Zack Bates is courting!

[darkplumaged]

...As for Zach, I think I was the only woman on the planet who never found him attractive; kind of a lunkhead, IMO. My husband is about Gil's height, but he's very slender (the bastard can still wear old clothes he hasn't gotten rid of since he moved in almost 18 years ago). With my thyroid problems, my weight is slowly but surely creeping up to his. Not good for the ego AT ALL. At any rate, I don't like short and stocky, or average, bloated and so FAT you look 5 months pregnant (looking at YOU, Smuggar).

You're not alone. These days, my husband weighs a bit less than I do... and he's three inches taller. :angry-banghead:

I remember people on TWOP used to go on about the hotness of Zach. This is the first picture I've seen of him, and I'm not impressed. I mean, he's OK, but chunkier than I expected.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Oh, I'm not saying anything would happen to them! I'm more thinking of what their reactions would be. How well would they be able to "keep sweet" and how often would the be shouting "Nike" and that sort of thing.

"Nike" wouldn't be a major issue in the hoods of Detroit. It's a jeans and sweatshirts kind of town unless you're there while school is in session, in which case you'll see swarms of teenagers of both genders in white collared shirts with navy blue Docker type pants (except they'll be a cheap knock-off brand, not real Dockers). In other words, they'll be dressed exactly like the fundie boys! There is one magnet high school for girls where the uniform colors are pink tops and black pants, but I've never seen any Nike-worthy outfits coming out of that building.

It would be interesting if the fundies encountered one of the local prostitutes. Every one I've ever walked by that was coherent enough to speak has said hello in a friendly way. But a lot of them are so strung out, they look like they're about to keel over and die. I wonder if the boys' ALERT academy training would come in handy?

[demgirl]

As far as I can tell, when you date you have lots of sex, get pregnant, have an abortion, do drugs, disobey your parents, drop out of school and vote for Obama, but if you court, then you go to heaven.

HA!

That's the funniest thing I've read in ages. Also, it should be the motto for the Maxwell family conferences. Itt pretty much sums up the entirety of their lecture.

[zcccrv]

I don't find Zach attractive in the slightest. And I was always more about Brenda than Kelly so his lady also doesn't impress me. But they do look nice together.

I always wonder about fundies who, like Maxwells, preach how giving freedom to your kids results in a fore mentioned deviations. Have they really never met/heard about/read about kids who turned out great without being guided by the hand? Or do they think it's just a matter of time before it all happens- smoking pot at 70 and other equally horrible things?

They truly don't get the concept of freedom. It doesn't mean: go and do the worst things just because you can, it means: go and do whatever you think is right.

[Swamptribe]

They truly don't get the concept of freedom. It doesn't mean: go and do the worst things just because you can, it means: go and do whatever you think is right.

Nope, they don't. What they are about is control.

[xReems]

What bothers me the most is how these fundies make it sound like dating is a horrible thing and how anybody who dates falls into the "crazy sex, baby popping, pre-marriage, giving pieces of your heart away" category. I don't get how having chaperons around you 24/7 to make sure you don't do anything "bad" is going to help you in getting to know your significant other. I know if my little sister was with my boyfriend and I all the time, I would have had such a hard time getting to know him on a personal level. These fundies are such hypocrites with this whole courtship crap.

-We've heard Josh talk about how with dating, you're giving pieces of your heart away and by the time you find that right person, all you have is a little piece to give them; however, courtship has the same thing. If it doesn't work out, it's the Lord's calling that it wasn't the right time. I love how if you throw in "God" into the whole mix, then it's ok to break off a courtship. Doesn't it mean you've already given a piece of your heart away. Someone posted on here that Amy confirmed Josh was "engaged" before, so that means Anna doesn't have his whole heart then, right?

By the way, I finally looked at the picture of Zach and that girl together-the most awkward looking picture, in my opinion. They just look like friends, posing for a picture. Maybe they're gonna follow the "6inch rule" and refrain from hand sex because it could give Zach lustful thoughts and we definitely do not want that. No hand babies until after marriage..or later that night. It reminds me of Josh proposing to Anna and giving her a side hug. d'awwww, how romantic!

[moreorlessnu]

When Sarah's family visited the Bates and played for them, it was obvious that Sarah and her sisters have an emotional connection. In contrast, that connection seems lacking among some of the older Duggar sisters. Jana is affectionate to the little ones and the younger boys, but seems distant toward the older girls. Jill is warm and friendly to all, but seems like she is like that toward even those she just met. There doesn't seem to be a heightened warmness toward the other older girls. Jessa and Jinger are like two best friends, but also don't seem so connected to any of the older girls. All of the girls seem very emotionally connected to Grandma Duggar, and are warm toward Joy-Anna. Not so much toward each other.

