you deplore violence while being violent? It makes no sense to me and I can guarantee it won't make sense to a child. .

I totally agree with you.

[celestial]

Have you seen this article, also from the Pearl's website?

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/ge ... ll-things/

WHAT WAS A 6 YEAR OLD DOING DRIVING HER YOUNGER SIBLINGS AROUND IN A GOLF CART UNSUPERVISED???

So many things wrong here... :o

[Lily]

People like the Pearls make me want to believe in hell just so I believe they'll some day actually be punished for these atrocities.

[debrand]

Have you seen this article, also from the Pearl's website?

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/ge ... ll-things/

WHAT WAS A 6 YEAR OLD DOING DRIVING HER YOUNGER SIBLINGS AROUND IN A GOLF CART UNSUPERVISED???

So many things wrong here... :o

When I first read that, I didn't realize that the little girl was only six years old!

[Olivia]

When one of your children tells a lie, be honest with him; tell him that you have told hundreds of them yourself. Tell him it is not the best way; that you have tried it. "

I love that!

DH and I don't have children yet, so I'm not going to say "Oh, I'll never spank" because maybe, in extreme circumstances we would, if a child did something that endangered their life or absolutely wouldn't listen. But, I hate the idea and something about hitting my own child seems unnatural (though perhaps it's because I just lost my first pregnancy, and right now I can't imagine anything but cuddling the baby-that-should-have-been in my arms). I know I resented being spanked as a kid - which only happened a few times - but I also resented being yelled and screamed at equally. I hope we can learn to parent patiently without yelling or spanking, and DH and I agree on that goal, but I just have no clue what actually parenting will be like.

That aside, I just don't understand the Pearls' reaction to multiple children dying. They said something that was perhaps misconstrued to advocate beating children to death (leaving aside the cruelty of their methods -- does a five-year-old even remember actually doing what they did almost a month ago to merit a spanking today?). How can they not be guilt-stricken, horrified, and doing everything they can to prevent this from happening again -- unless they don't actually give a damn about these children. Sad to say, I think that's the case.

[emmiedahl]

I hate to resurrect old matters, but I just wanted to add that a study in 1999 found that children who are spanked are twice as likely to become substance abusers as well as more likely to have anxiety disorders, depression, and antisocial behavior. The study was published in the Canadian Medical Association journal by Dr. Harriet MacMillan.

[Austin]

One of my favorite quotes on lying:

Robert Ingersoll~

"When your little child tells a lie, do not rush at him as though the world were about to go into bankruptcy. A tyrant father will have liars for his children; do you know that? A lie is born of tyranny upon the one hand and weakness upon the other, and when you rush at a poor little boy with a club in your hand, of course he lies.

I thank thee, Mother Nature, that thou hast put ingenuity enough in the brain of a child, when attacked by a brutal parent, to throw up a little breastwork in the shape of a lie.

When one of your children tells a lie, be honest with him; tell him that you have told hundreds of them yourself. Tell him it is not the best way; that you have tried it. "

Some of the most deceitful people I have ever known are people that were raised very strictly, with spanking hanging over their heads as a constant possibility. Many of these people are fundies or fundie-lites. I think many respond to this sort of upbringing by becoming very accomplished liars, which I think is a fairly reasonable response to being afraid all of the time of being hit.

[Letgo]

I recently checked out the Pearls' book, To Train Up a Child. I could not even read much of it and I am tempted not to return the book. They spank 7 month old babies for willfull behavior. 7 months! They just know the baby is being defiant and asserting his or her will. It is crazy. They advocate being consistent, which is good, but THEY NEVER OVERLOOK ANYTHING. Every single act of not obeying happily and instantly needs correcting. They choose to make everything a battle. And they do it to other people's children! I was astounded. Why would anyone have them babysit if they had any clue about their methods? The Pearls even tell their friends ahead of time that they will discipline the children. And when they do, naturally it cures the child of defiance.

They claim they taught their children to respect water by either letting them fall into a pond or pool or by pushing them in. But all of them learned to swim by age four (probably would have been beaten if they hadn't) and none were afraid of water. Therefore, this will work for all children. Just let them fall in and see what happens.

When I read the book, I kept thinking that they would have beaten one of my kids to death. He was that difficult. Beatings would have been a daily event, multiple times a day. No way could he have survived the Pearls. He did the same things over and over, regardless of the consequences. Nothing worked; we tried isolation, spanking, removing privileges, reward systems, counseling, positive reinforcement, etc. The Pearls would have finally met the one child they could not cure!

Awful book.

[almostfundylyte]

I was spanked as a child, quite often, and lying about doing something wrong was always 2 spankings. Guess what? I became a damn good liar.

[sparrow]

'Jesus teaches that if we confess sins, he forgives us. You confessed your sin, and now I'm going to forgive you, because I want to be like Jesus.'

That's really sweet. I'm going to remember that when I have kids.

Beating your kids when their heart is right is just... awful.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

[raineymott]

One time I confessed a lie to my Daddy when I was six and I knew I was going to get a spanking. My parents were firm about spankings. But he said something that has stuck with me pretty much ever since. He said, 'Jesus teaches that if we confess sins, he forgives us. You confessed your sin, and now I'm going to forgive you, because I want to be like Jesus.'

That is really cool! In my house you NEVER confessed anything to mom or dad because you would ALWAYS get a spanking, no matter what.

One of my favorite quotes on lying:

Robert Ingersoll~

"When your little child tells a lie, do not rush at him as though the world were about to go into bankruptcy. A tyrant father will have liars for his children; do you know that? A lie is born of tyranny upon the one hand and weakness upon the other, and when you rush at a poor little boy with a club in your hand, of course he lies.

I thank thee, Mother Nature, that thou hast put ingenuity enough in the brain of a child, when attacked by a brutal parent, to throw up a little breastwork in the shape of a lie.

When one of your children tells a lie, be honest with him; tell him that you have told hundreds of them yourself. Tell him it is not the best way; that you have tried it. "

That is a great quote!!

My husband and I agreed that we were not going to spank our son. I want him to learn right from wrong and its wrong to hit people. How can you deplore violence while being violent? It makes no sense to me and I can guarantee it won't make sense to a child. Instead, the punishment should fit the crime. If he damages or destroys something, he works to pay for it. If he disobeys his parents and looses their trust, he gets privleges taken away until he regains that trust. Those punishments will teach a child more than a beating will.

Yeah, I don't want to spank as a routine punishment either. I don't want to say "never", but as someone else said, *perhaps* only in EXTREME situations.

Some of the most deceitful people I have ever known are people that were raised very strictly, with spanking hanging over their heads as a constant possibility. Many of these people are fundies or fundie-lites. I think many respond to this sort of upbringing by becoming very accomplished liars, which I think is a fairly reasonable response to being afraid all of the time of being hit.

I was spanked as a child, quite often, and lying about doing something wrong was always 2 spankings. Guess what? I became a damn good liar.

Ha, yeah. Spanking me only got me to figure out ways to get around the rules. I always got caught sooner or later, and just devised better ways. Like, I wasn't supposed to talk to boys...so guess what I did, I renamed all the boys in my IM list and phone contacts to girl names. ;) I lied to my mom a LOT about who I was talking to.

Also regarding spanking very young children...I wrote a post on my blog about my dad spanking my younger siblings when they wouldn't swallow their food. It was the one thing that made me *this* close to defying my dad in front of everyone because it was just so MEAN...I loved these little ones like my own and he would just spank and spank and spank them because they didn't understand the word "swallow" and didn't like the food on their plate. It makes me angry to think about it!! :x