Zack Bates is courting!

[marmalade]

Kelly also posted that they wouldn't marry until Zach had finished "his college." What college? The only member of the Bates family I've heard about attending classes is Erin. Do I smell another case of College Minus here? Even so, he still has to take upper division classes *somewhere* even if it's at an online, unaccredited school.

Between this and the Reiths losing a member of their band err....ministry err....family livelihood with no child to replace her in the act, I don't see them marrying for quite some time, at least a year.

I wonder if they'll go the "short engagement" route, as the Duggars suggest in their book, implying that by this time of the relationship that the guy is a horndog and needs to get some ASAP.

[silverspoons]

Kelly also posted that they wouldn't marry until Zach had finished "his college." What college? The only member of the Bates family I've heard about attending classes is Erin. Do I smell another case of College Minus here? Even so, he still has to take upper division classes *somewhere* even if it's at an online, unaccredited school.

Between this and the Reiths losing a member of their band err....ministry err....family livelihood with no child to replace her in the act, I don't see them marrying for quite some time, at least a year.

I wonder if they'll go the "short engagement" route, as the Duggars suggest in their book, implying that by this time of the relationship that the guy is a horndog and needs to get some ASAP.

I think the Bates brought up college minus or something simliar before the Duggars did. I remember Kelly talking about new computers and mentioning classes beyond high school.

If Sarah has tour dates till the end of the year and the band is only 4 people, I would think she would have to keep those commitments so maybe a longer courtship. It will be interesting to see how it will work out since she travels so much with her music and he is in local politics(so I asume he has to be in town for meetings).

[ophelia]

maybe they'll have some kind of "modern" fundie relationship.. we'll see!

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I think the Bible Study by Skype thing is pretty wide-spread in courtship land. I guess they get to see each others face and her their voice ....pretty racy for folks who rarely see a non-relative.

Zach could simply be doing a normal online degree--there are a lot of them these days and Christian Universities offer them, too. Not all are useless [i know I work for a university that offers some.]

I think I posted before that I wouldn't be surprised if Zack joins her family on the road when possible. It has to be more exciting than running a chain saw all day [when there is even work for that....]

[rural juror]

According to their website, Zach is getting a degree in History and Criminal Justice and Michaella is getting an English degree, both online of course.

[GeoBQn]

Most of their phone calls involve doing their Bible study together over the phone. The rest of the time they send texts and both families have enjoyed being close and reading the texts together. Zach is excited to include us and usually runs to find us to share anything we’ve missed. I think it elevates the enthusiasm and the family closeness!

Studying the Song of Songs could get pretty hot and heavy ("Her breasts are like two fawns . . .") But I bet that SoS is one of the books of the Bible that they conveniently "forget" to teach their kids.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I know there's a lot of snarking about online degrees--much of it deserved. But, I work in a university setting that offers these and they are not all terrible. CLEP tests are normal--and in some schools you can get "life credits" too. As the economy has gotten worse our online enrollments are SOARING as people look for a way to further their education. I guess, I'm HAPPY--especially for Michaela--that they are getting some sort of further education. The Bates parents ARE college graduates. I do wish they could have more freedom of choice, but they don't and they're hardly the only kids in that boat. Christian Colleges are LOADED with kids who are told "if we're paying this is where you are going." Many kids are told if their folks pay then they have to live at home, etc.

It sounds to me like Zack may be aiming for law school. Since we have no idea what his grades are, I'd say he certainly has a shot at it if he does it right. Michaela--how many other QF/P girls even get to study beyond "high school" (in quotes because age 14 would be more like it). I'll give you that her literature degree would probably be more appropriately labeled "Classic Literature" and that she'll never read Norman Mailer or even Waiting for Godot, but it is something.

Ok, done ranting!! :naughty: It's been a very tough week in the Hopewell Home with the teenagers and their army of friends!! Back to being nice now :)

[L avvocato]

@sparrow ... yes!! This is all I have been thinking about ... Ben Folds! (La da da da, la da da, la da da) Zak and Sara ....

[ems]

I don't truly understand the "pieces of your heart" stuff, but my best guess is that you could spend time thinking "what if?" about anything previous, instead of being happy with who you married. So if kiss a boy when you're 13 and don't marry him, then you whenever you're mad at your current husband, you might wonder if that last boy would have been a better husband and if you made a mistake by not marrying him. It seems like the fundies' biggest fear is doubt or questioning about anything, and for some reason they can't imagine anyone thinking "Hmm, I wonder if I should have married Bobby instead? No, now that I think about it I'm glad I married the one that I'm with." But what they don't realize is that avoiding all contact won't remove the potential for doubt. There will still be missed opportunities, choices, and even break-ups. In fact, I think the courtship style brings up a lot more doubts, because nobody has any chance to actually explore their options and determine what doesn't work for them. In the real world, Jana might go on a few dates with Zach and they would decide they're not compatible, and he'd end up marrying someone else. But now they'll have no way of ever knowing if things would have worked out between them. It seems like the fundie idea is that any choices are bad, because you might regret the choice you made.

One of the things I've noticed about their courtship beliefs is that they seem to believe that GOD has already pre-destined each person's spouse. So if you give "pieces of your heart" to someone who is not your God-intended spouse, you've in-a-way committed adultery...and if you date you aren't trusting God to reveal your mate in his timing or something. I dunno, it doesn't make sense to me...

[Letgo]

One of the things I've noticed about their courtship beliefs is that they seem to believe that GOD has already pre-destined each person's spouse. So if you give "pieces of your heart" to someone who is not your God-intended spouse, you've in-a-way committed adultery...and if you date you aren't trusting God to reveal your mate in his timing or something. I dunno, it doesn't make sense to me...

This is absolutely true. They definitely think this way. I have been told more than once that if a guy kisses a girl to whom he is not married then he has kissed someone else's wife. The couple could have been 12 at the time of the kiss, but she was the wife of another! I had a relative tell me that he feels guilty about girls he dated in middle school and high school because he was with another man's wife. I pointed out that no one was married at the time so that was not the case. But it was to him.

Do you think this logic work with other situations? If I plan to be a doctor someday, can I operate now?