[lilah]

Reith's are one of the smallest fundie families, only four kids? Are they gothardites and not allowed to adopt more or something? It seems weird. It looks like they are observing the 6 inch rule, at least based on how they are posed.

I bet Jana and Jill were hoping for a Bates betrothal since that's the only family we regularly see them socialize with.

[bananacat]

Could this be why Jana has been so blue, and in the background the past year or so? Could she have been secretly pining away for Zach?

If this is the case, it would be SO ironic that Jana gave away a piece her heart without ever dating or straying from their allegedly superior lifestyle.

[moreorlessnu]

Good point, Bananacat!

Is there any chance there's a strategy to space out weddings so as to boost ratings when interest in the family begins to lag?

After Josh became engaged, Jana was positively beaming when she said she had been praying for Josh to find someone. One good reason to pray for Josh and to be so happy about his engagement is that Jana would be next! Since Josh's courtship, engagement and marriage moved along fairly quickly, there was hope that Jana would be similarly situated within 1 to 1.5 years.

But, Anna became pregnant 4 months after they were married, and then became pregnant again when Mack was around 1 year old. In between, there was roughly a 1 year ordeal of Josie's premature birth and the subsequent relocation of the family. There hasn't been a lull in the action. Meanwhile Zach Bates done up and found himself another woman.

[3 is enough]

Or maybe Jana was beaming at Josh's wedding because her pompous ass of a brother was moving out.

[O Latin]

I think the idea with courtship is that you don't give any of your heart away until you're actually married. So if the courtship doesn't work out, you haven't given any pieces away.

[bozgirl14]

I don't know that any of us have seen anything that proves Zack is a nice guy other than the few Duggar episodes where he's opened his mouth and the video clips of him during his candidacy. He seemed okay in those. Actually, I suppose we could be less polite and say:

In ten years you Zack will be a pompous, smug, cheesy, self-righteous bastard talking about how tolerant and wonderful your family is while looking down your nose at anyone not following your ATI standards. Your favorite pasttime will be "your children" and you will have swelled to looking 9 months pregnant all year round. You will drag your children and wife out to perform for "love offerings" while sharing your vast knowledge on the wonders of patriarchy. You Sarah will be popping out your 9th child, which will quickly become the buddy of one of your older children, be glassy eyed and prone to talking in a baby voice to everyone, occasionally wondering where your career went as you stuff feelings of resentment down long enough to remember to gaze adoringly at your husband during every vacuous pronouncement he makes and keeping sweet.

Mazel tov.

[Austin]

I never find fundie courtships to be good news, because I know that the precious little freedom that poor young woman may have being single is soon to disappear. Now she'll have to live under full headship (more so than her father, since his is diluted somewhat by the other siblings), but she'll have to have that pasty white guy pronging her all the time. Unless she escapes, her life is over.

+1

The only good news, IMO, is when one of these young women successfully makes a break for it.

[camdendayton]

FWIW the exclamation point in the subject here was supposed to be sarcastic I agree with an ebil, godless professor of mine who said he found divorces happier than marriages because while no one NEEDS to get married there are people who NEED to get get divorced. Of course I'm pretty sure he's never met a patriarch of a fundie fam!

Though being pro-sex as I am I'm kind of excited whenever I know 2 people are going to have their 1st chance to lose their V-card. It's just a shame they won't be using birth control.

:angelic-halofell:

[lilah]

Good point, Bananacat!

Is there any chance there's a strategy to space out weddings so as to boost ratings when interest in the family begins to lag?

After Josh became engaged, Jana was positively beaming when she said she had been praying for Josh to find someone. One good reason to pray for Josh and to be so happy about his engagement is that Jana would be next! Since Josh's courtship, engagement and marriage moved along fairly quickly, there was hope that Jana would be similarly situated within 1 to 1.5 years.

But, Anna became pregnant 4 months after they were married, and then became pregnant again when Mack was around 1 year old. In between, there was roughly a 1 year ordeal of Josie's premature birth and the subsequent relocation of the family. There hasn't been a lull in the action. Meanwhile Zach Bates done up and found himself another woman.

Well I had a long and thought out post about duggars and courtship but then my computer ate it. phooey.

I think Josh got married very early into the show, he was already courting when the show started. They had had a few TLC specials and been on the news a few times but they hadn't really become that famous. Now that the Duggars are a household name, have a huge fan following, gotten the reputation for being very world I wonder if there are fewer fundie families wanting to marry into that family. Anna has been a very good sport about being filmed during some very intimate moments in her life like giving birth (twice!) but then what other choice did she have?

Josh has said previously that he actively pursued Anna, he saw her at Homeschool conference and thought she was pretty, so he asked he dad to set up the courtship with her dad. He set that ball rolling. John David is much more shy and reticent (and possibly less successful to courtship advances?) so I don't see him being as active in his courtship but then he has his own business and home so at least he's got himself set up to be ready for a wife.

Jana/Jill/Jessa/Jinger don't ahve the freedom to tell their parents they want to get married, they have been trained to stay passive. They aren't even supposed to tell their parents their heart's desire, they're supposed to pray to God for their parents to magically read their minds or something. We all know that The duggars are reluctant to marry off the J-slaves for the obvious reason of needing the free labor to run their house. But also if they married some fundie guy from another state Jana/Jill/Jessa/Jinger would have to move to that state to live with him, and that would make shooting logistics much harder. I don't think any of them will start courting until the show is over.

[bananacat]

I think the idea with courtship is that you don't give any of your heart away until you're actually married. So if the courtship doesn't work out, you haven't given any pieces away.

I don't truly understand the "pieces of your heart" stuff, but my best guess is that you could spend time thinking "what if?" about anything previous, instead of being happy with who you married. So if kiss a boy when you're 13 and don't marry him, then you whenever you're mad at your current husband, you might wonder if that last boy would have been a better husband and if you made a mistake by not marrying him. It seems like the fundies' biggest fear is doubt or questioning about anything, and for some reason they can't imagine anyone thinking "Hmm, I wonder if I should have married Bobby instead? No, now that I think about it I'm glad I married the one that I'm with." But what they don't realize is that avoiding all contact won't remove the potential for doubt. There will still be missed opportunities, choices, and even break-ups. In fact, I think the courtship style brings up a lot more doubts, because nobody has any chance to actually explore their options and determine what doesn't work for them. In the real world, Jana might go on a few dates with Zach and they would decide they're not compatible, and he'd end up marrying someone else. But now they'll have no way of ever knowing if things would have worked out between them. It seems like the fundie idea is that any choices are bad, because you might regret the choice you made.

[PBrooke]

At the root of courting is insecurity - so it makes sense that teens might go for it, because they're at their most insecure. It's insecurity from the parents' perspective, too - insecurity in trusting that their children will make good, informed decisions. The parents have no faith that their child won't marry some evil incarnate, and they arrogantly think they can do a better job choosing a mate for their child than the child himself (or, more likely, herself). And of course, when the PARENTS mess up and the spouse DOES turn out to be horrible, well, then NO ONE could have seen it coming...

But from the perspective of the teen or young adult, it plays on a different kind of insecurity - that of comparison. Maybe the first time the boy sees me naked, he'll think of the other girl he's seen and compare me to her. What is the sex isn't as good, for her, as the last guy she slept with? It's the sort of thing that most people grow out of - but since these kids are either married off young or just plain emotionally immature, it stays paramount in importance.

[Buzzard]

I wonder if this will be included on the show. I actually feel happy for fundie girls getting married assuming they seem happy together. They've been raised all their lives to want this and depending a husband might be more relaxed then a father. Think of Josh and Anna's TV. I also think most people would prefer taking care of their own children then somebody else's.

The Duggars will DEFINITELY be at this wedding. I wonder where they will live, considering the families are so far, but she is an integral part of the family business.

From the Bateses site...

"She graciously agreed and we think he couldn’t have chosen a sweeter, more Godly young lady! "

Is that a dig at the duggars?

[moreorlessnu]

The Duggars will DEFINITELY be at this wedding.

Weren't some of the Bates kids in J&A's wedding party? They'll have to return the favor, no? Or, have at least one of the mad seamstresses (Anna? Jana?) in the wedding party to sew all the dresses.

[Feberin]

I think the only Bates in the wedding was Erin doing music. I don't think the wedding party was just the Duggars and Kellers.

[Buzzard]

Erin played the piano, I think one of the other girls may have played a harp. Otherwise, they were just in attendance.

As for a Duggar wedding, the next will be JD.

[moreorlessnu]

You're right. I'm shaking my head as to why I thought they were in the wedding party. The Bates family definitely was at the wedding but not in the wedding party.

[sparrow]

Yaaay! Something interesting to watch! According to the Bates's website, Zach Bates is courting Sarah Reith from the Southern Raised gospel group. She seems sweet. I'm excited for them. :)

[muffynbear]

I'm sorry, but how old is Zach's new lady? She looks several years older than him. Like, old enough to be his mother. I would have pegged her at 38.